EVEL vote
ilm_zero7
Posts: 2,213
Yes, and its about time too
http://veloviewer.com/SigImage.php?a=3370a&r=3&c=5&u=M&g=p&f=abcdefghij&z=a.png
Wiliers: Cento Uno/Superleggera R and Zero 7. Bianchi Infinito CV and Oltre XR2
Wiliers: Cento Uno/Superleggera R and Zero 7. Bianchi Infinito CV and Oltre XR2
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Comments
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Ok, I bite. Doha? GTF.0
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The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Seems pretty fair. The provinces have their say on their local matters and we have our say on our matters. Not sure what the big fuss is about."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0
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exactly, disproportionate influence for the regions that sought self governance can't be righthttp://veloviewer.com/SigImage.php?a=3370a&r=3&c=5&u=M&g=p&f=abcdefghij&z=a.png
Wiliers: Cento Uno/Superleggera R and Zero 7. Bianchi Infinito CV and Oltre XR20 -
Another once in a generation independence vote for Scotland. I can see a lot v of positives but it's a no from me. Purely on the grounds it's a bodge job to keep power at Westminster not another assembly or parliament. It's a nothing idea that appeals to those Englanders who are afraid of pushing for English parliament or English regional parliaments. The northern powerhouse mayoral carp and other mayoral cities is a diffusion of any real federalist argument.
IMHO we have been sleepwalking into a fake federalist format without any kind of rational thought. It's been about appeasing certain groups and ignoring others because they've been politically silent or just don't vote your way in as safe or predictable way. IMHO Blair messed up and instead of a full and open debate on our governmental system he gave a region their devolution referendum. I always felt there should have been some kind of national discussion on union wide devolution to a federal system. A royal commission perhaps.
Blair gave power to the Nats where there was little with devolution referendum in Scotland. Time to finish his devolution work with a rational federalist system. He broke it let's fix it as best as it can be fixed with a fair and equal system across the whole union.0 -
Correct me if I'm incorrect but this "major constitutional change" seems to have happened very quietly...
It's been coming for a while. Perhaps not as big an issue as it should be in the media.
It's interesting that the Government continue to use devolution as a reason for this change yet it would be so easy to interfere with, at least Wales', devolution aspects in very many ways. They also continue to hold, even on devolution matters, things like the intervention power in relation to water (in Wales).
What's also interesting is that UK wide legislation that affects Wales and Scotland requires a legislative consent order (from their respective Parliaments). There's trouble brewing there in relation to the welfare system and the unions Bill. Big constitutional stuff coming there. Quite exciting. But, yes, this Government has either no intent to retain the Scots or are just plain dumb. Probably the latter.My blog: http://www.roubaixcycling.cc (kit reviews and other musings)
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Facebook? No. Just say no.0 -
Only probably? You are too kind.Probably the latter.0 -
I was surprised that it didnt get more coverage in the media, although as most people in England probably agree with the move, it hasnt caused too much uproar.Correct me if I'm incorrect but this "major constitutional change" seems to have happened very quietly...
That said, the 'West Lothian' issue has been around for a long time and it was in the Tory manifesto, so its no real surprise."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Wasn't on most people's agenda prior to the Scottish referendum. The SNP are now reaping what they sowed with their anti English/Westminster/London rhetoric. People down south have roused themselves to consider Barnett and the anomalies of devolution.
EVEL - Bring it on!0 -
totally agreeWasn't on most people's agenda prior to the Scottish referendum. The SNP are now reaping what they sowed with their anti English/Westminster/London rhetoric. People down south have roused themselves to consider Barnett and the anomalies of devolution.
EVEL - Bring it on!http://veloviewer.com/SigImage.php?a=3370a&r=3&c=5&u=M&g=p&f=abcdefghij&z=a.png
Wiliers: Cento Uno/Superleggera R and Zero 7. Bianchi Infinito CV and Oltre XR20 -
Wasn't on most people's agenda prior to the Scottish referendum. The SNP are now reaping what they sowed with their anti English/Westminster/London rhetoric. People down south have roused themselves to consider Barnett and the anomalies of devolution.
EVEL - Bring it on!
Whatever the rights and wrongs of the current system, Isnt this just going to lead to futher devolution. and the eventual break up of the union?0 -
Would that count as the SNP reaping what they sowed?Wasn't on most people's agenda prior to the Scottish referendum. The SNP are now reaping what they sowed with their anti English/Westminster/London rhetoric. People down south have roused themselves to consider Barnett and the anomalies of devolution.
EVEL - Bring it on!
Whatever the rights and wrongs of the current system, Isnt this just going to lead to futher devolution. and the eventual break up of the union?The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Would that count as the SNP reaping what they sowed?[/quoteWasn't on most people's agenda prior to the Scottish referendum. The SNP are now reaping what they sowed with their anti English/Westminster/London rhetoric. People down south have roused themselves to consider Barnett and the anomalies of devolution.
EVEL - Bring it on!
Whatever the rights and wrongs of the current system, Isnt this just going to lead to futher devolution. and the eventual break up of the union?
ha ha!0 -
Simple question, is the union worth.saving?
Please answer based on national viewpoint, i. e. a Welsh, English, Scottish and northern Irish perspective. National perspective not individual party perspective. Would each nation be significantly better off, not much difference after the dust settles or worse off.
I have a feeling that Scotland and England would end up better off. Wales and northern Ireland have a lot going for them but I think worse off. Certainly for some time at least. Wales has issues with rural access to services. Things like hospital is problematic without access to English hospitals. Where are the big hospitals? Bangor, Cardiff, Swansea probably have big hospitals. Aber? Where in mid Wales?
Northern Ireland will have real issues with republicans going for joining with the republic with agusto. I actually fear for violence coming back more than its been in recent years.
This is all off topic but evel and differential distribution of powers all feeds into either separation or common sense coming into play to strengthen the union with fair solution such as a full federalization. Just my opinion without evidence or facts (typical forum opinion I suppose).0 -
My guess would be that if any Country is to end up better off, then it would be England but only a while after the dust settled.
The Scots would probably be worse off but (some/most?) would be happier as lets face it, their politics are very removed from Westminster.
The Welsh and Irish would be worse off and yes, I could see N.I. being a basket case.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
North sea oil aint gonna last too much longer.
I dont think there should have been any devolution, but if you are going to do it, you need to do it for every country, ideally exactly the same for every country.0 -
the Scots (SNP) started all of this- and now it a one way street - would have been better if they had voted yes and we could re-build the wall0
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Probably not far wrong, which is why the English are not too worried if it does happen. If the SNP wants to saw off the branch it is sitting on, let them.My guess would be that if any Country is to end up better off, then it would be England but only a while after the dust settled.
The Scots would probably be worse off but (some/most?) would be happier as lets face it, their politics are very removed from Westminster.
The Welsh and Irish would be worse off and yes, I could see N.I. being a basket case.
What I don't get is why EVEL should drive the Scots to independence. It's only mirroring their voting arrangements on pure Scots issues; and why should they be concerned with voting on English only matters?"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
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What I don't get is why EVEL should drive the Scots to independence. It's only mirroring their voting arrangements on pure Scots issues; and why should they be concerned with voting on English only matters?
when they had no power in the uk parliament, they whined about how it wasn't fair that it made decisions about scotland
of course now that they've got a fair number of mps there, suddenly it's something they want to be part of, so that they can do exactly what they whined about, hypocrisy or lust for power, take your pick
personally i think we need to get rid of half the mps, there're far too many for the population, and to claim they are representative of their constituents is a joke
we also need a brutal crackdown on corruption in local government and various local/regional agencies
well, i can dream, sighmy bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
Wasn't on most people's agenda prior to the Scottish referendum. The SNP are now reaping what they sowed with their anti English/Westminster/London rhetoric. People down south have roused themselves to consider Barnett and the anomalies of devolution.
EVEL - Bring it on!
Whatever the rights and wrongs of the current system, Isnt this just going to lead to futher devolution. and the eventual break up of the union?
Don't think it will lead to break up of Union. SNP gave it its best shot last time and came up short. Even if the majority were in favour of independence, the realisation that they would have to revert to the groat and that it would be extremely hard, caused them to pause before leaping into the abyss. The vaunted white paper turned out to be complete fiction and I don't think the Scots would be so easily fooled again.0 -
56 out of 650?of course now that they've got a fair number of mps there, suddenly it's something they want to be part of, so that they can do exactly what they whined about, hypocrisy or lust for power, take your pick
Not really going to make any difference.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Useful Westminster politicking rule for the Tories which in reality had little impact on the way England was governed; They've essentially ruled out the part of the country that never votes for them out of rulings for the main rump of the UK.
If they did the same for London too they'd be quids in; devolve a few more powers to the London Mayor - whine about a new 'London West-Lothian' problem and remove that rump of MPs too.0 -
Wasn't on most people's agenda prior to the Scottish referendum. The SNP are now reaping what they sowed with their anti English/Westminster/London rhetoric. People down south have roused themselves to consider Barnett and the anomalies of devolution.
EVEL - Bring it on!
Whatever the rights and wrongs of the current system, Isnt this just going to lead to futher devolution. and the eventual break up of the union?
Don't think it will lead to break up of Union. SNP gave it its best shot last time and came up short. Even if the majority were in favour of independence, the realisation that they would have to revert to the groat and that it would be extremely hard, caused them to pause before leaping into the abyss. The vaunted white paper turned out to be complete fiction and I don't think the Scots would be so easily fooled again.
SNP know that they failed to make economic case. Nothing has changed in that regard, so there will be no break up.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/salmond-aide-yes-campaign-lost-on-economic-case-1-3921118#axzz3pZIhbjh60 -
56 out of 650?of course now that they've got a fair number of mps there, suddenly it's something they want to be part of, so that they can do exactly what they whined about, hypocrisy or lust for power, take your pick
Not really going to make any difference.
where did i say they'd make a difference? that's not the point
the point is that after years of whining, suddenly they like being there and want to do exactly what they complained aboutmy bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
Sorry, I latched on to the power part. They have none in Westminster.
56 out of 650?of course now that they've got a fair number of mps there, suddenly it's something they want to be part of, so that they can do exactly what they whined about, hypocrisy or lust for power, take your pick
Not really going to make any difference.
where did i say they'd make a difference? that's not the point
the point is that after years of whining, suddenly they like being there and want to do exactly what they complained about
Please explain what they want to do that they complained about?
The SNP have always said the West Lothian question was a stupid situation and supported the idea of EVEL. AFAIK.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Sorry, I latched on to the power part. They have none in Westminster.
56 out of 650?of course now that they've got a fair number of mps there, suddenly it's something they want to be part of, so that they can do exactly what they whined about, hypocrisy or lust for power, take your pick
Not really going to make any difference.
where did i say they'd make a difference? that's not the point
the point is that after years of whining, suddenly they like being there and want to do exactly what they complained about
Please explain what they want to do that they complained about?
The SNP have always said the West Lothian question was a stupid situation and supported the idea of EVEL. AFAIK.
yep, but last week they were whining about evel, seems they had a change of heart
in the past they whined incessantly about the "westminster government", seemingly not understanding that it's actually the uk government and that this is a democracy where minorities don't get to dictate to the majority
they are now part of what they whined about, they're still whining
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=snp+mp+whine+about+english+votes+for+english+lawsmy bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
Ah. I thought it may have been something serious.
Sorry, I latched on to the power part. They have none in Westminster.
56 out of 650?of course now that they've got a fair number of mps there, suddenly it's something they want to be part of, so that they can do exactly what they whined about, hypocrisy or lust for power, take your pick
Not really going to make any difference.
where did i say they'd make a difference? that's not the point
the point is that after years of whining, suddenly they like being there and want to do exactly what they complained about
Please explain what they want to do that they complained about?
The SNP have always said the West Lothian question was a stupid situation and supported the idea of EVEL. AFAIK.
yep, but last week they were whining about evel, seems they had a change of heart
in the past they whined incessantly about the "westminster government", seemingly not understanding that it's actually the uk government and that this is a democracy where minorities don't get to dictate to the majority
they are now part of what they whined about, they're still whining
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=snp+mp+whine+about+english+votes+for+english+laws
I thought the SNP made it quite clear from the outset that their MO would be to go against the Conservatives at any available moment. The only thing they could do to surprise me is to vote with the Conservatives.
In the meantime, their whining doesn't amount to didly squat.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0
