Bikeradars tubs vs clinchers comparison (spoilers)
Comments
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Swapping wheels isn't a bad idea. Might try that. Bearings I think is nonsense - a) I can't see it making enough difference unless the bearings were hopelessly wrecked and b) at least one of my comparators is on the same CK hubs (and his are newer).Swap bikes next time, it might be you. Or swap wheels. Or everyone put in new bearings etc0 -
So, are we saying that the BR test is also rubbish, and that the tyres have nothing to do with it in that case either? What's your explanation for his 12 sec TT advantage, and/or for my observed descending advantage?No they don't.
I'm not saying the BR tests proves anything hands down, but at least in their test all the equipment and rider are the same, only changes are the tyres (and the wheels, slightly). In you 'test' everything is different, including the tyres.
Maybe you have an especially aerodynamic body shape. The ENVEs are probably more aero than the FFWDs, do you know your Cervelo is less aero, in those conditions, than the other bikes?
Of course, you might be on to something, but maybe not.0 -
964 Cup;
I experience the exact same phenomenon as you - I always go faster than the 25 or so others on my club ride downhill - I can even gently go past the guy at the front without even pedalling. This happens on every hill, every time.
I also ride tubs. But I would never have said that it was down to the tubs though. It has to be all about aero surely? Because we're talking fairly high speed here, (35km/h+) and if aero is 80% of resistance on the flat then it must be more like 95% on a downhill.
I am lighter (63kg) and smaller (1.74m) than almost all of my fellow riders, so although they have greater momentum (higher weight), I have a smaller silhouette. My bike is not especially aero, a Sworks SL5, but I do pay attention to tight fitting kit, and I have a Kask Protone.
So I would say that what you are noticing is probably down to something small like a narrower handlebar (mine is only 40cm), knees/elbows tucked in more than others, better helmet / head position, etc. etc.
I would love to say it's down to tubs, but I very much doubt it.0 -
i dont know, a few years ago, i did 2 descents of the Valporola, the v fast bit before you get into the trees, one on DA c35 comp tubs and another on rs81s c35 gp4000s mk 1s, the tubs were smoother and i hit 56mph, the rs81s 52mph.
i came out of the final corner at 20mph @ the same marker, i felt more confident on the tubs, so maybe i was more radical on my aero tuck but either way i believed i was faster so that counts for everything really.0 -
OK, I'll rephrase. My even more unscientific test...This is nowhere near as scientific as their test, and their test was hardly scientific.
You've observed what you've observed and then you put it down to tubs vs clinchers?
brilliant. It appears you're not joking either.
I haven't heard a better explanation yet, and (in true internet style) everyone's making a lot of assumptions. So, here's a better (more boring) recitation.
I routinely cycle with at least two other people who are the same height (186cm), weight (79kg) and general build as me. We are all on similar grades of equipment (they have Propels, I have the aforementioned Cervelo). My total system weight is probably slightly lighter, since my bike is lighter. We are all competent cyclists, and ride similar saddle to bar drops. If we start at the top of a reasonable hill (think Judges or Carbone, for those who know Herts), line abreast, and none of us pedal, and all of us assume an aero tuck, I will reach the bottom materially ahead and at materially higher speed. This will also be true taken as a comparison across the larger group, but that will include people not running aero rims or who are significantly lighter or more upright, so making for a less useful comparison. There is not the same pronounced difference between their performance relative to each other.
My observation is repeatable across maybe a hundred rides, in a variety of weather conditions, with the obvious advantage that the weather conditions are consistent for all participants, and the obvious disadvantage that they aren't me, and aren't therefore either on identical kit or of identical shape.
So either I have magic aero pixie dust or - as the only person in the group running tubs - the tyres have something to do with it.
What you should do is swap your tub Enve's for some similar profile clinchers for a few club rides and repeat the test.0 -
There are a couple of points they didn't touch on in the test. First off it's far cheaper to buy a light wheel/ rim using tubulars than clinchers. E.g. Planet x or slightly more lottery like Chinese direct.
Second is you can run good tubulars at far higher pressures than a clincher for the same 'feel'. Although tests seem to show lower pressures roll better, but putting 130psi in the tyres certainly makes them feel pretty snappy.0 -
I can descend faster than most people these days. At the Marmotte and Etape I overtook loads of people, who were all seasoned skinny / well trained types. I did it on a alu bike, almost everyone had carbon bikes. Therefore, in my unscientific test, alu bikes roll faster than carbon bikes.
I can only assume that the ones I didn't catch also had alu bikes - in fact, I'm sure of it.0 -
I can only assume that the ones I didn't catch also had alu bikes - in fact, I'm sure of it.
Cheaper bike = more risk taking.I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles0 -
I can only assume that the ones I didn't catch also had alu bikes - in fact, I'm sure of it.
I reckon the guys with the fastest/winning times must have also been on alu bikes...0 -
I can only assume that the ones I didn't catch also had alu bikes - in fact, I'm sure of it.
I reckon the guys with the fastest/winning times must have also been on alu bikes...
You've managed to come up with the same joke you've just read.0 -
Technically, it's different, but it's great to see the debate moving on like this....0
