To get a camera or not... that is the question
gabriel959
Posts: 4,227
So I have been debating for a while to get a camera or not, one to put on the seatpost as I fear what I can't see more than what I have in front of me, as at least I can react or predict what they are going to do. I am only interested in the insurance POV, as in, I have an accident and need to prove its their fault so they pay for my expensive medical treatment and my broken bike, etc...
I have seen that the Fly6 is on offer at Wiggle, well £85. Don't really need the light but I quite like the idea that video is being recorded at all times when in use, and I do not want to use it for editing, etc, but if I ever need it I can go and get the video. Who on here uses a camera and why? I see people like CyclingMikey, Cycle Gaz and Dr Morocho on Twitter, but I do not want to be seen as a lycra warrior or anything like that.
Basically, I am here because I want you to tell me to buy one. :twisted:
I have seen that the Fly6 is on offer at Wiggle, well £85. Don't really need the light but I quite like the idea that video is being recorded at all times when in use, and I do not want to use it for editing, etc, but if I ever need it I can go and get the video. Who on here uses a camera and why? I see people like CyclingMikey, Cycle Gaz and Dr Morocho on Twitter, but I do not want to be seen as a lycra warrior or anything like that.
Basically, I am here because I want you to tell me to buy one. :twisted:
x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x
Commuting / Winter rides - Jamis Renegade Expert
Pootling / Offroad - All-City Macho Man Disc
Fast rides Cannondale SuperSix Ultegra
Commuting / Winter rides - Jamis Renegade Expert
Pootling / Offroad - All-City Macho Man Disc
Fast rides Cannondale SuperSix Ultegra
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Comments
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I saw this on Ebay, might be worth a punt to start off with.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201451276753?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649I've added a signature to prove it is still possible.0 -
Buy one.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I tried a Garmin for a while. Never stuck with it though. Got it because I was worried about all the terrible driving then canned it because it was making me worry even more. Now I don't bother and I don't worry. I would probably get a Fly 6 if I had cash to spend on anything other than getting ready for the arrival of the little one (and hadn't already spent it on gadgets I don't use!).Kinesis Racelite 4s disc
Kona Paddy Wagon
Canyon Roadlite Al 7.0 - reborn as single speed!
Felt Z85 - mangled by taxi.0 -
No, don't do it. If you fear what's going on behind you when you can't see it, imagine how bad it will be if you review a video and see what the idiots are doing behind you.
Seriously though. If you want it for insurance reasons, fair enough. But I wouldn't want to look back at the footage of a near miss for a couple of reasons. Firstly, it would make me dwell on it for longer rather than move on and get over it. Secondly, if the EPO were to see a near miss with me involved she'd worry even more than she does now.
So, get one for insurance reasons, but never look back at the footage unless you have to. Obviously after you know it all works.0 -
I think I'd consider one next time it came to buying a rear light.
And having been knocked off the bike last week, if the bloke hadn't been reasonable about paying for damage then it'd definitely be useful.
But I'm in no particular rush.
You buy one though0 -
It's a tough one. For insurance purposes you'd want a plate clearly visible, which i don't think is possible with current affordable ( up to,say £500 ) cycling cameras in the dark. Frame rate does not have to be high, 30-20fps should do the job, bet resolution as high as possible and should work in the dark. Does such camera exist?0
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Only do it if you're *very* confident that it won't turn you into another GoPro vigilante. Only you can make that call.
I don't know what your commute's like, but on mine I reckon that something like 90% of the potentially dangerous situations are caused by something that happens in front of me. About the only things that someone behind you can do are drive straight into the back of you, half-overtake you and then squeeze you into the kerb, or left-hook you. For insurance purposes, a forward-facing camera will capture two of those three incidents better than a rear-facing one anyway, aswell as the remaining 90% of incidents caused by something that happens in front of you.
I have been idly tempted to mount a rear-facing camera, pointing slightly upwards, but that would be so that I could capture full-face shots of unrepentant drafting fairies and post them on here. We could have a "fairy of the day" thread...Pannier, 120rpm.0 -
We could have a "fairy of the day" thread...
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It's a tough one. For insurance purposes you'd want a plate clearly visible, which i don't think is possible with current affordable ( up to,say £500 ) cycling cameras in the dark. Frame rate does not have to be high, 30-20fps should do the job, bet resolution as high as possible and should work in the dark. Does such camera exist?
Not really. You'd only need a picture perfect image if trying to find someone who's hit and run etc.
If the other party is disputing who's to blame then a camera is pretty invaluable.0 -
I know two people who've abandoned their cameras because of the type of rider it was turning them into. They found themselves more or less fishing for incidents, and had sufficient self-awareness to recognize that and not like it. My guess is that's what TGOTB means by Go Pro vigilantes.Dolan Titanium ADX 2016
Ridley Noah FAST 2013
Bottecchia/Campagnolo 1990
Carrera Parva Hybrid 2016
Hoy Sa Calobra 002 2014 [off duty]
Storck Absolutist 2011 [off duty]
http://www.slidingseat.net/cycling/cycling.html0 -
I have a Garmin Virb which starts recording the same time as I press Start on my Garmin GPS. I could also add another one to link to the first (ie start/stop recording with 1 button) - £99 or less.
I do so for insurance purposes, though I haven't started with a rear-facing one yet. That might be useful for SCR bragging thouhg
I also have Front/Rear cams in my car just in case.1997 Gary Fisher Big Sur
2009 Scott Spark 60
2010 Ghost 5000
2011 Commencal Ramones AL1
2012 Commencal Meta AM10 -
I know two people who've abandoned their cameras because of the type of rider it was turning them into. They found themselves more or less fishing for incidents, and had sufficient self-awareness to recognize that and not like it. My guess is that's what TGOTB means by Go Pro vigilantes.
Precise reason I stopped using my Virb.Kinesis Racelite 4s disc
Kona Paddy Wagon
Canyon Roadlite Al 7.0 - reborn as single speed!
Felt Z85 - mangled by taxi.0 -
I did not buy it in the end, as I do not want to become a GoPro vigilante, thanks all for the input.x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x
Commuting / Winter rides - Jamis Renegade Expert
Pootling / Offroad - All-City Macho Man Disc
Fast rides Cannondale SuperSix Ultegra0 -
I've used my Go Pro (helmet mounted) on one commute. Looked at the crisp, HD quality footage....of me looking at the delightful young lady pedestrians en route.....
Needless to say footage deleted. Might try Chesty next time - might make me look less of a perv.... :oops:Waterloo - White City
Cannondale Quick Carbon 1 2016
Cannondale Scalpel Carbon 3 26" (Lefty)0 -
I've got a Virb Elite. Hasn't made a vigilante of me yet, but then I've barely been on the bike since spring. I suppose it's different in the city, where most people are psychotic. More temptation to join in. But, generally, vigilantes buy cameras; cameras don't necessarily make vigilantes.
Still, the Virb has earned me some John Lewis vouchers, as a result of a really stupid close pass, so it may pay for itself eventually.
This is wrong:It's a tough one. For insurance purposes you'd want a plate clearly visible, which i don't think is possible with current affordable ( up to,say £500 ) cycling cameras in the dark. Frame rate does not have to be high, 30-20fps should do the job, bet resolution as high as possible and should work in the dark. Does such camera exist?
The Virb isn't the best around, but even it does a decent job of number plates in the dark, at least when the number plate is far too close.
I also disagree with TGOTB; most often, in my experience, left hookers will take you down and drive off. With a rear-facing camera you will get the reg number as they pass. With a forward facing camera you may only get a picture of the side/rear wing.
As for viewing your footage - do you REALLY have that much time on your hands? Just leave it on loop record and forget about it until someone hits you. And then hope the hit doesn't give you amnesia.0 -
I've been really torn about getting one as well, even though I'm not in the middle of urban commuting, but so often get left hook attempts across the combined bus lane/cycle path on my commute
I had 3 (mobius) in OH's car left over from my 1 year of driving 130 miles round trip , and used to, and still do i check the cards once a week to ensure they are working - but until an accident occurs, i don't touch the data.
My opinion in the car is Excess = £200. Camera = £60, 3 x £60 = 180. Proof of not at fault of accident therefore covers the excess.
On a bike? Probably the same equation?Intent on Cycling Commuting on a budget, but keep on breaking/crashing/finding nice stuff to buy.
Bike 1 (Broken) - Bike 2(Borked) - Bike 3(broken spokes) - Bike 4( Needs Work) - Bike 5 (in bits) - Bike 6* ...0 -
I've used my Go Pro (helmet mounted) on one commute. Looked at the crisp, HD quality footage....of me looking at the delightful young lady pedestrians en route.....
Guilty as charged, coming home through Bristol city centre at 22:40 when the clubbers are about is very distracting :oops:It's a tough one. For insurance purposes you'd want a plate clearly visible, which i don't think is possible with current affordable ( up to,say £500 ) cycling cameras in the dark. Frame rate does not have to be high, 30-20fps should do the job, bet resolution as high as possible and should work in the dark. Does such camera exist?
My Garmin Virb is better at night than other cameras I've had in the past, not good in pitch black for number plates but we all ride with lights after dark so there is enough light to pick up VRNs etc.
There are days when nothing of note happens but the day I don't have a camera on will be the day I have an incident.I've added a signature to prove it is still possible.0 -
It was a wrong move not to get a rear view camera. You will regret not having it in case of, god forbid, hit and run.
There is no need to keep reviewing footage and lose sleep over close passes all the time - just make sure camera works every now and then and ignore the recordings if no accidents occur.
Had a look at night time Virb Elite footage and could not make out any plates apart for rear of stationary vehicles at lights.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5embR-eULA
I think if a car hits you from behind ( the main event cyclist cannot control no matter how safe he tries to be on the road ), in the dark, camera will be blinded by car's front lights and no plate will be visible.0 -
<snip> in the dark, camera will be blinded by car's front lights and no plate will be visible.
This is very true. HDR does nothing for this either - even most very complicated, very expensive cameras can't cope with this level of exposure variation. Post processing can sometimes make it a bit more readable, but based on a number of camera systems/recordings I've seen, this is the big tech challenge - auto detection and exclusion of point source lights.Intent on Cycling Commuting on a budget, but keep on breaking/crashing/finding nice stuff to buy.
Bike 1 (Broken) - Bike 2(Borked) - Bike 3(broken spokes) - Bike 4( Needs Work) - Bike 5 (in bits) - Bike 6* ...0 -
It was a wrong move not to get a rear view camera. You will regret not having it in case of, god forbid, hit and run.
There is no need to keep reviewing footage and lose sleep over close passes all the time - just make sure camera works every now and then and ignore the recordings if no accidents occur.
Had a look at night time Virb Elite footage and could not make out any plates apart for rear of stationary vehicles at lights.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5embR-eULA
I think if a car hits you from behind ( the main event cyclist cannot control no matter how safe he tries to be on the road ), in the dark, camera will be blinded by car's front lights and no plate will be visible.
My commute is not in the urban jungle that London is, but in Cambridge and I am off road for at least 30 to 40% of the ride. I mainly decided against it because of not wanting to become a YouTube vigilante, I know I have it in me to be one. From what you said, front lights will blind the camera and the plates will not be visible, so even a bigger reason not to get one.x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x
Commuting / Winter rides - Jamis Renegade Expert
Pootling / Offroad - All-City Macho Man Disc
Fast rides Cannondale SuperSix Ultegra0 -
Maybe i am too obsessed with getting a clear shot of the reg plate. Having car's model, colour and exact time should let the officials find it on traffic cameras.
I get your reasoning, though, Cambridge and offroad might be a different matter.0 -
Sometimes I would like to have a camera, like the other day when a car got really close behind, started revving his engine, started beeping and then did a really close overtake. For these events I would have liked to have a camera then but it doesn't happen very often.x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x
Commuting / Winter rides - Jamis Renegade Expert
Pootling / Offroad - All-City Macho Man Disc
Fast rides Cannondale SuperSix Ultegra0 -
I think you made the right decision. If you'd had a camera what would you do with the footage? Play it back a couple of times and get wound up every time you see it? Think about reporting him so watch it again and get wound up again. Go through the hassle of reporting him which will probably get you wound up again. At the end of all that you might be told it's not worth pursuing, I think we can guess the effect that would have.Sometimes I would like to have a camera, like the other day when a car got really close behind, started revving his engine, started beeping and then did a really close overtake. For these events I would have liked to have a camera then but it doesn't happen very often.
This kind of thing will happen far more often than actually getting knocked off and having to make a claim. When I got doored there was no camera footage, but I still got paid out as the driver was clearly in the wrong.0 -
I think you made the right decision. If you'd had a camera what would you do with the footage? Play it back a couple of times and get wound up every time you see it? Think about reporting him so watch it again and get wound up again. Go through the hassle of reporting him which will probably get you wound up again. At the end of all that you might be told it's not worth pursuing, I think we can guess the effect that would have.Sometimes I would like to have a camera, like the other day when a car got really close behind, started revving his engine, started beeping and then did a really close overtake. For these events I would have liked to have a camera then but it doesn't happen very often.
This kind of thing will happen far more often than actually getting knocked off and having to make a claim. When I got doored there was no camera footage, but I still got paid out as the driver was clearly in the wrong.
What would happen to the footage? Nothing. Nothing needs to happen to it. Don't waste time reviewing unless there's an incident. What am i missing here?
Unless you are of type that will look at a chocolate bar after diner and eat it despite knowing it's stealing your calorie deficit achievement ( i need a term for 'stealing gains', coming from weight lifting )0 -
If you're only ever going to use the footage after an actual accident, fine. But how long before you're tempted to use the footage to report someone's dangerous driving?What would happen to the footage? Nothing. Nothing needs to happen to it. Don't waste time reviewing unless there's an incident. What am i missing here?
If someone does something dangerous but doesn't actually cause an accident, and you have no footage, you will hopefully walk away from it, forget about it, and get on with the rest of your life. However, if you do have the footage, there's a temptation to "do something about it". Although I'm sure a few individuals do this out of the goodness of their hearts, I get the impression that many do it to gain some sort of revenge. That sort of activity is going to encourage you to dwell on the event, increase your blood pressure, and generally reduce your quality of life.
The next step down the slippery slope is to start becoming some sort of vigilante, recording and attempting to "do something about" every transgression you witness. Again, bad for the blood pressure, and it's going to take up a lot of time when you could be doing something that makes you happy, rather than dwelling on things that make you angry.
Any further down the slippery slope, and you end up actually putting yourself into dangerous situations, in order to have an opportunity to prove you were in the right. I think we've all witnessed examples of this, either in real life or on YouTube.
Some years ago I went through a phase of shouting at people who cut me up, left-hooked me etc. This never actually did any good, and after a while I realised that the aggro was turning me into someone I didn't want to be, and limiting my enjoyment of cycling.
YMMV, but I'm happier to ride without a camera, and concentrate my efforts on avoiding being involved in accidents in the first place. There are plenty of things you can do to minimise the risk of being involved in an accident, even one in which a cyclist is rear-ended by a motor vehicle. The money you saved on cameras can then be spent on some nice meals out, or something else that makes you happy.Pannier, 120rpm.0 -
The bit where Gabriel said there was an incident with a car beeping and a close pass?
I think you made the right decision. If you'd had a camera what would you do with the footage? Play it back a couple of times and get wound up every time you see it? Think about reporting him so watch it again and get wound up again. Go through the hassle of reporting him which will probably get you wound up again. At the end of all that you might be told it's not worth pursuing, I think we can guess the effect that would have.Sometimes I would like to have a camera, like the other day when a car got really close behind, started revving his engine, started beeping and then did a really close overtake. For these events I would have liked to have a camera then but it doesn't happen very often.
This kind of thing will happen far more often than actually getting knocked off and having to make a claim. When I got doored there was no camera footage, but I still got paid out as the driver was clearly in the wrong.
What would happen to the footage? Nothing. Nothing needs to happen to it. Don't waste time reviewing unless there's an incident. What am i missing here?
Unless you are of type that will look at a chocolate bar after diner and eat it despite knowing it's stealing your calorie deficit achievement ( i need a term for 'stealing gains', coming from weight lifting )0 -
Huh? Aggressive, intimidating driving with beeping and close passing is an Incident and needs reporting to authorities, potentially saving life in the future.
Thanks to TGOTB for a vivid description of a successful recovery story of a GoPro Vigilante, haha. I think i get it now. We all need more Zen.0 -
If you're only ever going to use the footage after an actual accident, fine. But how long before you're tempted to use the footage to report someone's dangerous driving?What would happen to the footage? Nothing. Nothing needs to happen to it. Don't waste time reviewing unless there's an incident. What am i missing here?
That's right, dangerous drivers should be ignored, or better yet, tacitly encouraged. Do nothing, folks.0 -
Pretty much. Too many people try to save the World, and end up making it worse.That's right, dangerous drivers should be ignored, or better yet, tacitly encouraged. Do nothing, folks.Pannier, 120rpm.0 -
I do have a camera but I rarely use it. Original Go Pro HD Hero. Cost me £300 in about 2010 but cheaper versions are now available.
I bought it mainly to film my MTB adventures but I have used it a few times to record various road rides/commutes but only for entertainment purposes e.g. edit some fun looking bits together to music and share with cycling buddies. Everyone else thinks they are boring (well probably my cycling buddies do too but I don't care).
Don't get one for 'protection'. you will only end up stressing yourself out.
Bad drivers should be reported but you don't need a camera to do that.FCN = 40
