Race Radios
Comments
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Presumably this comes into force as a part of this:-
http://www.uci.ch/pressreleases/the-uci-approves-key-principles-for-the-reform-men-professional-road-cycling/"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Shame, the egos of team management above the good of the sport.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0
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Excellent. Everyone can declare its the end of days and work themselves into a right old tizz over this one0
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It's not the end of days but if the uci have backtracked on phasing them out it's a shame for those who prefer to see the riders making more of the decisions rather than the DS.
I suppose it gives those more interested in team politics than racing something to tweet about though.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
It's not the end of days but if the uci have backtracked on phasing them out it's a shame for those who prefer to see the riders making more of the decisions rather than the DS.
I suppose it gives those more interested in team politics than racing something to tweet about though.
I agree with this. They definitely play a big part in taking the decision making out of the riders hands. Even the Cancellara 2008 MSR story on this Forum talks about Riis screaming down the radio at Fabu and telling him not to look back. It does influence how a rider will ride. Shame0 -
At least everyone at Quick step can point the finger at Peeters when there's a tactical balls up.0
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So that means that there'll be no crashes and everyone will be nice and safe. 200 riders all being told to move up always works well.0
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It's not the end of days but if the uci have backtracked on phasing them out it's a shame for those who prefer to see the riders making more of the decisions rather than the DS.
I suppose it gives those more interested in team politics than racing something to tweet about though.
I agree with this. They definitely play a big part in taking the decision making out of the riders hands. Even the Cancellara 2008 MSR story on this Forum talks about Riis screaming down the radio at Fabu and telling him not to look back. It does influence how a rider will ride. Shame
But he did also say that it was just irritating background noise at that point."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
It's not the end of days but if the uci have backtracked on phasing them out it's a shame for those who prefer to see the riders making more of the decisions rather than the DS.
I suppose it gives those more interested in team politics than racing something to tweet about though.
I agree with this. They definitely play a big part in taking the decision making out of the riders hands. Even the Cancellara 2008 MSR story on this Forum talks about Riis screaming down the radio at Fabu and telling him not to look back. It does influence how a rider will ride. Shame
Middle management wins the day.
The biggest shame of all is that now we'll never be treated to someone crossing the line thinking they've won when they haven't...0 -
It's not the end of days but if the uci have backtracked on phasing them out it's a shame for those who prefer to see the riders making more of the decisions rather than the DS.
I suppose it gives those more interested in team politics than racing something to tweet about though.
Mikel Landa seemed quite happy to make his own decisions regardless of what team radio was telling him.
I'm waiting for Velon to announce that they've signed an agreement to share radio broadcasts (as per F1) alongside the gopro footage...0 -
dish_dash wrote:[url=<span class= wrote:DeVlaeminck[/url]"]It's not the end of days but if the uci have backtracked on phasing them out it's a shame for those who prefer to see the riders making more of the decisions rather than the DS.
I suppose it gives those more interested in team politics than racing something to tweet about though.
Mikel Landa seemed quite happy to make his own decisions regardless of what team radio was telling him.
I'm waiting for Velon to announce that they've signed an agreement to share radio broadcasts (as per F1) alongside the gopro footage...
And Mikel Landa is leaving that team.
It would be interesting to see how many teams who are campaigning for race radios would be happy to have them broadcast.
How will racing be improved, for example, if we see instances of experienced but average ex-pro DSs thinking they know better and instructing brilliant neo pros against their instinct? Is this just another dynamic within a team that's always been there - but tended to happen either side of race rather than during it?0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19709798#p19709798]disgruntledgoat[/url] wrote:It's not the end of days but if the uci have backtracked on phasing them out it's a shame for those who prefer to see the riders making more of the decisions rather than the DS.
I suppose it gives those more interested in team politics than racing something to tweet about though.
I agree with this. They definitely play a big part in taking the decision making out of the riders hands. Even the Cancellara 2008 MSR story on this Forum talks about Riis screaming down the radio at Fabu and telling him not to look back. It does influence how a rider will ride. Shame
But he did also say that it was just irritating background noise at that point.
I know but there are examples in races where riderrX is seen to be struggling by rider/car Y and the shout goes over the radio for a team leader Y who may be elsewhere on the road to make his move. Making the riders "all seeing" doesn't do it for me .0 -
the sensible answer is to have the commisaires on broadcast, the riders on broadcast and receive and the team cars on receive only, that way the riders get the official detail on gaps, chutes and they can also signal for bottles, mechanicals - but the team managers can't give rolling splits and tactical decisioning"I get paid to make other people suffer on my wheel, how good is that"
--Jens Voight0 -
The biggest shame of all is that now we'll never be treated to someone crossing the line thinking they've won when they haven't...
That's happened at least 3 times in the Giro in recent editions, also the incident with GVA in San Sebastien made for an interesting celebration with Yates!0 -
The biggest shame of all is that now we'll never be treated to someone crossing the line thinking they've won when they haven't...
That's happened at least 3 times in the Giro in recent editions, also the incident with GVA in San Sebastien made for an interesting celebration with Yates!
The Giro riders were told by the team bosses to celebrate in order to keep up the spectacle and convince the UCI that race radios should be allowed.0 -
the sensible answer is to have the commisaires on broadcast, the riders on broadcast and receive and the team cars on receive only, that way the riders get the official detail on gaps, chutes and they can also signal for bottles, mechanicals - but the team managers can't give rolling splits and tactical decisioning
Good call0 -
Lads, it would be more interesting if there were no race radios and every man had to make up his own mind... what do radios actually contribute? It's becoming too much like F1, too much technology to take decisions away from the driver/rider.'Performance analysis and Froome not being clean was a media driven story. I haven’t heard one guy in the peloton say a negative thing about Froome, and I haven’t heard a single person in the peloton suggest Froome isn’t clean.' TSP0
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Riders do make up their own mind. Radios just allow them to make informed decisions based on information received. And it allows riders to talk to their teammates and act as a team.Lads, it would be more interesting if there were no race radios and every man had to make up his own mind... what do radios actually contribute? It's becoming too much like F1, too much technology to take decisions away from the driver/rider.
People would want radios banned actually want sensible tactics banned.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Lads
I stopped reading here."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
Riders do make up their own mind. Radios just allow them to make informed decisions based on information received. And it allows riders to talk to their teammates and act as a team.Lads, it would be more interesting if there were no race radios and every man had to make up his own mind... what do radios actually contribute? It's becoming too much like F1, too much technology to take decisions away from the driver/rider.
People would want radios banned actually want sensible tactics banned.
No they don't0 -
Riders do make up their own mind.
People would want radios banned actually want sensible tactics banned.
These to me are fairly mutually exclusive statements.
Either they don't affect tactics and don't change riders' minds to opt for "sensible" tactics or they do.
And why are "sensible" tactics sought after by fans anyway? Whatever that means.
Fairly sure "sensible" tactics were around before radios.0 -
Sensible tactics the product of race radios?
One one side, you have the folks who see most forms of technical innovation as a positive thing, enhancing racing. In this case, improved information dissemination through improved communication that enable teams to act and respond appropriately to all situations on the road.
On the other, those who wish to retain as much of the "human element" as possible. Judgement calls based upon experience, racing nous and yes, the employment of a risk element. Their hope being that this might trigger an inappropriate response to some situations on the road."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
What would happen in a situation like in the 2012 tour, when the tacs were on the road. Wiggins stopped racing when he found out Evans had another wheel change to allow him to get back into the group. that must have been passed on with radios.0
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No. I think you and Rick have misinterpreted what I was trying to say.[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19710176#p19710176]Blazing Saddles[/url] wrote:Sensible tactics the product of race radios?
Those that want radios banned seem to think that the result will be that riders will start riding in a different manner. But they won't because they are not idiots. They ride as they do because they are sensible tactics - with or without radios. So what I was saying that what people really want is for riders to start riding in a more entertaining but also more clueless manner (hence 'banning sensible tactics'). It wasn't well expressed.
Also, people do know that live TV pictures (such as the DSs see) aren't actually live, don't they - they have a delay of at least ten seconds, meaning that DS is actually a poor person to make tactical decisions.Twitter: @RichN950 -
the sensible answer is to have the commisaires on broadcast, the riders on broadcast and receive and the team cars on receive only, that way the riders get the official detail on gaps, chutes and they can also signal for bottles, mechanicals - but the team managers can't give rolling splits and tactical decisioning
I like this suggestion a lot, the teams should back it as it addresses what they claim is the reason for race radios I.e. safety. I guess the only question is would riders be able to talk to team mates?0 -
No. I think you and Rick have misinterpreted what I was trying to say.[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19710176#p19710176]Blazing Saddles[/url] wrote:Sensible tactics the product of race radios?
Those that want radios banned seem to think that the result will be that riders will start riding in a different manner. But they won't because they are not idiots. They ride as they do because they are sensible tactics - with or without radios. So what I was saying that what people really want is for riders to start riding in a more entertaining but also more clueless manner (hence 'banning sensible tactics'). It wasn't well expressed.
Also, people do know that live TV pictures (such as the DSs see) aren't actually live, don't they - they have a delay of at least ten seconds, meaning that DS is actually a poor person to make tactical decisions.
Ever so slightly rubbish and condescending. Are you saying that all racing below that which allows race radios is clueless and boring? the point is that the lesser the amount of extraneous information coming in the more self reliance in decision making riders would require and teams would organise themselves accordingly.0 -
No, once again someone hasn't properly read what I said.Ever so slightly rubbish and condescending. Are you saying that all racing below that which allows race radios is clueless and boring? the point is that the lesser the amount of extraneous information coming in the more self reliance in decision making riders would require and teams would organise themselves accordingly.
My point is that radios make little difference to how riders think or the tactics they use. Those that want them banned to make the racing more entertaining seem to think that somehow pro riders will abandon all the sensible tactics that they been using previously and race in a completely different way. They won't. They'll race exactly the same. Because they do make most of the decisions for themselves. The radios just allow them to get information to make more informed ones. Less informed decisions don't make for better racing.
'lesser amount of extraneous information' means less informed, and less informed is, by definition, more clueless. In your outrage you are actually agreeing with me. What you want is for riders to have less information so the quality of their decision making drops.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Double post'Performance analysis and Froome not being clean was a media driven story. I haven’t heard one guy in the peloton say a negative thing about Froome, and I haven’t heard a single person in the peloton suggest Froome isn’t clean.' TSP0
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What's you problem? Are you one of these internet experts that dismisses everyone else's opinion?[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19710008#p19710008]disgruntledgoat[/url] wrote:Lads
I stopped reading here.'Performance analysis and Froome not being clean was a media driven story. I haven’t heard one guy in the peloton say a negative thing about Froome, and I haven’t heard a single person in the peloton suggest Froome isn’t clean.' TSP0 -
I would prefer to see sanitised stages banned where the riders simply do as they're told, ie they become riders not racers. The team leader should do just that, make the decisions and instruct his team accordingly.
Riders do make up their own mind. Radios just allow them to make informed decisions based on information received. And it allows riders to talk to their teammates and act as a team.Lads, it would be more interesting if there were no race radios and every man had to make up his own mind... what do radios actually contribute? It's becoming too much like F1, too much technology to take decisions away from the driver/rider.
People would want radios banned actually want sensible tactics banned.'Performance analysis and Froome not being clean was a media driven story. I haven’t heard one guy in the peloton say a negative thing about Froome, and I haven’t heard a single person in the peloton suggest Froome isn’t clean.' TSP0
