Building (or buying) 2 road bikes on a budget

daniel_b

Afternoon all,

I've decided that I want to have a couple of bikes permanently in Spain at my parents place, so we can get some cheap flights over for a week, and get some sunshine and good riding in.

So I have had a look at the parts bin that I have, and bits I could use, and have worked out that I have 2 spare sets of wheels, or can make it happen, and also enough saddles, stems, seatposts and handlebars.
Not talking fancy stuff, but totally usable kit, and a lot of it barely used or new.

So if I were to go that route, I would then need 2 groupsets, and 2 frames.
For groupset I am probably going to be looking at Tiagra, hoping some 4600 sets might come in at £200ish each.
Total budget for each frame and groupset I am thinking of somewhere around £350-450.

So, assuming some of you have created such a bike before, what would you be looking for?

I'm thinking I should probably disregard the ultra cheap full carbon frames from China?
If that is the case, I am thinking about an Aluminium frame with carbon forks.
Would you consider second hand, or would you look new, and if new, would the default options be something like Planet X\Ribble, or any others that spring to mind?

Look forward to your suggestions :-)

dhope

Or just get the BTwin Alur 700 from a local Decathlon for around £700 (€1000).
11 speed 105, good reviews. Bargain. And you get to start building the Spanish Armada.

http://www.decathlon.es/bicicleta-carretera-btwin-ultra-700-aluminio-id_8324331.html

imatfaal

I think dhope has the problem nailed - although I might think of down-speccing to the Triban500 and then adding bits from home.

Although BH are a Spanish company so you might be able to source some deals there - not sure how much this one costs but it is a stunner

daniel_b

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19713309#p19713309]dhope[/url] wrote:

Or just get the BTwin Alur 700 from a local Decathlon for around £700 (€1000).
11 speed 105, good reviews. Bargain. And you get to start building the Spanish Armada.

http://www.decathlon.es/bicicleta-carretera-btwin-ultra-700-aluminio-id_8324331.html

Aha, the Alur had occurred to me, as I thought it looked an incredible deal when it was on offer in the UK for £600, and latterly £500 I think it was, but only in small sizes.

Even though £700 is still very good vfm, I don't doubt that for a second, it takes a bit of the fun out of things don't you think?
Plus, this way I get to use up a lot of kit that takes up space at the moment, so kind of a win/win.
IF a sale happened on the ES site, and it became more like £500, then it might be more tricky to disregard.

And if I can stick somewhere near budget, I'll kind of have 2 bikes for the price of 1.

Tifosi and Kinesis are two other frame manufacturers I have noticed - any good?

pollys_bott

I got a Scott Speedster S50 frame & forks from the BR classifieds a couple of years ago for £150ish, built it up to my commuter / winter bike, does the job perfectly well. If I were in your shoes I'd be doing something similar again, no point in spending lots on a bike that will only get minimal use (IMHO)...

veronese68

A friend of mine bought one of the Eastways as listed in the bargains thread. Looked phenomenal for just over £400.

chris_bass

what size frame would you need? I have a few i've been toying with the idea of selling, one (Giant Defy) has never been built/ridden!

surrey_commuter

what about buying in Spain? it must be cheaper and you would save on the cost/hassle of transportation

indyp

I've been really impressed with Kinesis T2 frame and DC07 carbon forks.

daniel_b

Cheers chaps,

yep buying in Spain could be a consideration - however if I am going the self build route, that would mean taking over a stand, and tools to complete the job over there, so not really practical.

I could send the completed bikes over, or more likely is that we do one more ferry trip across, complete with shoes and helmets, and leave everything there when we return, thus leaving plenty of room for wine on the return trip!

Oh and additionally I have recalled I have a few spare 5700 105 bits floating about (Shifters and brakes), so could probably fit up one bike by just buying some individual parts, or even spec mine with 105 and the other half's with Sora :shock:

Plus some of the Brittany ferry ladies are very pleasant indeed.

Those Eastway bikes do look very good value I do agree - but I still feel that building a couple will be, A - Fun, and B - clear up a lot of parts I currently have to store, as, C - I can't be @rsed to try and sell it, and also it isn't worth much anyway, so negligible gains, other than space.

Chris De Bass - I would be after a 54ish frame, with a theoretical top tube of 54-54.5cm - I can make adjustments with stem length and seat position easily enough.

Don't know much about the Giant offerings, having never looked at them, does it have forks etc with it?

chris_bass

Ah, mine are a bit too big in that case, any chance you'll grow into them?!

daniel_b

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19713621#p19713621]Chris Bass[/url] wrote:

Ah, mine are a bit too big in that case, any chance you'll grow into them?!

Ah shame, and alas no!

I was rather smitten with a Kinesis Evo 2 CX frame (Carbon rear stays) with carbon forks, until I realised it had no bottle cage mounts :-(

Wondering if a CX style bike might be useful, as there are a fair few semi off road, dirt tracks out there too.
Might narrow down my field somewhat though.

6wheels

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19713296#p19713296]Daniel B[/url] wrote:

I'm thinking I should probably disregard the ultra cheap full carbon frames from China?

Why? I've just received my frame from here...

http://www.flyxii.com/en/products/flx-fr-602-matt.html

Total cost including Customs charges were £350 (which included seatpost , seatpost collar, headset and spare hanger), it took 12 days from ordering until delivery .

Initial impressions are very good, quality seems as good as on my Canyon and can't wait to get it built up.

daniel_b

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19713842#p19713842]6wheels[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19713296#p19713296]Daniel B[/url] wrote:

I'm thinking I should probably disregard the ultra cheap full carbon frames from China?

Why? I've just received my frame from here...

http://www.flyxii.com/en/products/flx-fr-602-matt.html

Total cost including Customs charges were £350 (which included seatpost , seatpost collar, headset and spare hanger), it took 12 days from ordering until delivery .

Initial impressions are very good, quality seems as good as on my Canyon and can't wait to get it built up.

When I mean ultra cheap, I mean ultra - bearing in mind my budget of around £150-£250 for a frame and forks, I did see an all carbon frame and forks on the bay of e for something like £240 delivered.

I'm surprised to hear you were hit with customs charges, I thought everything from that neck of the woods snuck through, not anymore I guess.

Man Of Lard

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19713846#p19713846]Daniel B[/url] wrote:

I'm surprised to hear you were hit with customs charges, I thought everything from that neck of the woods snuck through, not anymore I guess.

Small (dimensioned) stuff generally does. A bike frame probably falls into the category where even the blindest eye detects it.

keef66

Planet X and Ribble have fairly frequent sales of frames / framesets. Often bargains to be had there. Or Paul Milnes' Ebay shop?

dinyull

Check Dolan out too. Have a look in their Deals section as they usually have some imperfect frames for around £90 - although you'd need to buy some forks separate.

When I say imperfect, the paint usually has a blemish or 2 and the areas affected are covered in the photos.

daniel_b

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19713959#p19713959]Man Of Lard[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19713846#p19713846]Daniel B[/url] wrote:

I'm surprised to hear you were hit with customs charges, I thought everything from that neck of the woods snuck through, not anymore I guess.

Small (dimensioned) stuff generally does. A bike frame probably falls into the category where even the blindest eye detects it.

Fair enough, but I recall a few years back when people were ordering wheels, and frames a-plenty, and the boxes were being marked up in such a way to not attract any charges, I think it was sample or some such with a low value.
Not going to enter into a moral debate about it, merely stating a fact.
So either the sellers have stopped doing this, or Customs are wise to it now.

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19713976#p19713976]keef66[/url] wrote:

Planet X and Ribble have fairly frequent sales of frames / framesets. Often bargains to be had there. Or Paul Milnes' Ebay shop?

I have had a look at both of those, not much on PX in sizes I would need at the mo, and the only thing on Ribble, aside from the winter trainer bike, is an Alu, I forget the frame, but with the carbon forks and 10% discount + postage it weighed in at just over £175 each - so fairly good.

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19713998#p19713998]Dinyull[/url] wrote:

Check Dolan out too. Have a look in their Deals section as they usually have some imperfect frames for around £90 - although you'd need to buy some forks separate.

When I say imperfect, the paint usually has a blemish or 2 and the areas affected are covered in the photos.

Now Dolan I do like, by reputation at least, I will have a look and also at Paul Milnes ebay store, though think I might have seen a nice Tifosi frame on there already....?

Cycloslalomeur2

Evans seem to have their own-brand Pinnacle fast hybrid frames on permanent sale. I recently had a rummage through the parts bin myself and picked up a Neon frame for 70 quid and paired it with one of these: https://www.salden.nl/nl/onderdelen/voorvorken/voorvorken-cyclocross/massini-voorvork-1-1-8-cyclocross-161460.html and built myself a cheap relaxed geometry adventure bike/gravel grinder or whatever the fashionable term is this week.

I´ve been very happy with the frame; so much so that for this year´s three-stage Ardéchoise I left my fleet of Addicts at home and took the Neon instead. It´s used mostly on the road, running 35mm Kojaks, but with a fair mileage of off-road action as well. It has plenty of tyre clearance and is well finished. The women´s size small weighs 1.55kg. For the price, I´m fairly happy with the stiffness of the frame but am not a particularly powerful rider.

Obviously you´d need V-brakes, long-pull drop bar levers and bar-end or thumb shifters. I fitted old nine-speed Dura-Ace shifters in micro-index mode (eight cogs in the back) because I had a pair in the parts bin and they are fabutastic. Planet X sell the 11-speed flavour for 40 quid but I don´t know if they have micro-index mode.

Evans also sell Pinnacle Dolomite roadbike frames, but they´re more than £100 and seem to have a tapered headtube.

Regards,

A recovering Addict

daniel_b

Cheers for that CS, I will give those Pinnacles a look.

I'm starting to sway back towards a fully built bike I must be honest.

I was browsing the Decathlon ES site - and the Mach 720 jumped out at me.
http://www.decathlon.co.uk/mach-720-carbon-road-bike-id_8311471.html


£1000, but the ES Site, has it for 1100 euros - a smidge over £800!

Full carbon and mostly 105 11 spd - overkill I heartily agree, but stupendous vfm.

Downsides are that it is a proper race frame, and has a LONG top tube for the size of frame, ie I would need a 53, but that still has a 55cm TT.
Oh and it's also yet another Matte dark coloured frame.

So in summary, it appears to be a monster bargain, but I don't think it would be right for me, either there or at home - my bargain loving side is taking a fair bit of convincing however :?

Thought just a chance this might be a bargain for someone living in, or with family in Spain.

dhope

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19714714#p19714714]Daniel B[/url] wrote:

but I don't think it would be right for me, either there or at home

Then it's not much of a bargain. Move on.

veronese68

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19714780#p19714780]dhope[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19714714#p19714714]Daniel B[/url] wrote:

but I don't think it would be right for me, either there or at home

Then it's not much of a bargain. Move on.

You do know that's Dan B don't you?

dhope

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19714799#p19714799]Veronese68[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19714780#p19714780]dhope[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19714714#p19714714]Daniel B[/url] wrote:

but I don't think it would be right for me, either there or at home

Then it's not much of a bargain. Move on.

You do know that's Dan B don't you?

I posted something yellow in the bargains thread to distract him.

daniel_b

lol you guys

It's a good job I don't take offence

I am now thinking the 540 might be the best compromise, as it can take wider tyres, but still has a pretty decent spec, but not for £550 - hopefully something more like sub £500 would be nice.

I'll keep checking the ES website, and hope to stumble onto a deal, hoping there might be some discounts around Christmas/January, and that the £ stays strong.

In the meantime I might pop into a local Decathlon to check on sizing for the both of us.

dhope

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19714834#p19714834]Daniel B[/url] wrote:

lol you guys

It's a good job I don't take offence

I am now thinking the 540 might be the best compromise, as it can take wider tyres, but still has a pretty decent spec, but not for £550 - hopefully something more like sub £500 would be nice.

I'll keep checking the ES website, and hope to stumble onto a deal, hoping there might be some discounts around Christmas/January, and that the £ stays strong.

In the meantime I might pop into a local Decathlon to check on sizing for the both of us.

I'm quite happy to help you spend more. Just you said that one wasn't right.

Canyon Endurace? Should tick the boxes and starts at €849 / £630
https://www.canyon.com/en-es/road/endurace/endurace-al-5-0.html

Or €1000 with 105.

It's the relaxed geometry road bike, and they do a female 'WMN' shaped version too

daniel_b

Very noble of you Sir!

The Canyon looks pretty good, however it still only has Tiagra, and is an Alu frame.

The reason the BTwin 720 appealed to me, even though it is above my theoretical budget, was because firstly it had a full carbon frame, secondly it was mostly 105 11 spd, and thirdly it was absurdly good value!

I'm more than happy to go Alu frame and carbon forks, and that will likely be the the route I take, unless some mega deal pops up, but if I am going that route I think the most I will be spending per bike is £500, a touch more if it's something REALLY special.

The 540 has a smattering of 105 I think, and currently weighs in at £550, but that's at full price - irritatingly, but understandably, the flat bar version is 100 euros less.

veronese68

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19714845#p19714845]dhope[/url] wrote:

I'm quite happy to help you spend more.

Exactly, I use this place to spend vicariously if I don't have the cash myself. Or to find out where to spend it when I do.

keef66

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19715221#p19715221]Veronese68[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19714845#p19714845]dhope[/url] wrote:

I'm quite happy to help you spend more.

Exactly, I use this place to spend vicariously if I don't have the cash myself. Or to find out where to spend it when I do.

I have this forum to blame for the hasty purchase of a CR1-SL frameset. Never have I whipped out my credit card faster. Actually blame is the wrong word, I should say thank. It's a belter.

And then I got a 9 speed Tiagra groupset in the classifieds on here for the alu bike now relegated to wet weather duties!

dhope

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19715218#p19715218]Daniel B[/url] wrote:

Very noble of you Sir!

The Canyon looks pretty good, however it still only has Tiagra, and is an Alu frame.

The reason the BTwin 720 appealed to me, even though it is above my theoretical budget, was because firstly it had a full carbon frame, secondly it was mostly 105 11 spd, and thirdly it was absurdly good value!

I'm more than happy to go Alu frame and carbon forks, and that will likely be the the route I take, unless some mega deal pops up, but if I am going that route I think the most I will be spending per bike is £500, a touch more if it's something REALLY special.

The 540 has a smattering of 105 I think, and currently weighs in at £550, but that's at full price - irritatingly, but understandably, the flat bar version is 100 euros less.

The next one up has 105 @ 1000 EUR. Or Ultegra @ €1300. Think I'd go 105.

The BTwin looks lovely value. But... didn't you say it was the wrong shape for you? Was only thinking the Endurace as it's not as racy as their Ultimate AL/Ultimate CF/Aeroad.
It looks like it's basically their Roadlite range renamed.
http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/category/bikes/road/product/review-canyon-roadlite-al-6-0-14-48425/

imatfaal

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19715218#p19715218]Daniel B[/url] wrote:

Very noble of you Sir!

The Canyon looks pretty good, however it still only has Tiagra, and is an Alu frame.

The reason the BTwin 720 appealed to me, even though it is above my theoretical budget, was because firstly it had a full carbon frame, secondly it was mostly 105 11 spd, and thirdly it was absurdly good value!

I'm more than happy to go Alu frame and carbon forks, and that will likely be the the route I take, unless some mega deal pops up, but if I am going that route I think the most I will be spending per bike is £500, a touch more if it's something REALLY special.

The 540 has a smattering of 105 I think, and currently weighs in at £550, but that's at full price - irritatingly, but understandably, the flat bar version is 100 euros less.

I must admit I would be thinking Alu at best and possibly even steel. I know anything left at shared family dwellings will (no matter how secured and how much not for communal use) will end up being used by brothers, sisters, kids, friends of same etc. For 500 quid I wouldn't mind the extra wear and tear - and the extra fettling to re-index etc; but I wouldn't want to ride a carbon frame on steep and unforgiving roads that had been potentially roughly treated by others.

If you are determined on the slightly posher route - merlin have some small sizes of crosslight pro 6 at 400 quid. One problem with this frame is you will end up loving it more than your much more expensive bikes - it is a real dooozy

daniel_b

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19715271#p19715271]dhope[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19715218#p19715218]Daniel B[/url] wrote:

Very noble of you Sir!

The Canyon looks pretty good, however it still only has Tiagra, and is an Alu frame.

The reason the BTwin 720 appealed to me, even though it is above my theoretical budget, was because firstly it had a full carbon frame, secondly it was mostly 105 11 spd, and thirdly it was absurdly good value!

I'm more than happy to go Alu frame and carbon forks, and that will likely be the the route I take, unless some mega deal pops up, but if I am going that route I think the most I will be spending per bike is £500, a touch more if it's something REALLY special.

The 540 has a smattering of 105 I think, and currently weighs in at £550, but that's at full price - irritatingly, but understandably, the flat bar version is 100 euros less.

The next one up has 105 @ 1000 EUR. Or Ultegra @ €1300. Think I'd go 105.

The BTwin looks lovely value. But... didn't you say it was the wrong shape for you? Was only thinking the Endurace as it's not as racy as their Ultimate AL/Ultimate CF/Aeroad.
It looks like it's basically their Roadlite range renamed.
http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/category/bikes/road/product/review-canyon-roadlite-al-6-0-14-48425/

Ah no, the 720 IS the wrong shape, but the 540 has different geometry.

From reading elsewhere, it appears they trickle the frame designs one year at ttime, so the 720 has what was the top end race frame from last year.
As mentioned in the article, this may or may not be a good thing!

These are the two comparitive geometries:
Scott:
54cm frame
545mm top tube
73 degree headtube angle
Head tube length 156mm
74 degree seat tube angle

I run this with a 20mm setback seatpost, the saddle slightly (maybe 1cm) further back than central, and a 90mm upturned stem with one spacer above.

BTwin:
55cm frame
548mm top tube
73 degree headtube angle
Head tube length 147.5mm
73.5 degree seat tube angle

So the only difference that could have a biggish impact is the more acute seat tube angle, but will 0.5 degrees make a difference over what 60 (including the seatpost) cm?
And the head tube length, but I wonder if I can nullify that just by not running any spacers ontop of the stem, as I know you are meant to do with a carbon fork.
I assume it will put me further away from the front of the bike, and therefore I might either just need a shorter stem, or to adjust the saddle position.

Versus the 720 Geometry:
53cm frame
550mm top tube
72 degree headtube angle
Head tube length 119.0mm
74 degree seat tube angle

55cm frame
555mm top tube
73 degree headtube angle
Head tube length 137.0mm
74 degree seat tube angle