Challenge Tubs for CX
wilky27
Posts: 200
Just made the move from tubeless to tubulars. The rim width on my new tubs is 23mm. When coming to purchase some Challenge tyres all the rim widths are 15mm - 19mm. Does this mean they're aren't compatible for my rims?
Thanks.
Thanks.
0
Comments
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Just made the move from tubeless to tubulars. The rim width on my new tubs is 23mm. When coming to purchase some Challenge tyres all the rim widths are 15mm - 19mm. Does this mean they're aren't compatible for my rims?
Thanks.
Don't worry, they will sit very well on 23mm rims. You will find the base tape a little bit wider still, but the main reason they will sit well is that the wider rims have a shallower curvature providing better conformity between tyre and rim, which in turn gives a better bond.0 -
Great, thanks vamP!Just made the move from tubeless to tubulars. The rim width on my new tubs is 23mm. When coming to purchase some Challenge tyres all the rim widths are 15mm - 19mm. Does this mean they're aren't compatible for my rims?
Thanks.
Don't worry, they will sit very well on 23mm rims. You will find the base tape a little bit wider still, but the main reason they will sit well is that the wider rims have a shallower curvature providing better conformity between tyre and rim, which in turn gives a better bond.
Now, Grifo or Fango? hmm.0 -
What are you going to be using them for? Grifo would be the traditional choice for intermediates, Fangos maybe a more specifically grass-oriented tyre.Now, Grifo or Fango? hmm.
I was racing on Grifo rear and Fango front yesterday, which is my preferred intermediate combo. VamP was on mud tyres (can't remember which ones, might have been a Limus and an FMB SuperMud?) and after the race we were both happy with our tyre choices. He did finish a fair way ahead of me, but I don't think that was the tyres.
If you're only going to buy one set of tubs for a full season of racing, my suggestion would be to get Limus, and then race on clinchers in the drier stuff early in the season. It's in the really muddy stuff that tubs make the biggest difference.Pannier, 120rpm.0 -
I was initially thinking Limus, but was then told they're only really needed for the extremely muddy rounds, of which there was only 1 last year. So yeah its an intermediate setup I'm after. Never thought of using my tubeless early doors.
What are you going to be using them for? Grifo would be the traditional choice for intermediates, Fangos maybe a more specifically grass-oriented tyre.Now, Grifo or Fango? hmm.
I was racing on Grifo rear and Fango front yesterday, which is my preferred intermediate combo. VamP was on mud tyres (can't remember which ones, might have been a Limus and an FMB SuperMud?) and after the race we were both happy with our tyre choices. He did finish a fair way ahead of me, but I don't think that was the tyres.
If you're only going to buy one set of tubs for a full season of racing, my suggestion would be to get Limus, and then race on clinchers in the drier stuff early in the season. It's in the really muddy stuff that tubs make the biggest difference.
Thanks TGOTB.0 -
What are you going to be using them for? Grifo would be the traditional choice for intermediates, Fangos maybe a more specifically grass-oriented tyre.Now, Grifo or Fango? hmm.
I was racing on Grifo rear and Fango front yesterday, which is my preferred intermediate combo. VamP was on mud tyres (can't remember which ones, might have been a Limus and an FMB SuperMud?) and after the race we were both happy with our tyre choices. He did finish a fair way ahead of me, but I don't think that was the tyres.
If you're only going to buy one set of tubs for a full season of racing, my suggestion would be to get Limus, and then race on clinchers in the drier stuff early in the season. It's in the really muddy stuff that tubs make the biggest difference.
Limus yesterday. 100% agree that if you're only getting one set of tubs make them muds. Can't beat Limus for performance/durability coefficient, but if it's ultimate performance you're after then FMB Supermuds are what you want. If you get them direct from FMB they only work out about £55 at the moment with the Euro rate as it is.
Back it up with a set of Chicane or Fango clinchers either tubeless or latex tubed and you're golden for the whole season.
I've never really gotten on well with the Grifo tread, I was happy when mine died, and now ride Chicane in the conditions I might have chosen Grifo for previously.
Whatever you do, don't get the Vittoria version of the Grifo (XG) they're woeful.0 -
I currently have Vittoria XG TNT tubeless, I've only done one race on them but they weren't brilliant on the hard grass. My tubeless wheels aren't great either so I'll probably be running my tubulars all season. With this in mind will the Limus still perform in the hard pack and odd bit of tarmac or should I go with a more intermediate?
What are you going to be using them for? Grifo would be the traditional choice for intermediates, Fangos maybe a more specifically grass-oriented tyre.Now, Grifo or Fango? hmm.
I was racing on Grifo rear and Fango front yesterday, which is my preferred intermediate combo. VamP was on mud tyres (can't remember which ones, might have been a Limus and an FMB SuperMud?) and after the race we were both happy with our tyre choices. He did finish a fair way ahead of me, but I don't think that was the tyres.
If you're only going to buy one set of tubs for a full season of racing, my suggestion would be to get Limus, and then race on clinchers in the drier stuff early in the season. It's in the really muddy stuff that tubs make the biggest difference.
Limus yesterday. 100% agree that if you're only getting one set of tubs make them muds. Can't beat Limus for performance/durability coefficient, but if it's ultimate performance you're after then FMB Supermuds are what you want. If you get them direct from FMB they only work out about £55 at the moment with the Euro rate as it is.
Back it up with a set of Chicane or Fango clinchers either tubeless or latex tubed and you're golden for the whole season.
I've never really gotten on well with the Grifo tread, I was happy when mine died, and now ride Chicane in the conditions I might have chosen Grifo for previously.
Whatever you do, don't get the Vittoria version of the Grifo (XG) they're woeful.
Thanks.0 -
I currently have Vittoria XG TNT tubeless, I've only done one race on them but they weren't brilliant on the hard grass. My tubeless wheels aren't great either so I'll probably be running my tubulars all season. With this in mind will the Limus still perform in the hard pack and odd bit of tarmac or should I go with a more intermediate?
What are you going to be using them for? Grifo would be the traditional choice for intermediates, Fangos maybe a more specifically grass-oriented tyre.Now, Grifo or Fango? hmm.
I was racing on Grifo rear and Fango front yesterday, which is my preferred intermediate combo. VamP was on mud tyres (can't remember which ones, might have been a Limus and an FMB SuperMud?) and after the race we were both happy with our tyre choices. He did finish a fair way ahead of me, but I don't think that was the tyres.
If you're only going to buy one set of tubs for a full season of racing, my suggestion would be to get Limus, and then race on clinchers in the drier stuff early in the season. It's in the really muddy stuff that tubs make the biggest difference.
Limus yesterday. 100% agree that if you're only getting one set of tubs make them muds. Can't beat Limus for performance/durability coefficient, but if it's ultimate performance you're after then FMB Supermuds are what you want. If you get them direct from FMB they only work out about £55 at the moment with the Euro rate as it is.
Back it up with a set of Chicane or Fango clinchers either tubeless or latex tubed and you're golden for the whole season.
I've never really gotten on well with the Grifo tread, I was happy when mine died, and now ride Chicane in the conditions I might have chosen Grifo for previously.
Whatever you do, don't get the Vittoria version of the Grifo (XG) they're woeful.
Thanks.
It's a trade off and a lot depends on how comfortable you are having your bike sliding around under you. As a general rule though, you'll gain more by having a Limus on muddy days, then you'll lose on dry days. You'll still want a set of back up wheels (punctures) so either persevere with the XGs (I've not tried the clincher version and suspect it's just the tubulars that Vittoria got so wrong) or get some Chicanes or Fangos for your back up set, and then all your bases are somewhat covered.0 -
Oh yeah they'll still be my pit wheels. That's sorted then, Limus it is. Thanks for your help!It's a trade off and a lot depends on how comfortable you are having your bike sliding around under you. As a general rule though, you'll gain more by having a Limus on muddy days, then you'll lose on dry days. You'll still want a set of back up wheels (punctures) so either persevere with the XGs (I've not tried the clincher version and suspect it's just the tubulars that Vittoria got so wrong) or get some Chicanes or Fangos for your back up set, and then all your bases are somewhat covered.0 -
Just made the move from tubeless to tubulars. The rim width on my new tubs is 23mm. When coming to purchase some Challenge tyres all the rim widths are 15mm - 19mm. Does this mean they're aren't compatible for my rims?
Thanks.
23 is external, there are no rims on the market with external width of less than 19 mm. I think those measurements refer to internal width, but for clinchersleft the forum March 20230 -
Ah right, thanks.23 is external, there are no rims on the market with external width of less than 19 mm. I think those measurements refer to internal width, but for clinchers
Quick last question, when gluing the tubs does anyone use the belgian CX tape, if so do they know where I can get some? Can only find it in the US and the shipping is expensive. I could use glue only but the rims have quite big holes in so I think using the glue + tape method should be used.
Thanks again.0 -
Glue-only works fine with big holes in the rims (after all, by adding tape you're not increasing the amount of rim that's bonded onto something, you're just bonding it onto the rim tape instead of the tub's base tape). That said, VamP swears by the Belgian method, and will doubtless be along shortly to recommend a supplier...
Ah right, thanks.23 is external, there are no rims on the market with external width of less than 19 mm. I think those measurements refer to internal width, but for clinchers
Quick last question, when gluing the tubs does anyone use the belgian CX tape, if so do they know where I can get some? Can only find it in the US and the shipping is expensive. I could use glue only but the rims have quite big holes in so I think using the glue + tape method should be used.
Thanks again.Pannier, 120rpm.0 -
Glue-only works fine with big holes in the rims (after all, by adding tape you're not increasing the amount of rim that's bonded onto something, you're just bonding it onto the rim tape instead of the tub's base tape). That said, VamP swears by the Belgian method, and will doubtless be along shortly to recommend a supplier...
Ah right, thanks.23 is external, there are no rims on the market with external width of less than 19 mm. I think those measurements refer to internal width, but for clinchers
Quick last question, when gluing the tubs does anyone use the belgian CX tape, if so do they know where I can get some? Can only find it in the US and the shipping is expensive. I could use glue only but the rims have quite big holes in so I think using the glue + tape method should be used.
Thanks again.
Ha, I do use the Belgian method, but with wider rims it 'may' not be necessary. It all depends on how well the curvature of the tub base tape conforms to the curvature of the rim. The tape I use is Velox Jantex and you can get it from almost everywhere in the UK. Like Wiggle or Ribble kind of everywhere.
Make sure you clean your rims with alcohol, I didn't on my most recent set, and suffered a partial ungluing midway through a race, where some impurities had prevented a truly solid bond. Carbon rims seem particularly prone to this problem.
There is a new product on the market this year, the Effeto Mariposa Carogna tape. This is a new solution to tub gluing with a much thicker layer of glue and with different glues rim side and tyre side. It was designed for use by MTB racers, and early indications are that it 'may' be good enough for cross. I know a couple of very experienced cross racers trying it out this season, and if they're still using it come the end of the season, I may well go this way. It does reduce the amount of time required to glue up your tubs by a massive amount.0 -
Yeah I was reading about this yesterday. So with the Mariposa tape do you use it as part of a glue + tape job or just own it's own?Ha, I do use the Belgian method, but with wider rims it 'may' not be necessary. It all depends on how well the curvature of the tub base tape conforms to the curvature of the rim. The tape I use is Velox Jantex and you can get it from almost everywhere in the UK. Like Wiggle or Ribble kind of everywhere.
Make sure you clean your rims with alcohol, I didn't on my most recent set, and suffered a partial ungluing midway through a race, where some impurities had prevented a truly solid bond. Carbon rims seem particularly prone to this problem.
There is a new product on the market this year, the Effeto Mariposa Carogna tape. This is a new solution to tub gluing with a much thicker layer of glue and with different glues rim side and tyre side. It was designed for use by MTB racers, and early indications are that it 'may' be good enough for cross. I know a couple of very experienced cross racers trying it out this season, and if they're still using it come the end of the season, I may well go this way. It does reduce the amount of time required to glue up your tubs by a massive amount.0 -
Yeah I was reading about this yesterday. So with the Mariposa tape do you use it as part of a glue + tape job or just own it's own?Ha, I do use the Belgian method, but with wider rims it 'may' not be necessary. It all depends on how well the curvature of the tub base tape conforms to the curvature of the rim. The tape I use is Velox Jantex and you can get it from almost everywhere in the UK. Like Wiggle or Ribble kind of everywhere.
Make sure you clean your rims with alcohol, I didn't on my most recent set, and suffered a partial ungluing midway through a race, where some impurities had prevented a truly solid bond. Carbon rims seem particularly prone to this problem.
There is a new product on the market this year, the Effeto Mariposa Carogna tape. This is a new solution to tub gluing with a much thicker layer of glue and with different glues rim side and tyre side. It was designed for use by MTB racers, and early indications are that it 'may' be good enough for cross. I know a couple of very experienced cross racers trying it out this season, and if they're still using it come the end of the season, I may well go this way. It does reduce the amount of time required to glue up your tubs by a massive amount.
It's designed to be used on it's own. The tub side glue makes a 'permament' bond with the base tape, whereas the rim side glue 'should' peel off cleanly to leave a rim ready for re-gluing. There is no way of telling what might happen if you mix it with tub glue. If you do try that, let us know how you got on.
Obviously, it's a bit untested at the moment, so we will just have to wait and see.0 -
Any feedback on how easy it is to move the tyre around to get it aligned? That was always the bit I found hardest, when mounting road tubs with tape, whereas glue obviously gives you a bit of time to shift it around...
Yeah I was reading about this yesterday. So with the Mariposa tape do you use it as part of a glue + tape job or just own it's own?Ha, I do use the Belgian method, but with wider rims it 'may' not be necessary. It all depends on how well the curvature of the tub base tape conforms to the curvature of the rim. The tape I use is Velox Jantex and you can get it from almost everywhere in the UK. Like Wiggle or Ribble kind of everywhere.
Make sure you clean your rims with alcohol, I didn't on my most recent set, and suffered a partial ungluing midway through a race, where some impurities had prevented a truly solid bond. Carbon rims seem particularly prone to this problem.
There is a new product on the market this year, the Effeto Mariposa Carogna tape. This is a new solution to tub gluing with a much thicker layer of glue and with different glues rim side and tyre side. It was designed for use by MTB racers, and early indications are that it 'may' be good enough for cross. I know a couple of very experienced cross racers trying it out this season, and if they're still using it come the end of the season, I may well go this way. It does reduce the amount of time required to glue up your tubs by a massive amount.
It's designed to be used on it's own. The tub side glue makes a 'permament' bond with the base tape, whereas the rim side glue 'should' peel off cleanly to leave a rim ready for re-gluing. There is no way of telling what might happen if you mix it with tub glue. If you do try that, let us know how you got on.
Obviously, it's a bit untested at the moment, so we will just have to wait and see.Pannier, 120rpm.0 -
There's a strip of plastic protecting the tub side, so you mount as easily as onto a dry rim, get the tyre fully aligned and then pull the strip out. The guy in our club who's testing it said easy peasy. He did one wheelset in 2 hours, but the bulk of that was spent cutting the tape down to size, as he had the 23mm tape and his rims are narrower than that. It certainly looks tidy, you'd say clinchers if you didn't know.0
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I'm really tempted to go with the tape. Few people on here have tried it with success:There's a strip of plastic protecting the tub side, so you mount as easily as onto a dry rim, get the tyre fully aligned and then pull the strip out. The guy in our club who's testing it said easy peasy. He did one wheelset in 2 hours, but the bulk of that was spent cutting the tape down to size, as he had the 23mm tape and his rims are narrower than that. It certainly looks tidy, you'd say clinchers if you didn't know.
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=1684890 -
I'm really tempted to go with the tape. Few people on here have tried it with success:There's a strip of plastic protecting the tub side, so you mount as easily as onto a dry rim, get the tyre fully aligned and then pull the strip out. The guy in our club who's testing it said easy peasy. He did one wheelset in 2 hours, but the bulk of that was spent cutting the tape down to size, as he had the 23mm tape and his rims are narrower than that. It certainly looks tidy, you'd say clinchers if you didn't know.
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=168489
And a few have struggled. It's hard to have confidence in a new product when the price for its failure to perform can be so high. Mastik has been around for a really long time and is tried and tested ad infinitum. I am open to this product, but at the same time I am definitely not rushing in. Bear in mind that you want a strong bond still in December and January, not just a couple of early season races. Far too few data points as yet for me.0 -
Yep. A 2 hour saving is soon wiped out when you set aside a whole day to go to a race, and then roll a tub 50 yards beyond the exit from the pit.And a few have struggled. It's hard to have confidence in a new product when the price for its failure to perform can be so high. Mastik has been around for a really long time and is tried and tested ad infinitum. I am open to this product, but at the same time I am definitely not rushing in. Bear in mind that you want a strong bond still in December and January, not just a couple of early season races. Far too few data points as yet for me.
That said, it does sound like a wonder product, and tub gluing is not my favourite activity. I'll try it once VamP has successfully used it for a full season...Pannier, 120rpm.0 -
Yep. A 2 hour saving is soon wiped out when you set aside a whole day to go to a race, and then roll a tub 50 yards beyond the exit from the pit....And a few have struggled. It's hard to have confidence in a new product when the price for its failure to perform can be so high. Mastik has been around for a really long time and is tried and tested ad infinitum. I am open to this product, but at the same time I am definitely not rushing in. Bear in mind that you want a strong bond still in December and January, not just a couple of early season races. Far too few data points as yet for me.
Or even roll a tub in a high speed corner, hit a tree, break a bone and miss the season... I kind of consider my glue job more important than the state of my brake pads.0 -
Good points. OK glue it is.
Yep. A 2 hour saving is soon wiped out when you set aside a whole day to go to a race, and then roll a tub 50 yards beyond the exit from the pit....And a few have struggled. It's hard to have confidence in a new product when the price for its failure to perform can be so high. Mastik has been around for a really long time and is tried and tested ad infinitum. I am open to this product, but at the same time I am definitely not rushing in. Bear in mind that you want a strong bond still in December and January, not just a couple of early season races. Far too few data points as yet for me.
Or even roll a tub in a high speed corner, hit a tree, break a bone and miss the season... I kind of consider my glue job more important than the state of my brake pads.0
