Calculating Max Heart rate
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I think its common sense...if someones heart is a bit dodgy, there are going to run into serious trouble if they stress their heart by exerting themselves in hard physical exercise.WyndyMilla Massive Attack | Rourke 953 | Condor Italia 531 Pro | Boardman CX Pro | DT Swiss RR440 Tubeless Wheels
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@markhewitt1978 - Hard to say really - was first aware of it in my early 20s. I was seriously in to body building though never cheated. I needed a small op and my hospital chart had some big coded notes in red, basically not to treat my Low RHR (it was low 40s then), I think when I went through my "fat" phase in my early 30s it was probably up to about 50 or 60 - dunno didn't care. Cycling took it back to mid 40s but, I've started back in to endurance stuff and Bodybuilding again about 7 years ago (the two most incompatible combinations you could imagine).
I had an angiogram about 3 years ago and you have to fast before hand, so you are slightly dehydrated. I was showing 32-33bbp on the monitor - and promptly fainted when they put the dye in as low RHR makes you prone to vasevogal synchope and needles trigger it for me - even if they are just putting saline in or jabbing my finger for a blood sample. If I'm relaxed and calm - i'll zonk, I have to jump around a bit first to get the HR up.
@drlodge - thats my point, you often don't know you have a problem. So many people take up cycling late having been fat gits (modern careers, work stress etc) most of their adult life. Then a year or so in to being born again cyclists they are bouncing off their max without any care, that they probably have some degree of Cardiovascular disease, which by the way is very hard to reverse no matter how hard you train. Fact is - they are upping there risk.0 -
my resting is mid-30s most days and I train 5-6 days a week.
Impressive. How long has it taken to get down to that sort of level and what has it been in the past?
Just over 3 years ago before I started cycling my resting heart rate was about 90bpm. Now it's around 65.
I wouldn't get bothered about your resting heart rate. 4 years ago I had an AF attack and ended up having plenty of tests on my ticker and my RHR was in the mid thirties, It was that low the cardiologist asked if I was on drugs which I wasn't so he classed me as exceptionally fit with an athletic heart.
I do cycle, probably around five thousand miles a year but I drink a fair amount and my diet is pretty poor so I'm far from exceptionally fit.
My MHR is 185 and I'm 47 so the 220 guideline is out there too.0 -
I like the formula, it knocks nearly 30 years off
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Thanks all for your input
I do quite a bit of hill climbing. I plan to do 3 repeats up a 20%+ climb this Sunday. I'll see what my garmin records as my max heart rate during the ride and go with that!0 -
I like the formula too - it takes me back 30 years! I have an annual medical cardiac 'stress test' and they put me on a treadmill wearing a HRM and set the max of 150bpm - I was still walking at my 'maximum'!Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..0
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That's not the right way to do it, well it is sort of but at some point during the climb you need to get steadily faster and then go all out until your legs drop off. That'll be your maximum unless at that point it drops to 0, then you need to worry.Advocate of disc brakes.0
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And of course ride nice and gently for a few mins after to cool down and flush out the burn. if you are recording it, it gives you the added benefit to analyse the recovery rate which should be dropping steeply within the first 2 mins.0
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I was out riding with a friend a few weeks back and we were comparing heart rates on our Garmins and it was notable that on certain climbs where my rate was going up to 170 or so, his was generally about 20bpm lower than that, riding side by side at the same pace.
But then he can ride 20mph average for an hour, I can only manage about 16.0 -
So, I did some digging and found a couple of articles which suggest that the 220-age (and at least one other simple way to estimate) are good for about +/- 12 bpm (i.e. that was the standard error). Given that you guys are also using approximations relating to lactate threshold and the like, that seems like a serviceable estimate to me.
If your HR is as much or even further from the 220-age estimate, surely you kind of already know? And surely you can figure out your maxHR using, um, your heart rate monitors? Any reluctance to empirically determine maxHR would, in my view, breach rule #5.
TIP- I've been VO2 max tested in the past. Add 1-2bpm to any value you measure yourself just by riding or on a stationary bike.0 -
Data vs. datum.The 220 minus your age method, is a nonsense. My max HR is 21bpm over what this silly method says it should be.0 -
Haven't you read the "if you get out of breath or if you have ever had any kind of medical condition, please consult a doctor before using this apparatus" sticker on your stairmaster?If you've got it set right. Exceeding 85% should generally be avoided as this is the point where you risk damage.
Seriously - what?
Trained athletes of all ages, shapes and sizes hit MHR as a matter of routine. In any case, your lactate threshold will probably be higher than 85% anyway. That really is nonsense.
Stick to Yoga instead. Way safer.0 -
the 220 - age heart rate limit is wrong. I am 40 my max should be 180bpm
In reality even when pushing as hard as I can on hill last week and getting to the top with my lungs coming out of my chest after holding 500+W for a minute or so my heart rate hit 163 bpm. The fastest I have ever seen it was blowing up in a cat 2/3/4 race a couple of years ago at 173 bpm.
Your max heart rate is whatever it is.http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.0 -
So, wait, your best effort at measuring your maxHR put it at roughly 173, when the 220-age estimate was roughly 181? Its nearly 4.5% out. That's shocking.the 220 - age heart rate limit is wrong. I am 40 my max should be 180bpm
In reality even when pushing as hard as I can on hill last week and getting to the top with my lungs coming out of my chest after holding 500+W for a minute or so my heart rate hit 163 bpm. The fastest I have ever seen it was blowing up in a cat 2/3/4 race a couple of years ago at 173 bpm.
Your max heart rate is whatever it is.
Hammering up a hill for 60 seconds isn't long enough to reach max heart rate, I don't think.0 -
I agree with the above that 220 minus age doesn't fit with everyone.
I'm 23, so my max HR should be 197.
In reality, a year and a half ago I hit 214 on a Wattbike ramp test (213 at the end of a gruelling turbo session early this year), and regularly go over 200bpm in races and on tough hills. My 10 mile TT pace is around 195bpm which certainly shouldn't be right using the old 220 minus your age.
My doctor also says it's fine.0 -
I started off with the 220- figure (or some similar formula - I can't remember) and then a white van man chased me home and I added on 2 beats.
(But surely using FTHR as a basis must be better simply because it's eminently more measurable?)0 -
Definitely.[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19711509#p19711509]Simon Masterson[/url] wrote:(But surely using FTHR as a basis must be better simply because it's eminently more measurable?)0 -
I said I have not even hit 173 this year ( i did that 2 years ago) got to 167 this morning with an 800w effort (that one took a fair bit of recovering). My intervals can be longer than 60 seconds you know but a very intense short interval will get you to peak heart rate (try going up Hartest hill at full throttle and you will be at peak heart rate if not you have not been doing a maximal effort). A longer interval of 5 minutes or even 20 minutes never gets me above 160 bpm because if I did go higher than that I am in blow up zone.http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.0
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It is not uncommon even for trained athletes to have a low MHR. This was from the Data on Chris Froome from this years TDF:
"His average heart rate was 158 bpm, and his maximum was 174 – that equals the highest heart rate we've seen from him over the last few grand tours.”0 -
If you're trying to test a MHR, then you should look at doing a proper ramp test. Also ensure you're well rested, well hyrdated etc - rest has a significant impact on your HR during exercise, as does the type of training you do, or 'phase' you're in. Resting HR is useful too, it does help show if you're fatigued/picking up a bug etc so should be monitored.
Over time, look at your HR recovery after 1min and 2mins as I think that is one of the better indicators of improving fitness and effeciency (though this too can be masked by illness/fatigue ). Have a look at the pro's, their HR drops like a stone when recovering from an effort.0 -
Heart rates - and heart health in general - have held my interest since 8th March 2007. The day I suffered what a medical person refers to as an acute myocardial infarction. I was 25.
My cardiologist told me during my last exercise tolerance test (January 2014), necessary for my vocational driving entitlement, that there's no such thing as an exact formula for calculating MHR, only to go and measure it to be sure. He did however say that 220 - age is about as accurate as it will ever get in his experience. Mine was exact at 188bpm. People who are using Garmin or whatever, see if you can borrow a different monitor and check the variances. Could explain why 220- isn't that close in some instances.
The same cardiologist also told me that it isn't really in my interest to be pushing over 85% of my MHR. I've never had a monitor for my personal use but I can usually feel when I'm somewhere near the red zone. It also takes forever to recover from an interval, the main reasoning that I don't play sport competitively any more.
The guy at the Great Manchester Race or whatever event it was, if they were using paddles he was in cardiac arrest i.e. his heart had stopped functioning. They come out as a last resort and only when there is a suspicion that the heart has stopped. Modern de-fibs won't deliver a shock if it detects a beat.
Who can tell me the difference between a heart attack and a cardiac arrest? NO GOOGLING ALLOWED.The only disability in life is a poor attitude.0 -
My pre-google guess is that a heart attack is triggered by over exertion when there is an arterial blockage, and a cardiac arrest is effectively an electrical malfunction. Google...... yep. I don't particularly want either.
Back to the topic. Clearly there is variation in maxHR. My point is that if you are going to estimate it, 220-age is a good way to go about it. If that is miles off, and you plan on training with a monitor, you really ought to already know.
The issues here are that people don't understand the difference between an accurate estimate and a precise determination of max HR. In addition, its wholly inconsistent to deride the 220-age estimate, but to utilize a guestimate of anaerobic threshold based only on a % of HR, which is arguably even less accurate.
If you really want to get scientific about your elite athletic endeavours, neither will suffice. For mamails and weekend warriors, there estimates might be helpful.0 -
Mouth's point above really makes the point about recovery rates, which can be a very good indicator of a problem. If you are not able to recover at least 20bpm/m then you have a problem worth checking. Anyone who considers themselves to be in the 10% of fitness should be recovery at double that.
I'm currently doing some research for a hobby business project around HIIT and I'm rapidly concluding that the vast majority of the branded HIIT routines (some of which have 7:1 work to recovery ratios) are seriously bad for you if you do it more than a couple of times a week.
Personally I wont exceed 2:1 otherwise I'm kidding myself that my work phase is flat out.
In terms of hitting your max in a 1 minute interval. Its possible, but I reckon you probably want to go a little longer, 1 min at 80-85% followed by a 45 second sprint will get you closer as you'll have some recovery deficit, that you wont have in 60s. Obviously if you are already in zone 4 from your ride, then this doesn't apply.0 -
Anyone who considers themselves to be in the 10% of fitness should be recovery at double that.
At the very least least. Very fit and you should be able to drop over 60bpm per min. The pro's apparently can drop 80bpm + per minute.0 -
Let's not start worrying people with faux science..0
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Let's not start worrying people with faux science..
Might be worth quoting which bit is faux?0 -
The bit where if you don't recover at least 20bpm/m then you should rush to the docs....that bit. The GP service is already over-stretched - let's not add to it unnecessarily.0
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In all the disagreements I've had on methods with you, I don't recall you ever posting any references to research to back up your opinions? Surely this can't be true
Read the work of Michael S. Lauer on Heart rate recover as a predictor of mortality.0 -
Read the work of Michael S. Lauer on Heart rate recover as a predictor of mortality.
I don't particularly care what 'Michael S Lauer' said - although I'm not doubting he said it. My question is whether that 20bpm principle is incorporated into established NHS medical guidance, or not.0 -
What you said, was its "Faux Science", which suggested you were well read on the subject and had concluded the studies which involved more than 5,000 people for over 3 years were scientifically flawed.
http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/104/16/1911.full
<= 18bpm is considered abnormal
You are aware that NHS guidelines suggest you go see you GP if your HR is regularly below 60bpm. I think I'll ask my GP for a deal on renting an office in his surgery.0
