Right of way on private road - help?

slowbike

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19765535#p19765535]gabriel959[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19765515#p19765515]The Rookie[/url] wrote:

You could make it into an HR issue, health and safety of the proposal if your HR dept is at all competent!

Ask for the risk assessment!

Good point, but IBM's HR is not exactly competent in my experience, they will look at covering their backs. It may be worth a try though.

What you need is an HR monitor ....

gabriel959

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19765553#p19765553]Slowbike[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19765535#p19765535]gabriel959[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19765515#p19765515]The Rookie[/url] wrote:

You could make it into an HR issue, health and safety of the proposal if your HR dept is at all competent!

Ask for the risk assessment!

Good point, but my company's HR is not exactly competent in my experience, they will look at covering their backs. It may be worth a try though.

What you need is an HR monitor ....

Got one already

The Rookie

Ask for the risk assessment for cyclists at speed on the pavement and going through the obstructing furniture....I'll bet their isn't one.

My son now works for IBM (Warwick) after his previous company was bought out.

gabriel959

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19766045#p19766045]The Rookie[/url] wrote:

Ask for the risk assessment for cyclists at speed on the pavement and going through the obstructing furniture....I'll bet their isn't one.

My son now works for IBM (Warwick) after his previous company was bought out.

Nice one, hadn't thought of that. Will send an email today asking for one.

The Rookie

Unless or until they have carried out a risk assessment they shouldn't be telling you to do it, otherwise if any harm came to you or someone else because of it they would be slam dunk on a negligence claim.

gabriel959

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19766192#p19766192]The Rookie[/url] wrote:

Unless or until they have carried out a risk assessment they shouldn't be telling you to do it, otherwise if any harm came to you or someone else because of it they would be slam dunk on a negligence claim.

Surprisingly they have not replied. I have said that if I was to have an accident and they did not have one they would immediately liable for any negligence claim that could occur.

diy

I don't see any legal angles that would allow you to challenge this, as if I understand it the facilities company is acting as agent of your employer? or your employer is a client of the company? In any case you probably don't have a right of access in the same way as you would a public right of way over a private road.

I'd advise you to edit out the name of your employer from this thread as its highly likely that your employment policy doesn't permit you to b*tch about matters relating to your employment or its commercial arrangements on a public forum.

If you were not accessing the premises of your employer and therefore bound (probably) by some terms that say you can't be an annoyance, then they probably would have no ability to stop you doing as you please.

In the absence of a breach of the license to occupy (which is probably what you have) they are stuck with trespass law, and since they probably don't have exclusive possession - wouldn't be able to stop you.

What you probably have is a series of contractual obligations to do as you are told, between landowner, FM, employer and you.

Why not limbo under the barrier as part of your cool down stretch

gabriel959

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19773122#p19773122]diy[/url] wrote:

I don't see any legal angles that would allow you to challenge this, as if I understand it the facilities company is acting as agent of your employer? or your employer is a client of the company? In any case you probably don't have a right of access in the same way as you would a public right of way over a private road.

I'd advise you to edit out the name of your employer from this thread as its highly likely that your employment policy doesn't permit you to b*tch about matters relating to your employment or its commercial arrangements on a public forum.

If you were not accessing the premises of your employer and therefore bound (probably) by some terms that say you can't be an annoyance, then they probably would have no ability to stop you doing as you please.

In the absence of a breach of the license to occupy (which is probably what you have) they are stuck with trespass law, and since they probably don't have exclusive possession - wouldn't be able to stop you.

What you probably have is a series of contractual obligations to do as you are told, between landowner, FM, employer and you.

Why not limbo under the barrier as part of your cool down stretch

Thanks for your input diy. Much appreciated.

The whole site is owned by an external company, not my employer. My employer rent one of the units, ARM, NHS, Sagentia, etc employ other units. The site can be entered by anyone, it is not closed to public access although I am pretty sure there is no public right of way (there is a sign on each one of the entrances). I am not upset with IBM, they do treat me well 8)

I have removed my employer's name as a precaution but I am not really talking about my job, only about how I get there

Thanks for the suggestion about the barrier and the limbo! They are putting it today so I will let you all know what happens.

gabriel959

For info my main problem is safety, the new entrance is very narrow at the wrong angle, usually poorly maintained in terms of road debris, many signs, poles sticking out at random places in the path, etc and I expect there to be accidents. I have not been the only person (cyclist and pedestrian) to point this out.

gabriel959

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19766192#p19766192]The Rookie[/url] wrote:

Unless or until they have carried out a risk assessment they shouldn't be telling you to do it, otherwise if any harm came to you or someone else because of it they would be slam dunk on a negligence claim.

So, it looks like they "have" a risk assessment and they are going to send it to me on Monday (so they are probably doing it right now!!!) as the barrier has gone up but it has not been activated yet (its on its open position)... so they are probably rushing to get it done.

diy

Unless you personally have a right over the land (as in you own land and have a right to pass or easement etc.) or you can find something in the terms of the lease which say differently, I reckon they can do what they like.

I do know how frustrating this can be.. I had a similar situation when some f***wit in facilities installed plastic speed bumps by the motorcycle parking bay, which were so awkwardly placed that every time it was icy you gripped and hoped not to lose the front end.

I pointed it out to facilities fw who was clueless about how motorcycles needed to lean and how slippy the tyres can be when cold, but because of my position didn't push it. I wish I had, as one of the girls in the canteen dropped her scooter and cracked her elbow (scooters having smaller wheels and lower CoG, means they are more likely to slide). I was only too happy to forward a copy of my original complaint.

Said facilities Fw doesn't work here any more - probably got a new job installing barriers and bumps elsewhere.

surrey_commuter

This thread really confuses me - why don't you dodge round the end of the barrier or duck underneath it?

gabriel959

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19774366#p19774366]Surrey Commuter[/url] wrote:

This thread really confuses me - why don't you dodge round the end of the barrier or duck underneath it?

Because the way they have installed it you can't dodge around it, you have to use a silly narrow shared path next to it. I could probably duck underneath it, although it is quite a low barrier!

I have done as much as I can realistically can with this (probably more than I should have done going by diy's messages) but at least my conscience will be clear when an accident happens on that narrow pavement.

diy

No not at all - you just don't want to be a victor meldrew in matters relating to your employer, unless its worth the bother (£££).

gabriel959

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19774847#p19774847]diy[/url] wrote:

No not at all - you just don't want to be a victor meldrew in matters relating to your employer, unless its worth the bother (£££).

That too, one gets tired of being the grumpy old git all the time!! :twisted:

gabriel959

For info, barrier still not in use, hopefully the Risk Assessment failed and they are back on the drawing board.

First.Aspect

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19778175#p19778175]gabriel959[/url] wrote:

For info, barrier still not in use, wishfully the Risk Assessment failed and they are back on the drawing board.

FTFY.

The barrier is now there, so they will make the risk assessment fit the decision they've made. Come to think of it, that's how it always works.

gabriel959

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19778314#p19778314]First Aspect[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19778175#p19778175]gabriel959[/url] wrote:

For info, barrier still not in use, wishfully the Risk Assessment failed and they are back on the drawing board.

FTFY.

The barrier is now there, so they will make the risk assessment fit the decision they've made. Come to think of it, that's how it always works.

Possibly, but they have added yet more furniture to the path (i.e the barrier holder) and the entrance is too narrow to the path (less than a meter wide). The path is also less than 2 meters wide so I expect problems.

awavey

had a similar thing at our work site last year, vehicles werent slowing down properly for the security gatehouse, so the facilities team decided a set of full width plastic speed bumps was the answer, fortunately our building cycling reps caught wind of it and badgered them enough to modify their plans, even though it meant changing what had already been installed in parts, so theres now a cut through space in the speed bumps for cyclists,though it also gets used by motorbikes as well

but keep up the pressure and you may well get the change you want, it helped in our case definitely I think in that we could speak as a recognised group and not just as individuals.

gabriel959

They have done a risk assessment and they have to make some changes, minor mind you. I am keeping at it - accidents will happen, 100% guaranteed.

wolfsbane2k

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19778447#p19778447]awavey[/url] wrote:

had a similar thing at our work site last year, vehicles werent slowing down properly for the security gatehouse, so the facilities team decided a set of full width plastic speed bumps was the answer, fortunately our building cycling reps caught wind of it and badgered them enough to modify their plans, even though it meant changing what had already been installed in parts, so theres now a cut through space in the speed bumps for cyclists,though it also gets used by motorbikes as well

but keep up the pressure and you may well get the change you want, it helped in our case definitely I think in that we could speak as a recognised group and not just as individuals.

I'm intrigued by the idea of a company formally recognising a "building cycling reps" - some of us can just dream :S