Spontaneous nipple breakage..? rebuilt wheel now 3/11
fudgey
Posts: 854
afternoon all, last month i noticed a nipple on my rear wheel has sheared off, so got another, replaced and all has been good. only used the bike for less than 100 miles since.
then last night i went out to fit a new chain and noticed another nipple had sheared, 4 spokes away from the first one.
i did about 25 miles with the first one gone, so wondering if it has stressed all the others?
both are drive-side of the rear wheel if that makes any odds.
the bike is stored hanging up by the frame, no weight on the wheels and both have gone while the bike was hanging up not in use!
on both occasions the wheel went out of true so much that it rubs on the rear brake, even when open.
wheels are Artemis rims with Colnago hubs, the bike has covered 3500 miles since new last May, im about 12st 5lb at the mo.
is it worth stripping the wheel down and replacing all the nipples and having the wheel rebuilt? no spokes have snapped, just the shoulders off 2 nipples.
i cant afford a new set of wheels at the mo so looking to fix...
cheers in advance.
then last night i went out to fit a new chain and noticed another nipple had sheared, 4 spokes away from the first one.
i did about 25 miles with the first one gone, so wondering if it has stressed all the others?
both are drive-side of the rear wheel if that makes any odds.
the bike is stored hanging up by the frame, no weight on the wheels and both have gone while the bike was hanging up not in use!
on both occasions the wheel went out of true so much that it rubs on the rear brake, even when open.
wheels are Artemis rims with Colnago hubs, the bike has covered 3500 miles since new last May, im about 12st 5lb at the mo.
is it worth stripping the wheel down and replacing all the nipples and having the wheel rebuilt? no spokes have snapped, just the shoulders off 2 nipples.
i cant afford a new set of wheels at the mo so looking to fix...
cheers in advance.
My winter bike is exactly the same as my summer bike,,, but dirty...
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I'm assuming they are alloy nipples; never seen a brass one disintegrate. Could be that they have suffered galvanic corrosion due to wet / salt, and they are all starting to fail.
Drive side spokes are under the most tension, so it makes sense that they'd give up first...
Could well be worth having it rebuilt, maybe with brass nipples?0 -
Did the nipple break at the end of the spoke thread or there about, or is it just the actual shoulder that sheared away?
Have a look to see if the spoke thread come up to the top of the nipple or is it more than a couple of mm below? (when looking at the head of the nipple through the rim). If is is too far below and the complete nipple head sheared off then the spokes are too short.
If that's not the problem, and it is literally just the shoulder shearing off leaving the spoke threaded part intact - then you should be ok just getting the nipples changed.
The bike shop who supplied the bike/wheels should be footing the bill, as its a manufacture problem of some description. Your wheels should not have a problem like this after such a short period of time.0 -
This wasn't the thread I was expecting
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In my experience if one spoke/nipple goes you can just replace it and see what happens - but if others start to go it's time for a rebuild.
A proper rebuild and they'll last you a good while longer.I'm left handed, if that matters.0 -
This wasn't the thread I was expecting
I once had a nasty case of this whilst running a half marathon on a hot day.0 -
In my experience if one spoke/nipple goes you can just replace it and see what happens - but if others start to go it's time for a rebuild.
A proper rebuild and they'll last you a good while longer.
yepp, this ^
I would buy some decent brass nipples and rebuild. FWIW, getting this done at an LBS won't cost too much, something like £30-40 per wheel.0 -
Take it back to where you bought it.
18 months is not nearly enough time for a wheel to last - and 3500 miles is fairly light usage. There was clearly a problem at the time of sale with the nipples they used for the build or how they utilised them - if there wasn't a pre-existing fault in manufacture/product then you wouldn't have had a single nipple break let alone more than one.
The vendor's responsibility for providing goods free from fault and capable of performing the task expected of them does not expire for 5-6 years or until reasonably expected to expire - the reasonable expectation of life of a bike wheel is much more than 18mo normal usage. Do not let them fob you off with talk of "the manufacturer's warranty has expired" - you have a consumer sales contract that is protected by law with the bike shop you bought from.
If they insist (as they can) that you show that fault was pre-existing you may have a few problems and either cave or dig in for a long fight - but if they do what they should and agree with you then they have three options that they can choose from (as long as none of the over-inconvenience you) - repair, replacement, or refund (might be only partial).0 -
good news, been on to supplier and a new set of wheels should be on their way!
in the mean time i will replace all nipples and get them built. ill do the donkey work of changing them all over and the LBS can tension them etc.
so win win as ill have a spare set of winter wheels
My winter bike is exactly the same as my summer bike,,, but dirty...0 -
Did the nipple break at the end of the spoke thread or there about, or is it just the actual shoulder that sheared away?
Have a look to see if the spoke thread come up to the top of the nipple or is it more than a couple of mm below? (when looking at the head of the nipple through the rim). If is is too far below and the complete nipple head sheared off then the spokes are too short.
If that's not the problem, and it is literally just the shoulder shearing off leaving the spoke threaded part intact - then you should be ok just getting the nipples changed.
The bike shop who supplied the bike/wheels should be footing the bill, as its a manufacture problem of some description. Your wheels should not have a problem like this after such a short period of time.
the tip of the spoke is just poking through the end, so pretty sure its just the shoulder. if i get time later ill strip the wheel down and get the other bit out. but i think it was just the bulbous part that was left in the rim last time.
they are alloy nipples too.
the silver one was the last replacement
My winter bike is exactly the same as my summer bike,,, but dirty...0 -
This wasn't the thread I was expecting
Surely that should be a happy face? I can't imagine why you would be sad about not seeing actual broken nipples...0 -
the tip of the spoke is just poking through the end, so pretty sure its just the shoulder. if i get time later ill strip the wheel down and get the other bit out. but i think it was just the bulbous part that was left in the rim last time.
they are alloy nipples too.
As a previous poster said, the spokes are too short.BASI Nordic Ski Instructor
Instagramme0 -
Looking at the pics - the spoke is too short and they have used a longer nipple than is necessary for the build to compensate.
The complete nipple head has sheared off because not enough thread on the spoke is entering the nipple head behind the rim wall - Therefore the tension load is not distributed fully to the nipple shoulder behind the wall of the rim. All the tension load has been taken by the nipple, which are actually not designed for this.
Changing all the nipples for brass will not be the answer - longer spokes are needed.0 -
Oh, i think i get what you mean. basically that thew threaded part of the spoke should pass ALL the way through the nipples?
if i get time tonight ill strip the wheel down and have a look at the rest.My winter bike is exactly the same as my summer bike,,, but dirty...0 -
Got the wheel stripped at the weekend and found the nipple end looks to have had spoke contact a couple of threads in but thats it. deffo no deeper than the chamferd part.
and a pic of the spoke in the rim
so i will look at new longer spokes and brass nipples and have it rebuilt for a winter wheel.
in the mean time the replacement set of wheels turned up, so all good!My winter bike is exactly the same as my summer bike,,, but dirty...0 -
Finally had 5mins to have a look. Started off by removing the rim tape and checking all the nipples. All spokes seem to have the spoke a couple of mm below the top of the nipple, i can screw a spoke in 2.5-3 turns to each pretty much.
Then next by putting masking tape by the nipples on the opposite side of the rim to the broken ones, i then removed the two nipples (one drive, one non drive side) and measured the length of threaded spoke to see how far the nipples were screwed on.
Drive side was 15mm, non was 12mm
I then screwed a nipple on as far as it would go, which was about 15.5mm and the nipple just starts to poke into the screwdriver slot, about 1 thread if that.
Finally i measured the spokes, drive side 272mm, non 274.5mm - both have 10mm of thread at the nipple end.
And the nipple is 16mm
From this i gather i need 2mm longer spokes so they will screw through the shoulder of the nipple?
Will the same length nipples still work? Or will the threaded part of the new spoke be the same length so the spoke will bottom out on the thread? Therefore needing 14mm nipples?
Thanks for any advice!My winter bike is exactly the same as my summer bike,,, but dirty...0 -
Hi mate. I'm no expert, but I'm approaching building my first pair of wheels. There's an online calculator - tell it your rim and hub specifics and it spits out spoke length
I can't recall where it's found, but I guess a quick Google would reveal it. Have a go and see what it recommends.
Best of luck!Ben
Bikes: Donhou DSS4 Custom | Condor Italia RC | Gios Megalite | Dolan Preffisio | Giant Bowery '76
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ben_h_ppcc/
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Did you buy in may '14 of '15?
If '15 I'd be getting the place you bought the bike/wheels from to do a full wheel rebuild and charge it to Colnago as a warranty claim. And if your lucky and it's a good LBS they'd do the same if bought in '14 too.
*ah, just seen they've replaced them for you. Must read full thread in future!0 -
If I was doing the repair for myself- I would transfer the non-drive side spokes over to the drive side, and purchase some 277 long spokes for the non-drive side. I would change the nipples for the shortest usable length for the rim- either 12mm or 14mm long - whichever left the full square section visible above the rim surface. The slot in your nipples is excessively wide, compromising the strength of the nipple and the security of the thread.
Definitely would use brass nipples for the rebuild as well.
If possible, I would also try to confirm the spoke lengths using an online calculator beforehand.
Also check the front wheel as it might have the same problem? - remove the rim tape and have a look.0 -
Yes, already received new wheels so all good on that front.If I was doing the repair for myself- I would transfer the non-drive side spokes over to the drive side, and purchase some 277 long spokes for the non-drive side. I would change the nipples for the shortest usable length for the rim- either 12mm or 14mm long - whichever left the full square section visible above the rim surface. The slot in your nipples is excessively wide, compromising the strength of the nipple and the security of the thread.
Definitely would use brass nipples for the rebuild as well.
If possible, I would also try to confirm the spoke lengths using an online calculator beforehand.
Also check the front wheel as it might have the same problem? - remove the rim tape and have a look.
ah great idea on using the non drive side on the drive side! the rims are deep enough that it doesnt matter if they poke out the top of the nipples. i will try this tonight.
i will get brass nipples, and have a look at a calculator to double check etc.
i dont think i would get away with 12mm nipples, will measure later, and also check the front wheel!
thanks for replying My winter bike is exactly the same as my summer bike,,, but dirty...0 -
I swapped a non drive side spoke to the drive side and the nipple bottomed out on the thread. Not sure it was tight enough so deffo need shorter nipples.
I measured the bit of the nipple between the rim and the spoke key flats at 5mm, so with that in mind i could go 4mm shorter to 12mm nipples.
If i have got this totally wrong, please tell me before i order the wrong stuff hahaha
I also took the rim tape off the front and they are the same - too short.
But as none have broke yet on the front i wont fix it. Will wait and see with that one.My winter bike is exactly the same as my summer bike,,, but dirty...0 -
Was going to order some spokes today but thought id double check with a length calculator..
Well its come out as 275-274mm for non drive side, the ones on there are 274.5....
I think ill order some 276mm ones for non drive side, and swap the non drive side to the drive side and replace all nipples with brass 14mm
And go from there..
Ill report back when it all goes horribly wrong... HaMy winter bike is exactly the same as my summer bike,,, but dirty...0 -
So i ordered some 276mm spokes and 14mm brass nipples and rebuilt the wheel.
when truing it last night i managed to bet it pretty good with regards to side to side movement, but noticed i have about 2-3mm of up/down movement.
the wheel seems to have a high spot, but i imagine its not just a case of trying to tighten the spokes more on the high part, ill need to slacken the opposite side first?
this is the first wheel i have built, so a little unsure.My winter bike is exactly the same as my summer bike,,, but dirty...0 -
bit more fettling last night and it now has less than 1mm radial movement and no more than 0.5mm lateral.
just need some rim tape, refit cassette and tube and tyre and give it a go.My winter bike is exactly the same as my summer bike,,, but dirty...0 -
I just wondered if you had checked that you have similar tensions on all your spokes and that you haven't twisted the spoke while tightening the nipple. If you have twisted any then you could be greeted by pinging spokes on your first outing.0
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I will check for twisted spokes. all felt the sameish tension when squeezing with my fingers, but i doubt that is very accurate!My winter bike is exactly the same as my summer bike,,, but dirty...0
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You probably need to get some idea of the actual tension you have in the spokes.
There are apps for iPhone and android that use the frequency when you pluck the spoke to calculate the actual tension.
May not be accurate but it would tell you if they all have a similar tension.
You could compare the values with another wheel.
You can avoid twisting the spoke by winding it back after adjustment e.g. tighten 1/2 a turn loosen a 1/4 turn.0
