Trying to date a supposedly Peugeot frame...

ajoten

Yesyesyes I know there are sources on the web for old Pug catalogues and hints of serial numbers etc etc. But I am at a loss.

Given the following features...

• Simplex horizontal dropouts
• Front mech bracket brazed on
• Allegedly 531 tubing (a "531 Renovated" sticker indicating a respray and indicating the Pug decals aren't original - but it is nice and light)
• Cable guided under not over top tube
• Serial number of Y8090814 hinting at 1978

does anyone have a clue what years that might mean? I can find later models with those cable guides but v few in UK brochures, several ages of horizontal dropouts and NONE with braze on mechs.

rolf_f

Has the frame got any components with it? Might be worth looking at the dates of those.

As for the braze on front mech - I would say odds on that is a red herring. I can't say I have noticed any bike of that era having a braze on mech. I don't recall seeing mechs of that era having braze on mounts either. I would expect the braze on was part of the refurb (though really a slightly odd thing to do but I suppose if you had the mech already, having the mount brazed on might be cheaper than swapping the mech).

Chat noir

From the serial number this is 1988 (I have a 531 Pro from 1988, although mine begins with a B, not a Y). Some Peugeots did have cable guides under top tube, eg my 1990 653 - serial number Y002C207. So long since I've been on here can't for the life of me work out how to upload a photo, or I could show it and allow you to compare the numbers.

Peugeot liked to put chrome on frame and forks at this time, even when they painted over the chrome, like with the 653, so that also might be indicator. Style of lugs, cluster under the seat post ('fastback'), location of blow holes on the forks and stays, presence of chain peg on seat stay, pump pip on head tube, all further indicators of a Peugeot from this period. Also, might not have been built for UK market. Finally, if you have a bare frame and forks, what's the weight? In 1988 Peugeot were using 531, 531 Pro and 753, as well as some Columbus tubing, and their own, heavier tubing. But, not come across brazed on front mechs - a puzzle.

Good luck.

rolf_f

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19729831#p19729831]Chat noir[/url] wrote:

From the serial number this is 1988 (I have a 531 Pro from 1988, although mine begins with a B, not a Y). Some Peugeots did have cable guides under top tube, eg my 1990 653 - serial number Y002C207. So long since I've been on here can't for the life of me work out how to upload a photo, or I could show it and allow you to compare the numbers.

You need to upload to eg Photobucket and post the link (in IMG tabs).

ajoten

Ah, thanks for that. Does indeed have a thingy on the headtube for a pump. Hidden chrome on the lugs would be exciting though I don't know why you'd cover it up on a respray.

I'll put up a pic just in case. All the components are wrong (including the fork).

Chat noir

Think I've got it now!



All this will show is what the letters / numbers looked like. The 653 Athena had chrome forks then painted pink and I know some people take the paint off to reveal the chrome. You can also see the cable guide under the bottom bracket - would be surprised if this wasn't original on the frame you have.

The little holes at the end of the seat and wheel stays are very close to the drop outs, and I've not seen this pattern on any other frames: on the forks there's two on each side, on the inside, at the top and the bottom. If you've got these you've got a Peugeot.

If you need any other pictures, let me know and I'll see what I can do.

ajoten

(Sorry, I forgot to thank people for their contributions.)

I do have those holes on the stays.

I did find some in http://cyclespeugeot.com/PDFs/1994French.pdf that look likely candidates:

PF610/600, pages 8-9, if the 531 sticker is to be believed.

But v similar paint job as CP400E page 11 – however wrong steel (i.e. don't believe sticker).

But no, those dropouts all wrong. Horizontal dropouts feature in lower spec tubing further down the catalogue and don’t have the pump pip at the back of the head tube.

rolf_f

I think you need to be methodical - ie over what period did they use your cable braze on's under the top tube. During what period where they making bikes in 531 with horizontal dropouts (eg in 1990 or so the Peugeot Triathlon was in 531 main tubes and had horizontal dropouts, pump peg but top mounted cable routing). That way hopefully you'll narrow it down to a relatively few number of years and a precise id might be possible.

ajoten

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19736779#p19736779]Rolf F[/url] wrote:

I think you need to be methodical - ie over what period did they use your cable braze on's under the top tube. During what period where they making bikes in 531 with horizontal dropouts (eg in 1990 or so the Peugeot Triathlon was in 531 main tubes and had horizontal dropouts, pump peg but top mounted cable routing). That way hopefully you'll narrow it down to a relatively few number of years and a precise id might be possible.

Good idea - I've now compiled a large spreadsheet of all 531 tubed Pugs 1978-1994 noting components and brazes where I could:

• The dropout style changed 88 > 89
• The top tube cable routing changed 89 > 90
• Last year of downtube shifters 89

So while there is no year that had models with all my features, I guess there might have been a few frames that were a bit mixed up in that time. Although that doesn't explain why it was (presumably) repainted to look like a 1994 lower spec bike and lied about the steel.

And it's all rather disappointing as Eroica requires pre 87 (and I was given to think it more than 5 years older older than that anyway). Don't really know what to do with all this information now in terms of kitting it out (and potentially having to sell all this stuff I've only just bought).

Boo!