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Potentially doing a macroeconomic analysis of a cycling team

bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 10,220
edited October 2015 in Pro race
Hi,

I'm doing an MBA, and have an assignment to do an economic analysis of a firm in the macro context on a company of my choice. I was thinking about Shimano (as they're semi-monopolistic with their domination of the low end), but the lecturer mentioned sports teams (Apparently some people have done football teams before) and the idea of doing something where the KPIs aren't just EBIT and ROCE etc etc sounded really appealing, basically something that isn't a normal company because that all gets a bit dull after a while. Obviously their KPIs are going to be race wins etc..

I need to be able to get financial statements back to 2006 (like the ones for Team Sky and AGR2 that were discussed on INRNG recently), I'm aware that won't be possible for many teams, and that sponsors will have changed in that time, but I'm wondering if anyone can help me identify a good team to look at (or teams as I ideally need a second team to compare them with). For starters teams which have actually been around that long would be handy! Sky obviously only started in 2009 and I'll be the first to admit I don't have a detailed knowledge of team histories.
If there's no teams with enough data I could do the UCI.

I'll be happy to post up anything I find out if anyone is remotely interested (ha). I am also aware I'm making a lot of extra work for myself compared to just doing a regular listed company...

Thanks!

*awaits flaming* (I'm not asking for anything beyond help identifying suitable teams!)

Posts

  • chrisdaychrisday Posts: 300
    Nice idea, Bob! Like you say, it's going to mean a lot of extra work, but it could potentially be interesting. Would definitely be interested in you posting what you find...

    One team that sprung to mind, if you were looking at comparing different models for the running and funding of teams, is one that, frustratingly, I can't remember the name of! It was a few years ago now - maybe mid-2000s - and based in Oz if memory serves. Tried to push themselves as being 'owned' by fans, you could sign up and subscribe. These days, they'd be callled crowdfunded, I guess. Memory's vague around the name (did it have a 'one' in it??), and indeed the details, but remember at the time thinking "this is an interesting approach".

    I'm sure someone else on here can help me on the name...

    Sorry - this felt like it was going to be a lot more of a helpful post when I started typing it!
    @shraap | My Men 2016: G, Yogi, Cav, Boonen, Degenkolb, Martin, J-Rod, Kudus, Chaves
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 10,220
    They'd need to still be going really, unfortunately.

    Basically what I need is two teams which have existed as the same entity (notwithstanding sponsorship changes) since 2006 and which publish some form of annual financial statement...
  • PeteinSQPeteinSQ Posts: 2,292
    I think you'd be sensible trying to do a british team that has to file accounts with Companies House.

    If you could identify the company that owns JLT-Condor (previously Rapha-Condor) then I think they might make a good subject.
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  • chrisdaychrisday Posts: 300
    Aaand you had already said that. My powers of observation are laser-like today ;)

    *skulks back into corner*
    @shraap | My Men 2016: G, Yogi, Cav, Boonen, Degenkolb, Martin, J-Rod, Kudus, Chaves
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 10,220
    Aaand you had already said that. My powers of observation are laser-like today ;)

    *skulks back into corner*

    To be fair, I'd not said it very clearly!
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 10,220
    I think you'd be sensible trying to do a british team that has to file accounts with Companies House.

    If you could identify the company that owns JLT-Condor (previously Rapha-Condor) then I think they might make a good subject.


    Could be a shout, if they've existed long enough.

    I need to get hold of those AG2R accounts and talk to the supervisor about whether he thinks they're adequate. It's a module about economics rather than accounting so in principle I don't need massive amounts of breakdown.

    Does the UCI have financial reporting requirements for teams? Or are the AG2R/Sky ones from Inrng produced only because of national reporting requirements?
  • PeteinSQPeteinSQ Posts: 2,292
    They've definitely existed long enough, but I don't know that the companies house reports would give you enough details.
    <a><img></a>
  • I think you'd be sensible trying to do a british team that has to file accounts with Companies House.

    If you could identify the company that owns JLT-Condor (previously Rapha-Condor) then I think they might make a good subject.


    Could be a shout, if they've existed long enough.

    I need to get hold of those AG2R accounts and talk to the supervisor about whether he thinks they're adequate. It's a module about economics rather than accounting so in principle I don't need massive amounts of breakdown.

    Does the UCI have financial reporting requirements for teams? Or are the AG2R/Sky ones from Inrng produced only because of national reporting requirements?


    Rapha sponsored Herety's team for 8 years IIRC - so back to 2007.

    UCI's Licencing Commission require teams to meet certain criteria as part of their licence applications - one of which is financial. But that's no doubt completing some form of questionnaire to back up the bank guarantees that have to be lodged. Its certainly not sets of public report & accounts.

    To be honest, I think you might struggle with this idea...procycling teams finances/economic models are just not transparent enough....
  • No_Ta_DoctorNo_Ta_Doctor Posts: 11,187
    You might get some joy with Garmin... Vaughters is doing his MBA as well and is reasonably approachable and transparent. I'm sure there's someone here that knows someone who could get you an introduction.
    “Road racing was over and the UCI had banned my riding positions on the track, so it was like ‘Jings, crivvens, help ma Boab, what do I do now? I know, I’ll go away and be depressed for 10 years’.”

    @DrHeadgear

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  • CrampeurCrampeur Posts: 1,065
    Nice idea, Bob! Like you say, it's going to mean a lot of extra work, but it could potentially be interesting. Would definitely be interested in you posting what you find...

    One team that sprung to mind, if you were looking at comparing different models for the running and funding of teams, is one that, frustratingly, I can't remember the name of! It was a few years ago now - maybe mid-2000s - and based in Oz if memory serves. Tried to push themselves as being 'owned' by fans, you could sign up and subscribe. These days, they'd be callled crowdfunded, I guess. Memory's vague around the name (did it have a 'one' in it??), and indeed the details, but remember at the time thinking "this is an interesting approach".

    I'm sure someone else on here can help me on the name...

    Sorry - this felt like it was going to be a lot more of a helpful post when I started typing it!

    iTeam/Nova
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,479
    I have nothing to contribute, but the most fun would be the Italian teams - tax evasion and occasional money laundering. That's what employers look for in a modern MBA.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Yellow PerilYellow Peril Posts: 4,466
    Will be much of any interest to see other than budget size? Success in competition won't be reflected in any "profits" will it? they don't make anything or sell anything do they? If Team Sky do well then it's Adidas or Rapha or whoever makes their kit these days that will see an increase in sales or Pinarello for their bikes.

    I would expect a cycling team's company accounts to just be a balance sheet of sponsorship in and expenditure out. Incorporation is just a vehicle of convenience.
    @JaunePeril

    Winner of the Bike Radar Pro Race Wiggins Hour Prediction Competition
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 10,220
    Will be much of any interest to see other than budget size? Success in competition won't be reflected in any "profits" will it? they don't make anything or sell anything do they? If Team Sky do well then it's Adidas or Rapha or whoever makes their kit these days that will see an increase in sales or Pinarello for their bikes.

    I would expect a cycling team's company accounts to just be a balance sheet of sponsorship in and expenditure out. Incorporation is just a vehicle of convenience.

    Yeah that's why economics of sports teams is interesting, their goals are different to normal companies.

    Anyway those ag2r accounts were sent directly to inrng, I can hardly find anything online for other teams either.

    I should just do apple or something like everyone else...
  • The_BoyThe_Boy Posts: 3,099
    Will be much of any interest to see other than budget size? Success in competition won't be reflected in any "profits" will it? they don't make anything or sell anything do they? If Team Sky do well then it's Adidas or Rapha or whoever makes their kit these days that will see an increase in sales or Pinarello for their bikes.

    I would expect a cycling team's company accounts to just be a balance sheet of sponsorship in and expenditure out. Incorporation is just a vehicle of convenience.

    Yeah that's why economics of sports teams is interesting, their goals are different to normal companies.

    Anyway those ag2r accounts were sent directly to inrng, I can hardly find anything online for other teams either.

    I should just do apple or something like everyone else...

    On his blog, he does thank the person who sent them to him, so might be worth sending an email to Mr Rng and asking for an intro?

    edit: Though you would then need to find a second team
    Team My Man 2018: David gaudu, Pierre Latour, Romain Bardet, Thibaut pinot, Alexandre Geniez, Florian Senechal, Warren Barguil, Benoit Cosnefroy
  • chrisdaychrisday Posts: 300
    @shraap | My Men 2016: G, Yogi, Cav, Boonen, Degenkolb, Martin, J-Rod, Kudus, Chaves
  • In terms of finding teams that have been around since 2006, there's the spreadsheet that someone on here did a few months ago.

    It had a historical breakdown of teams (who they were sponsored by, who they merged with etc)
  • In terms of finding teams that have been around since 2006, there's the spreadsheet that someone on here did a few months ago.

    It had a historical breakdown of teams (who they were sponsored by, who they merged with etc)



    it was @dimspace

    He'll have posted it over in Velorooms
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