Over 50 Riding Advice pls......
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I'm 52 knocking on 53 and took up cycling about 3 years ago - best thing I've done especially as my job means sitting on my backside flying from A to B- lost 10kgs and have never been fitter. Do I push myself, well yes especially when out with the "boys"....I am now based in Hong Kong and doing the 3 Peaks in Australia next March; 230Kms and three big climbs in a single day - must be mad!
Couple of my colleagues both over 60 just completed the Dolomites Haute Route....
However, just do what suits you, but I can thoroughly recommend cycling as a way of keeping in shape, especially as one gets older - not the wear and tear on the joints like running.
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I turned 50 this year. Started cycling again in 2008, and gradually built up distance and frequency. Purchased nice bike 3 years ago and really upped the riding. This year I was inside the fastest 250 riders at Velothon Wales (inside top 90 on the Tumble), rode the Etape du Tour (inside top 400 on the Glandon) and banged out Ride London in 4.30, with a time (on the day) in the top 190 on Box Hill. The week i have in the alps around the Etape was one of the best weeks I've ever had.
5 years ago I would never have thought i'd be able to achieve all this, but start slowly and build up. I've never been heavy but my weight has dropped from about 79 kg to just under 72 kgs atm and I was just over 70 kg for the Etape.
To improve at anything you have to challenge yourself, and if you can get faster, you'll be able to travel further in the time you have available!
With concerns about your heart however I would first seek medical advice, find out your max safe heart rate and then consider at the very least a heart rate monitor and possibly power meter too. When you know the safe zones, push yourself a little - you'll really feel the benefits, and set yourself some goals for next year.
The most important thing is you're getting out there though.0 -
I am minded of a phrase.
1/2 hour light exercise is better than 1/2 hour watching TV.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
i'm 55, i love pushing myself until i start to grey out. i don't do it all the time, or even frequently. but 'chest heaving' is something i do on nearly every ride.
if you're worried by your own medical and family history, have a chat with the GP. get some tests done and then the peace of mind will help you ride which ever way you want.
my view is that due to late onset asthma, if i don't push myself then my lung capacity will slowly get less and less. my muscle tone will decrease and i'll get old quicker than i want.
i use a HRM and when i initially found my max HR i realised that what i thought was the hardest effort i could ever do was only about 70-80% of max. now i can cruise at 80-85% and know i have another 15% to give for short bursts.
for me 'pootling' on a bike is at 60- 70% or so, and if i'm not watching this creeps up to 80% before i realise. I can't pootle when out on my own. But i'm not competitive, I don't race and am not worried by being passed by anyone.
I love riding my bike and have no intention of giving it up unless i have to. and then i may get an electric one.--
Burls Ti Tourer for Tarmac, Saracen aluminium full suss for trails0 -
Well, clearly I am in a minority, and many of my age like to max it out regularly !
However, I remain unconvinced at the wisdom of it in 'maturing' years.......
I went for a 'Well Man' Checkup yesterday, which showed my Blood Pressure completely normal, and my Cholesterol at 3.7, so delighted with that, very low.
Also, my HR was steady, and normal :-)
Only blot was that at 5'11", my 95kg shows me as 'overweight, but as the Nurse admitted, it makes no allowance for build or muscle mass, and my frame is pretty solid tbh. I'm only half a stone heavier now than when I was 20.....
That said, I also have an appointment with my Doc next week, to discuss HR & AF specifically, and his recommendations as to how hard to push, given my own background, and fathers history.
Once done, I'm thinking that a HR monitor may well be good to allow me to work to specific zones all within safe limits, but somehow, I feel sure, my riding wont change that much.0 -
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Once done, I'm thinking that a HR monitor may well be good to allow me to work to specific zones all within safe limits, but somehow, I feel sure, my riding wont change that much.
HRM is absolutely no use and possibly even dangerous if you don't know your max. you have to work extremely painfully hard to know your max. you have to push yourself harder than you thought possibly, until you grey out and are nearly vomiting from the effort.
if you don't do that at least once to find your max you're just winging it.
if you can do it once, then you can do it again and you might find your max was not your max. you need you keep doing it fairly often.
once you have your upper limit, unless you keep pushing up to it, it will slowly creep down.--
Burls Ti Tourer for Tarmac, Saracen aluminium full suss for trails0 -
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Once done, I'm thinking that a HR monitor may well be good to allow me to work to specific zones all within safe limits, but somehow, I feel sure, my riding wont change that much.
HRM is absolutely no use and possibly even dangerous if you don't know your max. you have to work extremely painfully hard to know your max. you have to push yourself harder than you thought possibly, until you grey out and are nearly vomiting from the effort.
if you don't do that at least once to find your max you're just winging it.
if you can do it once, then you can do it again and you might find your max was not your max. you need you keep doing it fairly often.
once you have your upper limit, unless you keep pushing up to it, it will slowly creep down.
I wont for a minute be thinking of working to my 'Max physically possible' HR, more to what a Medically Qualified person would advise, for my Age/condition.0 -
[quote="Zak3737...
I wont for a minute be thinking of working to my 'Max physically possible' HR, more to what a Medically Qualified person would advise, for my Age/condition.[/quote]
but they won't know what that is unless they do a very strenuous test. they may give you the very safe formulae 220-age (or whatever it is), but that is going to be meaningless. probably underestimating by a huge amount, showing you're on zone 5 when just breaking a sweat.
also possible but unlikely, is that the formulae will be too much the other way and you'll die getting to zone 4.
using a HRM without knowing your max is a waste of money. it's like saying you can put out 1000w because strava has estimated that from a discrepancy in your ride.--
Burls Ti Tourer for Tarmac, Saracen aluminium full suss for trails0 -
LOL - but equally, to go & thrash myself to stupid limits to the point of puking up and turning grey would be dangerous anyway, and reckless imo.
I think I'll go with Medical/Professional advice thank you.0 -
Do you walk around draped in cotton wool too?0
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LOL - but equally, to go & thrash myself to stupid limits to the point of puking up and turning grey would be dangerous anyway, and reckless imo.
I think I'll go with Medical/Professional advice thank you.
ok, just trying to save you money.--
Burls Ti Tourer for Tarmac, Saracen aluminium full suss for trails0 -
LOL - but equally, to go & thrash myself to stupid limits to the point of puking up and turning grey would be dangerous anyway, and reckless imo.
I think I'll go with Medical/Professional advice thank you.
ok, just trying to save you money.
Thx, but Health Check up was free, as is the Doc's appointment :-)
He's a fitness nut too, so I think well placed to offer me sensible advice.
As for the Cotton Wool comment, its not paranoia, but with a history of Heart issues for my father, and AF for myself occasionally, I think i'm just being sensible thanks.0 -
Fair do's, didn't really understand AF, but now having read a few sentences about it I understand where your coming from. Have you given up alcohol?
Just reading the OP about blokes popping their clogs out for a ride... most Mamils out there won't have done any serious exercise since they left school 30 years ago.
As the other poster said though, you'll never know your max unless you do a test rendering a hrm useless. A Dr. won't be able to tell you either and some are a lot lower than what the above calculation.0 -
LOL - but equally, to go & thrash myself to stupid limits to the point of puking up and turning grey would be dangerous anyway, and reckless imo.
I think I'll go with Medical/Professional advice thank you.
ok, just trying to save you money.
Thx, but Health Check up was free, as is the Doc's appointment :-)
He's a fitness nut too, so I think well placed to offer me sensible advice.
As for the Cotton Wool comment, its not paranoia, but with a history of Heart issues for my father, and AF for myself occasionally, I think i'm just being sensible thanks.
i meant for buying a HRM.--
Burls Ti Tourer for Tarmac, Saracen aluminium full suss for trails0 -
OK 220 minus your age is not accurate, but as a rough average estimate it's useable. You might be way above it or way below it, but if you're going to be working between 50 and 75/85% of that maximum value, you're going to be pretty unlucky if you find you're over-exerting yourself or redlining. I'd say using a HR monitor is pretty sensible. I use a powermeter for similar reasons but I do do a CP20 test (yes I know it isn't as accurate as a 60 min FTP test) at frequent intervals.I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.0
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Interesting thread - attitude to exercise and what you enjoy is the biggest factor I think, everything else follows from that.
I'm only 48 but I'm absolutely determined to keep going and push as hard as I do now for as long as I can. I love that lung-bursting, chest-thudding feeling after sprinting up a hill with my arms tingling and brain fogging slightly from lack of o2.. For me it's just exhilarating to feel my body working at full throttle and propelling me forward as fast as it can. I have the opposite problem to the OP in that I'm always going out for 35 mile blasts at full pelt and find it more difficult to summon up the will for longer, slower rides even though I know I should do more of these to train endurance. I can completely appreciate why some people go cycling to see the countryside and enjoy the scenery, but I'd rather go walking for that and when I'm on the bike I fully admit I'm looking at the power meter and speedo as much as the surroundings--- The only thing that might make me think I'm pushing too hard is if I get nauseous, and it's quite difficult to push that hard. ;-)
I suspect (all intuitive, don't quote me on it and don't treat it as advice in any way..) that if you maintain a really good level of fitness on a regular basis the chances of suddenly dropping dead from over exertion are less than the chances of dropping dead at random as a consequence of simply being less fit and having a cardiovascular system in less good condition. Besides, with cycling these days you can keep a pretty close eye on how everything is ticking over, you can see your 1 minute HR recovery, the precise relationship of HR to power and how that varies with fitness on a weekly and monthly basis. I can't help thinking that if anything was suddenly going to go drastically wrong I'd probably see a few flickers on the dials first...0 -
As the OP, it certainly has been interesting to see the different attitudes to riding & exercise etc, and how some love that burn, while others like me, largely avoid it and just enjoy the ride.
Re the 220 - Age MHR rule, - I played golf later this afternoon and with a good buddy who's been a Pro footballer all his life, (Premiership too) now a Head Coach at a Championship side, and we got talking about this, & he was definitely of the opinion that whilst its ok to push a little now & then, and is good for you, constant testing of extremes and maxing out at 53 is a decidedly dangerous and less than sensible path to tread, whatever your past fitness history.0 -
Sounds like your golfing buddy is telling you exactly what you want to hear, despite plenty on here telling you the exact opposite - so in a spirit of confirmation bias, let me just add "yes that is definitely correct."0
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Fair do's, didn't really understand AF, but now having read a few sentences about it I understand where your coming from. Have you given up alcohol?
Not given up completely, yet, but definitely in my mind.
I partake in a couple of beers or G&T's late afternoon occasionally, but never really drink much after 7pm, it just wrecks my nights sleep.0 -
Sounds like your golfing buddy is telling you exactly what you want to hear, despite plenty on here telling you the exact opposite - so in a spirit of confirmation bias, let me just add "yes that is definitely correct."
Thanks, I thought so......
Ps - Just because there are quite a few who do still thrash themselves into their 50's and later, doesnt necessarily mean its the right, or sensible thing to do......0 -
If there was a significant amount of evidence to suggest that it was dangerous, we'd be being warned against it by the medical profession. There are enough people in their 50s these days training at a fairly high level. Haven't really heard a squeak out of them about that sort of thing though, beyond the usual cautions that you shouldn't suddenly START exercising if you have been inactive for some time without getting a ckeck-up first.
Ps - Just because there are quite a few who do still thrash themselves into their 50's and later, doesnt necessarily mean its the right, or sensible thing to do......0 -
re: the 220-age. it's just numbers the medical profession dreamed for arse covering. it is really a way of ensuring people to don't overexert regardless of current fitness.
my max according to the formulae is 165 bpm. the highest i can get it is 191 and i base my efforts on that. my wife is my age and would also have the same 165 as her max, but it is actually 201. my brother who is 4 years younger than me should use 170, but his is also 191. my daughter is 35, hers should be 185, but found to be 202.
none of these would be any good for using a hrm, i'd be shown as maxing out when only getting in to my cruising zone 4. to get out of the red i'd be down in zone 3 in reality. this is one of my warmup zones, i'm not even breathing heavy in zone 3.
you may as well ride on feel because if you're not using numbers or zones then there's no point using the hrm.
it's like putting a rev counter in your car but not knowing the danger limits of the engine, to be safe you'd keep the revs down low and that may not be the most efficient range.--
Burls Ti Tourer for Tarmac, Saracen aluminium full suss for trails0 -
Ok, points taken, ta.
Seriously though, I arent going to go out and attempt to see what my 'Max' is, whether ist 191 or 201, I really really dont think it would be wise at 53, & thats just my opinion and how I feel about my ticker.
Our general riding sees us in Cruising mode most of the time, with occasional blasts in a peloton when we need to get somewhere, but I'm rarely 'all out' on the flat, its only when the terrain goes up that my efforts and pulse rise, due to my 95kg weight obviously, not to mention my 'cant be @rsed attitude to climbing quickly.
When I get to that point, I just click down and spin up, and take my time, the others will wait.
But of course, come the downs, gravity is my mate, & I can pass friends even when freewheeling ;-)
Its clear that I'm inherently lazy on a bike, to a point, but I like to think of it more as 'keen to enjoy the ride/views/company' !
If I can go out & cover 60/70 miles relatively easily, I'm as content with my fitness as I think I need to be.0 -
I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.0
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Interesting ......
"The overall findings suggest that repeated grueling workouts stress the heart muscle — not just the skeletal muscles — and that chronic damage can lead to heart troubles."
.....and I'm glad to say that none of my own cycling is remotely close to 'grueling'.
Meeting with Doc next week and will await his comments re my own AF/Family History etc, and indeed also plan to ask him about cutting out Alcohol completely too. Certainly a consideration.0 -
there is no way i would put my efforts in the 'extreme athlete' category. all research i've read is saying that the way i exercise makes me healthier and likely to live longer and stay fitter.
a lot of age related fitness research seems to say that long term cyclists who ride regularly live on average 10 years longer than non cyclists.--
Burls Ti Tourer for Tarmac, Saracen aluminium full suss for trails0 -
Some interesting opinions about max heart rate going down. I'm pretty sure no one actually dreamt it up, but it's a mean across the population, and I'd imagine using a large sample.
As it's an average, then there's plenty of people going to be off the centre of the bell curve, and probably a few extreme examples reading this thread too. Just to apply a bit of a balance, - a few years ago I spent a bit of time with one of the GB sports scientists to establish my max HR, and after a couple of hours, and lots of tests, it turned out to be.......220 minus my age. So for me, my age/HR relationship is average. But at least determining it, means I can train in the right zones. I don't think there's anything medical you can read into that.
As a side note, another physio, not the one mentioned above, told me that it was almost impossible to reach your true max HR on a bike, - you just simply aren't engaging enough muscle groups. Whether that's true or not I'm not sure, - it seems logical enough, but I've got to admit when I'm right on the rivet on the bike, it feels like a max to me. Mind you, 200m sprints in a pool are deeply unpleasant, and probably the nearest I've come to flaking out while exercising.0 -
I remember looking at that research when it first came out (it was picked up by a lot of the cycling/fitness press), and if I remember, the issues they detected (which were only in some individuals and dubiously impacting on long-term health anyway) were associated more with extreme endurance activity than with pushing aerobic/anaerobic limits, i.e. doing events of many hours duration at a high intensity very regularly.
I actually think the mistake a lot of older people make is tending to steer increasingly towards long duration, lower intensity exercise, when there's some evidence that for cardiovascular and metabolic health high intensity, short duration efforts are actually very beneficial - I mean 30 second intervals, that sort of thing. Of course, even the "short blast" high-intensity type of cycling style is more towards endurance overall than that is.0 -
Both my parents had heart attacks.
In my mother's case the second one was fatal, but I'm guessing a lifetime of smoking, biscuits, Black Magic* and inactivity was a major contributory factor. I think she was 66.
Dad was a lifetime non-smoker, walker and cyclist, but his diet wasn't the best. He was I think 80 when he keeled over, fortunately in a bus station with lots of people and soon paramedics, and despite the damage he'd done, he made a decent recovery going on till nearly 92.
So neither of them really premature; I'm hoping that means my genes are OK. I figure the best things I can do for my health are to keep my weight in check, eat a sensible diet, exercise frequently, and include in that some all-out efforts to really test my limits. And not suddenly start smoking.
I only really returned to road cycling at 50. At 52 I was still improving, and I certainly wasn't thinking I should be taking it easy. Now at 58 I notice I'm getting slower again, and like it or not I see my muscle mass is declining. Endurance is still pretty good though, and I like the feeling at the end of a ride that I'm close to being completely spent and thinking I couldn't have gone any faster / further. And for mental health cycling is many times more effective than citalopram / paroxetine / mirtazapine and their friends.
I get palpitations quite frequently, but the doc has persuaded me they are harmless, and often self-inflicted by too much caffeine and / or panic attacks so I now just ignore them. If I had any kind of proper arrhythmia I'd take medical advice, get properly tested, then do what the medics advised. No offence, but I wouldn't be on here asking a bunch of strangers...
As far as I can tell, if you have AF, you're no more likely to end up in hospital if you do strenuous exercise than if you do nothing. I have an idea that 99% of the time exercise trumps lying on the sofa eating chicken tikka masala and garlic naan.
If I am going to have a heart attack I want it to be as I surge powerfully over the crest of a hill, not bloated and slumped in the toilet like Elvis.
* the chocolates rather than witchcraft.0 -
Some interesting opinions about max heart rate going down. I'm pretty sure no one actually dreamt it up, but it's a mean across the population, and I'd imagine using a large sample....
I take your point that it's not 'dreamt up'. but did the doctors/scientists/researchers, actually take a lot of people to the max?
I can't imagine that anyone other than someone interested in getting to max, actually put in the effort.
If it was a person off the street they were testing, i'd be very surprised if they were encouraged or even allowed to push themselves to max.
if it were a bunch of fit young students there would be less worries about killing someone doing the test, but that's not a representative sample.
if it were middle aged couch potatoes i don't think they would push to max, just maybe what the subject said was max.
if it was an elderly and ill subject, nowhere near max.
middle aged and fit? they would probably be able to push quite hard to max.
middle aged and ill? again probably not allowed to push to max.
So they may have mixed in info from some ill people, some fit people and some average people, and somehow come up with a number that suits everyone?
there are several different bell curves trying to fit under one umbrella.
I stand by my assertion that the numbers are basically meaningless. In my own, very small, sample. no-one was near the predicted numbers.
my own data set also shows the age part to be useless. my max number should change every year. however, my max has been the same for over the 10 years i've been using a hrm.
it's only cycling i do. due to a back injury i can't run so i'm not worried that max on a bike is less than it might be doing a more general form of exercise.--
Burls Ti Tourer for Tarmac, Saracen aluminium full suss for trails0
