keep rear gear cable working after wet and muddy rides?

ben-----

Getting fed up with my rear gear cable. I replaced it (inner and two outer sections) with a new one recently. Done two rides totalling about 100 miles, both in pretty wet and muddy conditions. To start with gears worked very well after cable change. Today, third ride since cable change, gears not working right; in order to change one gear up (towards smaller cog) the best way I found was to click the small lever twice, that would get it to next cog, then click the large lever once, to stop it some time later possibly changing to next smaller cog.

It's not the derailleur as when I indexed the gears before setting off today, with the cable unattached to the derailleur, the derailleur moved to the smallest cog no problem. Also when I indexed the gears today, with the cable detached, I pulled the inner cable backwards and forwards through the outer part near the derailleur, and it seemed fine.

Today's ride was a lot less wet and muddy, and by the end of the ride, after quite a long time, the gear changing problem had to a good extent fixed itself, behaving much better than to start with, but not quite right.

I can't keep putting new cables on all the time. What can I do to stop this problem?

(This is on a fairly old bike with 8 speed Shimano 105 if that makes any difference.)

Thanks.

Barbarossa

You know how to unhook the bit of outer that goes to the derailleur? Take the wheel off, push the derailleur inboard and you can unhook the cable from the chainstay and slide the outer forwards to oil the inner. Worth doing at least weekly during the winter.

I think that coated inners are prone to picking up grit - I stick with cheap inners on my winter bike.

You could consider full-length outers (one piece from the shifter to the RD) - quite common on cross bikes. Bellows at the RD end too.

Go Di2 - much more benefit on a winter mule than on a summer thoroughbred.

k-dog

Mudguards?

But, yeah you need to keep that rear loop from getting crud in it - some sort of seal at that point is probably the answer.

ben-----

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19738431#p19738431]Barbarossa[/url] wrote:

You know how to unhook the bit of outer that goes to the derailleur? Take the wheel off, push the derailleur inboard and you can unhook the cable from the chainstay and slide the outer forwards to oil the inner. Worth doing at least weekly during the winter.

Right, I didn't think oiling the cable was a good idea (for some reason).

I think that coated inners are prone to picking up grit - I stick with cheap inners on my winter bike.

I'm not using expensive cables. They're "Jagwire", I use quotes because they're probably not. They were £6.50 for a gear and brake set inner and outer. Chinese writing on bag.

You could consider full-length outers (one piece from the shifter to the RD) - quite common on cross bikes. Bellows at the RD end too.

What do you mean "Bellows at the RD end too"?

Go Di2 - much more benefit on a winter mule than on a summer thoroughbred.

I'd never been particularly keen on the general idea of Di2 (what does that stand for?). But I hadn't thought of that advantage in relation to it. Good point, will bear that in mind for future possible buying of new winter bike.

OK, thanks.

ben-----

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19738488#p19738488]k-dog[/url] wrote:

Mudguards?

Yes, Raceblade longs.

But, yeah you need to keep that rear loop from getting crud in it - some sort of seal at that point is probably the answer.

You think that's where the problem is? As I said I pulled the inner backwards and forwards through that bit and it seemed OK, but maybe it's not so easy to tell if there's a problem just by doing that, I don't know. If that's where the problem is then no, you can't tell from being able to easily pull it back and forwards.

Thanks.

arlowood

The "bellows" mentioned earlier is a gear cable boot - like this

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-x-Bike-V-Brake-Rubber-Boot-Cable-Noodles-/171029663312

Might be worth investing in a couple and fitting one to the rear cable loop at the end that fits into the chainstay cable stop

Realise that these are intended for V-brake cables but in the absence of any specific gear cable "boots" they might be worth a try

jermas

It won't be dirty cables with that little mileage, no matter what the weather. It might be the return springs on the derailleur being too weak, or more likely it's sticking a bit. Lubricate the derailleur pins and check it moves very freely in all directions. The shifters themselves might be sticking -spray with thin lube. Also check the final cable loop to the derailleur isn't too small -this can cause increased friction.

Lube cables with silicone oil/silicone grease periodically- much better than oil/standard grease (some wreck the cable liners and cause problems)

CiB

I'd never been particularly keen on the general idea of Di2 (what does that stand for?).

Digital Integrated Intelligence. Di2. It works very well and is pretty robust, not just a summer solution. You don't have to like the idea of electronics on a bike but that would also preclude using bike computers, Garmins & smart phones for navigation & ride stats.

Your issue sounds like everything is all full of crud. Have you ever cleaned the mech, properly? In that you've removed the chain, removed the mech from the bike, removed the jockey wheels and then given it all a thorough clean & relubed everything, then put it all back together? Probably not, if you didn't think oiling the cable was a good idea (for some reason).

Things need to be clean & lubed to work properly. Over time things stop being clean, and lube needs to be reapplied.

ElectronShepherd

CiB wrote:

You don't have to like the idea of electronics on a bike but that would also preclude using bike computers, Garmins & smart phones for navigation & ride stats.

Not knocking DI2, which is, I understand, generally very reliable, but the key difference between a DI2 failure and a bike computer / Garmin / smartphone failure is that when I'm 40 miles from home, if any of the bar-mounted gizmos fail, I can still ride home with a full choice of gears.

ben-----

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19738721#p19738721]arlowood[/url] wrote:

The "bellows" mentioned earlier is a gear cable boot - like this

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-x-Bike-V-Brake-Rubber-Boot-Cable-Noodles-/171029663312

Might be worth investing in a couple and fitting one to the rear cable loop at the end that fits into the chainstay cable stop

Realise that these are intended for V-brake cables but in the absence of any specific gear cable "boots" they might be worth a try

I see, right, thanks.

ben-----

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19738785#p19738785]jermas[/url] wrote:

It won't be dirty cables with that little mileage, no matter what the weather. It might be the return springs on the derailleur being too weak, or more likely it's sticking a bit. Lubricate the derailleur pins and check it moves very freely in all directions. The shifters themselves might be sticking -spray with thin lube. Also check the final cable loop to the derailleur isn't too small -this can cause increased friction.

Lube cables with silicone oil/silicone grease periodically- much better than oil/standard grease (some wreck the cable liners and cause problems)

I think you may be right in saying it's not the cables, as I went for a ride yesterday and the gears were really messed up. I think there's a problem in the shifter. Haven't looked into it yet but something's gone even more wrong now which would indicate it's not the cables.

ben-----

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19739530#p19739530]CiB[/url] wrote:

I'd never been particularly keen on the general idea of Di2 (what does that stand for?).

Digital Integrated Intelligence. Di2. It works very well and is pretty robust, not just a summer solution. You don't have to like the idea of electronics on a bike but that would also preclude using bike computers, Garmins & smart phones for navigation & ride stats.

The Di2 for winter bike to avoid wet/mud gear problems is a plus point about Di2 that I hadn't occurred to me until Barbarossa pointed it out and I really like that point.

Your issue sounds like everything is all full of crud. Have you ever cleaned the mech, properly? In that you've removed the chain, removed the mech from the bike, removed the jockey wheels and then given it all a thorough clean & relubed everything, then put it all back together? Probably not, if you didn't think oiling the cable was a good idea (for some reason).

Things need to be clean & lubed to work properly. Over time things stop being clean, and lube needs to be reapplied.

I had cleaned the drive chain and do pretty regularly. The derailleur is moving absolutely fine. I didn't think oiling gear cables was a good idea as I had read that somewhere when trying to find out if I should oil the cables or not some time ago. Picking up grit was the reason given I seem to remember. I shall be oiling gear cables inside the outer bits from now on. Thanks.

CiB

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19739582#p19739582]ElectronShepherd[/url] wrote:

CiB wrote:

You don't have to like the idea of electronics on a bike but that would also preclude using bike computers, Garmins & smart phones for navigation & ride stats.

Not knocking DI2, which is, I understand, generally very reliable, but the key difference between a DI2 failure and a bike computer / Garmin / smartphone failure is that when I'm 40 miles from home, if any of the bar-mounted gizmos fail, I can still ride home with a full choice of gears.

Quite, and when mine did fail suddenly 46 miles from home I had to phone home for the emergency lift. But it didn't negate the 3 & half years of really nice smooth slick consistent gear changes that I've enjoyed.

Anyhoo, this is ben's thread not a Di2 discussion.

g00se

This is what you want if you need to oil cables:

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/tools/cycling-tools/chain-lubricant/product/review-rock-n-roll-cable-magic-31090/

But it's getting hard to find at the moment without a UK distributor.

964cup

If it's the cable (and I agree that seems unlikely) you could do as I've done and use Nokon, with the inner running all the way to the cable guide under the BB. You get a snappier change as a side benefit.