Bad noisy sounds after a new M9000 installation

tomerg

Hi, I got a new M9000 XTR set for my bike (A Merida BIG7 CF 3000).
Needless to say I waited for this a long time and took my bike and the parts to a dedicated workshop for the installation.

After the installation I did my first spin and I got some really bad cracking sounds, it happens with every pedal stroke, went back to the shop they recheck everything again with no luck.
I can't ride my bike, the noise is very loud and kind of scary.

I don't know what to do..
I created a dropbox folder with some pic of the bike and parts and 2 vids, first shows the problem and demonstrate the sounds and the second is to show what is ok.

Any help will be appreciated !

Pic and 2 vids folder
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/cvtuloidvjzr9u7/AAAPxLmfcNK92yncfxRAOro8a?dl=0

Link directly to the vid with the problem (need speakers)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pzkxj1uznv0tpty/20151016_164532.mp4?dl=0

* The vids are of high quality, Dropbox sometimes auto reduce resolution so better to download the files.

Thank you for having a look
Tom

The Rookie

Is it the right chain, looks like it's hitting the sprocket either side of the one in use!

cooldad

What Rookie said, looks like an old chain, and probably the wrong size.

What sort of workshop are they - dedicated to tractors?

PaulDHayes

If not the wrong chain, then check the derailer is mounted correctly against the stop the hanger, that the chain is routed correctly through the derailer cage, and the the top jockey wheel is not contacting the cassette.

tomerg

Hi Guys, thank you for your answers.

All the parts are new from the box, the chain is HG900 HG-X SIL-TEC Chain (11-speed), and i checked that the direction is correct (marking is facing outside).

What sort of workshop are they - dedicated to tractors?

lol

The chain is routing correctly in the rear derailleur, and I think as much as i can tell that the derailleur is mounted correctly.
I played a lot with the Tension, the put the upper pulley closer or further away from the sprockets with no luck.

Do you think this noise can created from a wrong size chain, too many links ?
Thank you
Tomer.

Rightarmbad

I've heard a noise very similar to that from a misaligned top cog and hence movement in the cluster from not being clamped tight onto the freehub body.

From the video and pictures:

Chain appears to be routed correctly.
Top pulley clears cluster, probably by way too much.
Noise sounds very coggy, like a wrong chain.

I suspect that it is a 10 speed chain on there.
Check tightness of hanger.
Check installation of cluster.
Check cluster for broken carriers.
Check hanger alignment isn't skewing the chain onto the cluster.

Also check freehub pawls for distortion. Just because the cassette fits doesn't mean that the body is rated for the torque of that large a cog.
One of the reasons why it took Shimano so long to offer a 36t rear was that it's hubs were not rated for it.
No doubt your current wheel was designed before any thought of dinner plate cogs going on there.

tomerg

Thank you for your time with this problem!

I will take my bike to a different shop, ask them to disassemble and check all the points you mentioned.
If any other suggestions about the problem, please let me know and i will have the shop to check.

I will update.
Tom

swod1

The bike shop has probably mixed up the parts and put wrong chain on.

It doesn't sound like a creaky bottom bracket that's for sure.

11spd chain will be narrower, wonder if you got sent a road bike chain by mistake are they different?

Maybe the limits on the rear mech need a tweak?

Dirtydog11

Some issues been reported with regards to the new XTR cassettes, I believe it's caused by the the carbon carrier, would try different cassette.

njee20

Yep, XTR (and Dura Ace) cassettes can creak horrendously, try a different cassette to eliminate that (get your LBS to do it rather than buying one id say).

The Rookie

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19724671#p19724671]tomerg[/url] wrote:

Thank you for your time with this problem!

I will take my bike to a different shop, ask them to disassemble and check all the points you mentioned.
If any other suggestions about the problem, please let me know and i will have the shop to check.

I will update.
Tom

Or just look at the side of the chain for a 9,10 or 11? Also the HG number to see if it is an XTR chain?

tomerg

Hi,
The chain is CN-HG900 11 (I bought all the set online and take it to the shop),

My bike are 2014 model that came with 2X10 XT set, and I changed them to 1X11 XTR set,
Can it be that my noise and problem is due to a very bad chain line ?

Thank you
Tom

njee20

Possible certainly.

tomerg

I found this article about the M9000
http://www.bike-advisor.com/reviews/review-shimano-1x11-m9000-drivetrain-2015.html

But i don't understand the following line:

You should mind when mounting the chainwheel, because it has to sit at a 70-degree angle rather than a 90-degree one, which also means that you can’t use any other ring than the one coming from Shimano

I am using Shimano 1X11 32 teeth ring, is there something else to check or to do here ?

Also they suggest to remove the drive-train side spacer, if i remove it should i put him on the non drive side or just remove it completely ?

Really appreciate all the help I am getting here !

Tom

The Rookie

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19725257#p19725257]tomerg[/url] wrote:

Hi,
The chain is CN-HG900 11 (I bought all the set online and take it to the shop),

Did you CHECK, or have you assumed it was the right chain in the box and fitted?

Looking at the photos the chain looks too wide.

tomerg

Hi I assumed that i am getting a 11 speed chain, on the chain i can see marking HG-X11.
I have a measurement tool at home.
Should i check something ?

THX

Chunkers1980

Rather than a riding video - turn the bike upside down and take a video of the whole system while peddling the bike by hand.

njee20

Id be stunned if it was the wrong chain. Dunno why everyone's latched onto that, seems really unlikely to me.

tomerg

Hi Guys I have some new data on the problem

After spending the all afternoon in the bike store i have new data.
The noise is caused by the chain, we changed my chain to a (I think that's the brand) YBZ 11X chain and no noise at all from the bike.

We did several more steps
1) Recheck my Shimano chain length (and removed 1 link).
2) Add a quick link to the chain in order to remove the bumpy connector pin that comes in Shimano chains.
3) Change the BB spacer to the non drive side to create a better chain line.

This 3 steps reduce the noise but its still there,
The shop called Shimano in my country and Shimano advise was to do 2 or 3 rides with the noise to see if the chain saddles in and the noise eliminated.

I will update on the results, we don't know why this chain is so noisy but at list we know that's the part to silence.

Thx
Tom

Rightarmbad

Shimano chains don't have a bumpy connector unless fitted carelessly.

keef66

It will be a YBN chain.

Still sounds like you didn't have an 11 speed Shimano chain to start with. And ditto: the connector pin shouldn't be bumpy (whatever that means) if it's properly installed...

tomerg

Hi,
In the shop we used a tool to measure both chains for inside and outside and both chains were identical.

About the bumpy connector I will explain:
If you look here in Shimano document about the chain http://si.shimano.com/php/download.php?file=pdf/dm/DM-CN0001-03-ENG.pdf
you can see that the connector pin in a successful installation should be "Slightly protruding", thats the bump i mentioned.

Thank you
Tom