Fulcrum Racing 5 LG Bearings

ayjaycee

Before I carry on, please note that I am NOT interested in any suggestions that I should either have bought handbuilt wheels instead of the wheels mentioned below or should buy them in the future. That said, I should be grateful for any practical advice that you good people might be able to offer.

I have had a pair of fulcrum Racing 5 LG wheels since March this year and they have probably done about 600 miles in all. They have performed faultlessly until now and, if I remember correctly, only been ridden in proper wet conditions a couple of times. Earlier this week I gave the bike they are on a good wash down and oiling in preparation for it's winter hibernation. I took both wheels off and washed them down and gave them a very 'gentle' hose down afterwards. I then left the bike for a couple of days before I put the wheels back on and noticed that the front wheel was reluctant to turn and made a noise when it did so. I therefore span it a few times and the noise disappeared but it still did not turn as smoothly as it did before. I am no expert on this stuff and have never had anything similar happen but can only guess that it is an issue with the bearing.

Although, in theory, I could probably return the wheel to Wiggle it would be a real pain in the ares to do so (I bought it there because they price-matched a much cheaper German site). However, if this is what you might call a routine service job, I am not adverse to sorting it out myself and would therefore be interested in any other forum members who have had similar issue, particularly with Fulcrums, and what they did about it. Assuming I am right about the bearing, I should also be grateful for any advice on how easy (or difficult) it is to replace and if there are any special tools required to do the job. I did a quick google and saw some recommendations that you need a special 'bearing extractor' but others that say you can do without.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Bobbinogs

Sounds like you have washed the grease out of the bearings or effectively washed something into the bearings. The good news is that they are cup/cone so can be serviced fairly easily (I did my Zonda wheels a few months ago and it probably took about 15-20 mins per wheel). Like all jobs, the right tools help (you won't need many, just the odd cone spanner and possibly an allen key or two) and the right materials (I use some Finishline Teflon grease but many other brands will work, despite the marketing BS it really won't make too much difference).

If you ride through the winter then it is probably worth googling. Plenty of vids on youtube that will show you the concept (there is a very good GCN vid). Might be worth also finding the Fulcrum specific tech spec prior to starting.

There is a bit of a knack getting the preload tension right but that can be sorted through trial and error without damaging the bearings as long as you are not too heavy handed.

Failing that, it won't cost much at your LBS. I don't think a return to Wiggle is going to work as they should say something like "wear and tear".

mercia_man

The modern Campag/Fulcrum cup and cone hubs are really easy to dismantle, grease and adjust. You don't need cone spanners or any special tools. Adjustment for play is done by a locking collar held in place by a tiny 2.5mm allen screw.

If you want to dismantle and regrease, pop off the plastic outer hub covers with a knife blade, unscrew the axle locking nut with a 5mm allen key, countering the rotation of the axle with another 5mm allen key in the othe side of the axle. Then loosen the adjusting collar with a 2.5mm allen key, and unscrew the collar totally. Press the axle towards the other side and remove the ring and cone upon which the collar presses. The axle will pull out from the other side, enabling you to access the caged bearings for greasing. They are protected by plastic seals which you can pop out with a screwdriver. Remember the order in which everything came out, reassemble and adjust. This is for the Record and Neutron hubs on my bikes but I'm pretty sure the process is identical for your Fulcrums. It's the same process with the rear wheel, except that the axle comes out complete with the freehub. Reinserting the axle involves pressing the pawls in so they locate properly - I just use my fingers for that.

Adjusting for play is done by holding the axle steady with your 5mm allen key and tightening the adjustment collar by small increments - I do this by leaving the 2.5mm allen key in as a small lever - until the hub spins freely with just a tiny bit of play which will be taken out when you tighten the quick release.

This sounds complicated but it really is easy once you try to do it - much easier than the older style Shimano hubs on my and my wife's other bikes which need cone spanners. Campag have a pdf on the internet and there are also videos on Youtube. Campag do suggest using a torque wrench and a 2.5mm allen screwdriver but I've never found any need.

Edit: Just spotted a Fulcrum pdf on internet for your wheels which confirms the above and goes into great detail with pix.

ayjaycee

Thanks for the replies. Just a couple more questions, if I may.

For grease, I am assuming that the 'TF2' Lithium Grease that I already have (in a pot) will not do the job and that I will need to buy the Teflon grease referred to above and also a grease gun of some description to get it into the bearing (I say grease gun as I can't see any other way of doing it without making a real mess!). Am I right?

Mercia Man, Is this the Fulcrum PDF that you refer to:
http://www.fulcrumwheels.com/system/documents/files/014-FRONT_HUB_ASSEMBLY-DISASSEMBLY_23-01.pdf
Again, thanks for the help.

bbrap

No need for an actual grease gun, an old syringe will do just as well for squirting it where you want it to go. In an emergency you can even use a plastic bag (thickish plastic), put some grease in, roll it to force the grease into a corner, snip off the tip of the corner and use it like an icing bag.

mercia_man

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19741402#p19741402]ayjaycee[/url] wrote:

Thanks for the replies. Just a couple more questions, if I may.

For grease, I am assuming that the 'TF2' Lithium Grease that I already have (in a pot) will not do the job and that I will need to buy the Teflon grease referred to above and also a grease gun of some description to get it into the bearing (I say grease gun as I can't see any other way of doing it without making a real mess!). Am I right?

Mercia Man, Is this the Fulcrum PDF that you refer to:
http://www.fulcrumwheels.com/system/documents/files/014-FRONT_HUB_ASSEMBLY-DISASSEMBLY_23-01.pdf
Again, thanks for the help.

No that's not the one. Looks like an older model. Don't know how to cut and paste a link but go onto fulcrumwheels.com and select Racing 5 LG. That has downloadable documents for front and rear hubs. If this is yours - the most up to date version - it doesn't require spanners and has cup and cone fully serviceable bearings rather than cartridges.

As for grease, I use Finish Line or Weldtite Teflon as they are readily available locally. I've got a cheap mini grease gun from Halfords which makes application a bit easier but I've previously greased bearings in situ by putting small blobs on the end of a small screwdriver and applying. If you want to do a thorough job, pop out the seals, take out the bearings, clean with a solvent and grease the cups and the balls. Alternatively you leave bearings and seal in place and it's easy enough to apply grease to the bearings with a grease gun, screwdriver or finger.

All this sounds complicated but I much prefer servicing cup and cone hubs than cartridge ones. It's really not a hard job, just a bit fiddly and time consuming to get the hub adjustment exactly right. Do this say once a year and your hubs and your traditional cup and cone bearings will last for ever (unlike cheap the cheap cartridge hubs which make up most of the market). The Record hubs on my tourer are coming up for 15 years old and they are still like new.

Edit: having trouble with my internet link and downloading. But I found the pdf by googling Fulcrum Racing 5 LG hub adjustment. The website clearly states these wheels are an improved vesion over the previous model and have cup and cone hubs. I found a pdf for hub adjustment and assembly for cup and cone models but have to say it doesn't mention Racing 5. The older Racing 5 (non LG) appear to have cartridge hubs. So you need to establish first which ones you have and then follow the instructions accordingly. If your hubs have the adjustment collar with the 2.5mm allen screw they are easily serviced cup and cone models.

ayjaycee

Mercia Man, I think I found the Fulcrum document that you refer to and the pictures look just like my wheel - it's a pity that Fulcrum didn't bother to mention the 5LG in the applicability list! I have just got to find the rear wheel version now and I will be set.

You mentioned that you didn't know how to cut and paste to a post - if you are on Windows of some sort, it is literally just that - highlight the URL, right click on the mouse and select copy (or just control c). Then go to the place in the 'Post a Reply' box here on BR where you want the link and right click paste (or just control v). If you are using a mouse with a Mac, it's the same but I have always found cut and pasting on my ipad to be a real pain.

One final thing for anybody who can contribute - further down the line, I am likely to want to buy some new bearings - does anybody know what type (ie. reference number) they are and a good source? Also are ceramic bearings worth the extra cost in such a cheap wheel?

mercia_man

Ajaycee, I'm on an ipad. Managed once to cut and paste a link but can't remember what I did!

I too found the Fulcrum site confusing because it didn't mention your wheel on applicability list although the Fulcrum description of your wheel did say it had cup and cone hubs and carried a pic of such hubs with the adjusting collar. So if you do have such hubs (and it sounds like you do) that's good news because they are an upgrade on cartridge hubs and are so simple to adjust without special tools. The top end Campag/Fulcrum hubs are adjustable cup and cone, the low end are cartridge.

Replacement bearings (high quality balls held in a nylon cage) are £3.80 each from Ribble - HB-RE023. They last for ages. I wouldn't bother with ceramic, even for an expensive wheel.

I definitely recommend maintaining these hubs yourself. I was nervous the first time I tried it (around 15 years ago) as I was familiar with Shimano and older Campag hubs needing special cone spanners, but found these new design Campag hubs were a doddle to work on.

ayjaycee

just press your stylus / finger on th URL (address bar) and select copy from the box. To paste, press again where you want it to go and select paste.

mercia_man

Thanks for that. Will try it out!

Edit: It works!

ayjaycee

Mercia Man, Glad the C&P thing worked and that I could help somebody else for a change. As I said before, I always find it a real pain on my ipad to the point where I just don't bother any more and go straight to my laptop or desktop if I want to do anything more than plain typing.

Back to the bearing thing, I have been looking on line and am now even more confused (which isn't dufficult!) as my research seems to have opened up a whole new can of worms. As you rightly said, the Fulcrum Racing 5LGs are advertised very clearly by Fulcrum as having 'HIGH GRADE, TOP QUALITY STEEL BEARINGS WITH CUP AND CONE CONSTRUCTION' (there capital letters, not mine) but the bearings that I saw when the LBS dismantled my wheel looked like the 'cassette' type (although I confess that I didn't look too closely). Indeed, those that I have seen in the Fulcrum spares catalogue for 5LGs do not look much like the cup and cone bearings that I am familiar with either and nor do they look like those that you referred to on the Ribble site (ie. the Campagnolo HB-RE023).

Unless anybody can offer any more advice, I think that's something that I will scratch my head over on another day and I will also see if I suffer from the same confusion when I come to look at the Mavic Aksiums on my other bike!

Again, many thanks for the advice. Wwhen the grease gun that I ordered arrives, I might give my fulcrum rear wheel a once over and have a good look at the bearings then.

cycleclinic

Don't the fulcrum 5 use cartridge bearings, I know the LG version uses the 17mm Axle but it is still on cartridge bearings I think. If they bearings are worn it will be obvious by turning the axle. Simply knock them out and replace. Remember fulcrum wheels have a bearing pre load adjuster check this is set properly first as if it is too tight the hub will not turn freely.

The problem is to the untrained eye the cup and cone bearing fulcrum uses looks like a cartridge bearing when assembled. But stick the Allen keys in the end caps and get the nds one undone. If there is a cone to remove then it is the cup and cone bearing kit that is needed or more grease. If there is no cone and the bearing feels rough when the hub is apart then it should be replaced as it is a non serviceable cartridge bearing.

ayjaycee

TCC, Thanks for the input. It's not your fault but I'm still a bit confused by this whole bearing thing!

According to the Fulcrum spare catalogue, the 5LG takes Campagnolo / Fulcrum R4-004 bearings which, as I said, look very much like cassettes to me - see here: http://www.mantel.com/uk/fulcrum-bearings-r4-004.
BUT the Fulcrum website definitely says that they use cup and cone - see towards the bottom of the page here: http://www.fulcrumwheels.com/en/collection/road/alu/products/racing-5-LG.

Your an expert on this stuff so if you can throw any light on this subject, I would be very grateful. I am particularly interested on the basis that at some point, I might well be wanting to buy some new bearings and would probably be looking at something that would hopefully be better than the OEM ones (ie. SKF) but to do that, I will have to be able to ID exactly the right thing to buy.

keef66

I suspect it's a copy / paste error on their website. AFAIK the cheaper wheelsets (racing 7, 5, Quattro) have always had cartridge bearings; cup and cone don't appear till you get up the range to Racing 3's and beyond. the spares catalogue confirms that.

ayjaycee

Keef, Thanks for that, I think you are correct in your supposition.

Unless anybody else knows different and on the basis that Fulcrum Racing 5 LGs are, indeed, fitted with cassette bearings (ie. the Campagnolo / Fulcrum R4-004), does anybody know whether an equivalent from SKF or other bearing manufacturer might be available and, if so, the reference or part number?

keezx

The bearings are cartridge type , but the hub has a possibility for play adjustment.
Question remains if they are standard or special cartridges.
Could not find any source stating that they are custom models though....
Personally , I wouldn't bother with expensive branded bearings and just wack in SKF 2RS ones with the correct dimensions.
Take them out and measure outer dia, inner dia. and thickness.
BTW, cartridge bearings can be cleaned and regreased if necessary......

cycleclinic

They will be a standard size. Before 2014 a 6001 bearing was used but when the change to the oversized alloy axle happened then soothing like a 6803 or 6903 bearing is used. I think it will be a 6903 bearing as that from memory is what is the fulcrum Quattro '.

rolf_f

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19743680#p19743680]ayjaycee[/url] wrote:

Keef, Thanks for that, I think you are correct in your supposition.

Unless anybody else knows different and on the basis that Fulcrum Racing 5 LGs are, indeed, fitted with cassette bearings (ie. the Campagnolo / Fulcrum R4-004), does anybody know whether an equivalent from SKF or other bearing manufacturer might be available and, if so, the reference or part number?

Cartridge, not cassette bearings please!

The bearing size is written on the plastic seals but a quick Google search should confirm what Cycleclinic says - pretty sure they are 6903. Get the 2RS variety - sealed both sides. Campag shamefully put single sealed bearings in as standard saving 0.1p and meaning you have to do the job you have to do much sooner than necessary.

Note, the rear freehub bearings (where the only cassette on your bike goes!) are a different size and a much harder job to fit (in particular to extract). I think the only issue on the front is working out how to dismantle the axle in the first place (irrc a very hard to spot circlip is where it starts) but it's pretty easy otherwise.

You can get the bearings for very little on Ebay - not sure if the SKF ones are worth the premium or not. Pack them with loads of grease. Water does get in past the bearings hence the lack of inner seals on the original bearings results in corrosion.

As for standard sizes - they are standard. Only the BB bearings in Campag tend to be needlessly bespoke and stupidly expensive.

Bobbinogs

mmm, this thread reminds me why I always go for cup/cone. I am quite disappointed in Fulcrum/Campag as the 5 LG were next on the list to replace my Zondas and that was partially because the Fulcrum/Campag website does clearly state the 5 LG is cup/cone:

http://www.fulcrumwheels.com/en/collection/road/alu/products/racing-5-LG

"HIGH GRADE, TOP QUALITY STEEL BEARINGS WITH CUP AND CONE CONSTRUCTION"

keezx

Nothing wrong with cartridge bearings IMO.
If you wear them out replace them for 2RS ones and chips money.
Replace cup and cones is virtually impossible because the parts are not for sale or stupid expensive (Campagnolo)

ayjaycee

Can I just thank everybody who commented on this subject. With to your inputs, I am fairly confident of doing the job myself when next needed and have also pinned down the type of bearing required - namely the the 6903-2RS cartridge (with apologies to Rolf for offending your sensibilities by calling them 'cassette!). My LBS confirms that fact and stocks them but charges £11 each for what seems to be the 'budget' type rather than SKF. I am all for supporting my LBS and do so whenever I can but a quick google tells me that is quite a mark up and probably more than I am willing to swallow.

In any event, thanks once again for the help - the forum comes up trumps again. Apologies in advance for seeking more help when I find that I have bit of my rear hub all over the place and no idea how to put it all back together properly!

keef66

Photograph it as you take it to bits and lay the parts out in the order that you remove them so it's easy to reverse the process

cycleclinic

Shops cannot buy bearings at the price sold online.

The only bearings I can buy at a price for which I can sell them at a senisble Competitive price are nbk. The price of skf bearing from the supplier are more expensive than the simply bearings price. As such I don't bother trying to keep higher quality bearing in stock and simply get them if I need them from simply bearings and not bother marking up.

It is not that shops fault. The 6903 bearings from I ride retail at around the price they quoted.

rolf_f

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19745385#p19745385]ayjaycee[/url] wrote:

I am all for supporting my LBS and do so whenever I can but a quick google tells me that is quite a mark up and probably more than I am willing to swallow.

They aren't specific bike components so I wouldn't lose so much sleep over a one off lapse of your standards! Consideration of my sensibilities gratefully appreciated!