Dutch bus stop bypass Oxford Road Manchester.

brocco
brocco Posts: 20
edited November 2015 in Commuting chat
Apologies if this isn't the right place but it looks the most appropriate forum.

I have seen the thread about The Oxford Road proposals but following on from the article link below..... Has anyone used it or seen it yet? If so, what are your thoughts?

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/manchesters-cyclists-welcome-new-dutch-10129116

Comments

  • jds_1981
    jds_1981 Posts: 1,858
    Apologies if this isn't the right place but it looks the most appropriate forum.

    I have seen the thread about The Oxford Road proposals but following on from the article link below..... Has anyone used it or seen it yet? If so, what are your thoughts?

    http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/manchesters-cyclists-welcome-new-dutch-10129116
    They've got some along the a11 in London. They have humps and corners in which nadir things a bit more fun at 25mph but if there were other cyclists around I stick to the road (on the rare occasion I go that way)
    FCN 9 || FCN 5
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,587
    looks fine...

    the strange thing for me is seeing Go Dutch plastered all over it...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • kurako
    kurako Posts: 1,098
    How do you rejoin the main road without getting squashed by a bus?

    EDIT: Just watched the vid. 'Bus priority' says it all really.

    http://www.tfgm.com/buspriority/Pages/website/default.html
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,587
    The bus moves out???

    Is it that hard?
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • jds_1981
    jds_1981 Posts: 1,858
    The main problem on Oxford road is the lane will be full of student pedestrians.
    There was the odd red coloured cycle lane along there a decade ago and people liked to walk on the pretty colours. Being younger I used application of my rear brake to inform them of my approach.
    Have they stopped cars from parking in the cycling lane along curry mile?
    FCN 9 || FCN 5
  • y33stu
    y33stu Posts: 376
    They've tried to do this in Newcastle on a stretch of road I use every day. But they've failed miserably. within 2 months of them being installed 4 pedestrians had been knocked over by cyclists, as they made no clear difference between the cycle lane and the pavement behind the bus stop.

    Wherever possible I just use the road. By now that a cycle lane exists I get abuse from drivers for not using the dangerous cycle lane.
    Cycling prints
    Band of Climbers
  • imatfaal
    imatfaal Posts: 2,716
    The Stratford ones that JDS mentions are at least very obviously bike lane - blue and down a curb; I have still had to slam on brakes on quite a few occasions to avoid peds and once jump onto pavement to avoid a mother and kids. I quite like the slalom effect tho :-)
  • mtb-idle
    mtb-idle Posts: 2,179
    They have these in Brighton too. Down by the university. If you are familiar with the L2B route, just after the final steep descent off the downs you skirt around the back of Brighton. There's about half a dozen of them in a couple of mile stretch.

    Only ridden them in the height of Summer during the middle of the day. Felt a bit weird, no idea what they would be like on a busy winter commute during rush hour.
    FCN = 4
  • brocco
    brocco Posts: 20
    I did pop out and take a look but it was in the morning after the AM peak traffic, so it wasn't the best time to see how it works in practice.

    When I did see it there was a lot of rubbish about which naturally collects in the lane, but surprise surprise it seemed to be spotless for a councillor photo shoot a few days later ;)

    I suppose time will tell over how effective it is and how well used it is, as I think this is the first in several bus stop bypasses planned along Oxford Road.
  • brocco
    brocco Posts: 20
    looks fine...

    the strange thing for me is seeing Go Dutch plastered all over it...

    I personall think some of the 'dutch' decals on the stop are a little cheesy but hopefully it will just be on the first one for publicity purposes and wont be replicated on all of them :)
  • I have used this quite a few times on commute - not good. You have to slow right down as there are pedestrians standing in lane or crossing without looking. It places bike lane between pavement and bus stop so that people rushing for bus just cross without looking. There will be collisions.
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    They are putting these in on the Leeds Bradford cycle 'super highway'.

    On the uphill sections they are probably OK. On the flat maybe not too bad. On the downhill I shall be avoiding them like the plague. Up to 30mph and that kind of obstacle is something that should be in a Red Bull Video - not a commute! The Dutch references are perhaps appropriate - a useful reminder that what works on the flat doesn't necessarily work on a downhill. Hopefully the cars (40mph limit) won't get too annoyed with me for not using the incredibly expensive cycle route that has been causing all sorts of delays in its construction for what now seems like years!

    The bus stops themselves are much worse than the Manchester ones - often the original ones with solid end walls so you won't be able to see someone standing outside the end of the bus stop and they won't be able to see you.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,587
    Rewrite Rolf's post as if it was posted by a driver and just...you know...run it through your mind..
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    Rewrite Rolf's post as if it was posted by a driver and just...you know...run it through your mind..

    Don't really get what you are getting at! Possibly the fog this morning has got into my brain and short circuited but please explain! As I see it (using a drivers analogy) - it is as though a car driver, commuting to work along a motorway is suddenly told that they are building an expensive new road for him, parallel to the old road and that he should use that in future - the motorway being kept for the lorries. The new road is a track with lots of humps, corners and obstacles to get past. The car driver is hardly likely to be that grateful.

    The Leeds Bradford cycle super highway is really a bit dangerous. The way it crosses side turnings looks
    so far pretty ambiguous, the random raised sections are likely to be lethal in winter (salt free) and the narrow chicanes scary. Some junctions I am hoping will come with instruction manuals as I have no idea how the bikes are meant to cross them! As I say, the downhill sections are simply dangerous unless you pootle at 15mph max which seems a daft expectation if my overall commute speed is faster than the cars.

    I'll see how it goes but I am experimenting with new routes to work that avoid the 'Super Highway' as much as possible. Ironically, those are more suburban routes with lots of side turnings and IMO rather more dangerous than my original route pre cycle lane. I'm not sure that this is what the investment was aiming to achieve!

    Of course, if the result of this is that suddenly large numbers of people start cycling to work then for all my complaining, the results would be speaking for themselves - and then of course, with lots of bikes on it, the cycle lane becomes safer as the pedestrians will expect bikes to be on it. But I will be surprised if that happens.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • kurako
    kurako Posts: 1,098
    In my experience buses seem to have this sixth sense where they wait and wait until I'm committed to a pass then start to pull out (and if you're lucky they may even indicate first).

    Another thing they seem to do and thankfully they do it a lot less in London these days or perhaps I just avoid busy bus routes is to overtake just before a bust stop then pull in forcing you to take avoiding action.

    So what is the solution they came up with? Easy. Make a special path so bikes go to the left of the bus stop handily getting them out of the hair of bus drivers desperately trying to keep to a schedule they can never keep due to all the frigging cars on the road....

    The designers don't care that these paths will be full of leaves and other crud or that it will bring cyclists and pedestrians into conflict. The language is the video is clearly lumping cyclists and pedestrians together in one group. The message it sends to be is that cyclists are not legitimate road users. It is about 'bus priority'....
  • This is at the very end of my commute and i know the area well. I haven't used it and don't intend to. For me there seems too much risk of someone stepping out.
    I turn left from Hathersage road into this and then right on Moss Lane East, using the lane wouldnt give me much room or time to get over for the right turn if a bus/taxi were coming either.
  • thistle_
    thistle_ Posts: 7,217
    There was a similar "segregated" cycle lane along part of Rhyl promenade (lower than the footway with a kerb between the cycle lane and the road). People just walked in it.

    There's one at Colwyn Bay/Rhos on Sea between a parking area and the footway. Cars overhang it, people walk in it and it collects the wind blown sand nicely.

    Good to see we're learning from past experiences...
  • In my experience buses seem to have this sixth sense where they wait and wait until I'm committed to a pass then start to pull out (and if you're lucky they may even indicate first).

    Another thing they seem to do and thankfully they do it a lot less in London these days or perhaps I just avoid busy bus routes is to overtake just before a bust stop then pull in forcing you to take avoiding action.

    So what is the solution they came up with? Easy. Make a special path so bikes go to the left of the bus stop handily getting them out of the hair of bus drivers desperately trying to keep to a schedule they can never keep due to all the frigging cars on the road....

    The designers don't care that these paths will be full of leaves and other crud or that it will bring cyclists and pedestrians into conflict. The language is the video is clearly lumping cyclists and pedestrians together in one group. The message it sends to be is that cyclists are not legitimate road users. It is about 'bus priority'....

    Yes exactly - this is better for buses and worse for cyclists and pedestrians.