Knocked off at a roundabout

huskie69

Hi all

First time post here, apologies if it's in the wrong section.

I got knocked off at a roundabout on the way to work this morning. I have a 25 mile commute each way and it happened about 2 miles from my destination - typical!

Anyway, the roundabout in question gets very busy in the mornings with traffic. I signaled on my approach, joined the roundabout and noticed a car behind me who had joined from the entrance on my left - who wasn't slowing down. He hit me.

I pulled myself of the floor with blood trickling down from a wound on my knee. Was completely dazed but eventually walked over to the car which at this point was blocking all traffic. He got out of the car as I approached, with a horrified look on his face. He was absolutely distraught and probably more distressed than I was. I told him to move his car out of the way so the other cars could get past.

Not one other person stopped. There must have been at least 20 witnesses who clearly saw the whole and no-one stopped to ask if everything was ok.

Anyway, after the guy who'd SMIDSY'd me calmed down a bit, I gave my bike a quick going over. It wasn't in a rideable state but nothing major other than a severely buckled (twisted) rear wheel which bore the brunt of the impact. There is small chip on one of my bar-ends and the arse was ripped out of my bib-shorts. All in all, nothing serious and could have been a lot worse.

Maybe a bit cheeky but I made the guy drive me and the bike into work (only 2 miles away and he was heading in that direction anyway!) and he offered to cover the damage.

I can't foresee there being any issues, I've got his number, I know where he works etc. However, if the quotation for damage is more than expected and things get a bit messy, where do I actually stand? The bike is currently with my lbs who is looking at it - I asked then to give the frame a good inspection - as it's carbon, I'm concerned there might be hidden issues.

There were no witnesses who were willing stop at the scene so would it basically be my work against his? I do have a text message from him apologising again and saying he's cover the costs etc. I don't want to get the police, insurance etc involved unless I really have to, but from his stand-point, should he report the incident? Should I report it just to cover my back? I was very slightly injured (twisted ankle, arse graze, gash in knee).

Any ideas?!

StillGoing

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19704289#p19704289]huskie69[/url] wrote:

Hi all

First time post here, apologies if it's in the wrong section.

I got knocked off at a roundabout on the way to work this morning. I have a 25 mile commute each way and it happened about 2 miles from my destination - typical!

Anyway, the roundabout in question gets very busy in the mornings with traffic. I signaled on my approach, joined the roundabout and noticed a car behind me who had joined from the entrance on my left - who wasn't slowing down. He hit me.

I pulled myself of the floor with blood trickling down from a wound on my knee. Was completely dazed but eventually walked over to the car which at this point was blocking all traffic. He got out of the car as I approached, with a horrified look on his face. He was absolutely distraught and probably more distressed than I was. I told him to move his car out of the way so the other cars could get past.

Not one other person stopped. There must have been at least 20 witnesses who clearly saw the whole and no-one stopped to ask if everything was ok.

Anyway, after the guy who'd SMIDSY'd me calmed down a bit, I gave my bike a quick going over. It wasn't in a rideable state but nothing major other than a severely buckled (twisted) rear wheel which bore the brunt of the impact. There is small chip on one of my bar-ends and the ars* was ripped out of my bib-shorts. All in all, nothing serious and could have been a lot worse.

Maybe a bit cheeky but I made the guy drive me and the bike into work (only 2 miles away and he was heading in that direction anyway!) and he offered to cover the damage.

I can't foresee there being any issues, I've got his number, I know where he works etc. However, if the quotation for damage is more than expected and things get a bit messy, where do I actually stand? The bike is currently with my lbs who is looking at it - I asked then to give the frame a good inspection - as it's carbon, I'm concerned there might be hidden issues.

There were no witnesses who were willing stop at the scene so would it basically be my work against his? I do have a text message from him apologising again and saying he's cover the costs etc. I don't want to get the police, insurance etc involved unless I really have to, but from his stand-point, should he report the incident? Should I report it just to cover my back? I was very slightly injured (twisted ankle, ars* graze, gash in knee).

Any ideas?!

As it is an injury collision, unless he has provided you with his insurance details, he has to report the collision to the police as soon as practicable and within 24 hours. He doesn't have 24 hours to do it, but up to 24 hours if it has been impracticable to report it sooner.

veronese68

Sorry to hear that and hope the bike is ok and you don't feel worse in the morning. Have a read of this:
viewtopic.php?f=40052&t=12722930
Obviously only the after the accident bit will be relevant. Good luck, keep us posted on how you get on. Oh, and welcome aboard. Hope your next thread is a happier one.

huskie69

Well, the bike didn't come off too badly considering the speed of the impact. The frame was inspected and it's been given the all clear. The rear wheel was totally twisted up but seemed to have absorbed all of the impact. That, along with a rear derailleur hanger and some bar tape and it's good to go. £150 plus £40 for my bib shorts and the guy transferred the money to me as soon as I told him how much it wall was.

Also treated myself to a Garmin VIRB so if it happens again, it's all on camera 8)

homers_double

Good result, goes to show that all drivers are not hell bent on causing death to all cyclists.

diy

If you are both happy with the result then great. However, its not the best thing to do for either of you:

1. If you settle you need it to be in full and final settlement to prevent any additional claims (though obviously if you are the claimant its in your favour not to)
2. If you do this as a driver, your insurance will wash their hands of you and you will be left with any possible Personal injury claim, as payment will be an admission of liability.
3. you probably under settled not taking in to account cuts and bruises etc.. and of course run the risk of not being able to claim for more complex injuries (though actually re point 1, you probably still could)
4. He needs to give you information more formally than he probably did, to avoid committing an offence as per the above - i.e. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/170

But still if there are no further complications its a good deal, to get your money quickly and be charitable to someone who does the right thing.

pblakeney

I had a similar incident with a similar outcome.

But.....

I probably wouldn't be as nice next time. The driver who hit me was shocked at the bill presented, and I assume most would be the same. Most drivers will assume that a bike costs @ £200 so the costs won't be high and may baulk later.
I won't chance it again even if there are good drivers/people out there.

rumbataz

Just for peace of mind, you should also get yourself checked out to make sure there's nothing wrong with you.

huskie69

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19708087#p19708087]PBlakeney[/url] wrote:

I had a similar incident with a similar outcome.

But.....

I probably wouldn't be as nice next time. The driver who hit me was shocked at the bill presented, and I assume most would be the same. Most drivers will assume that a bike costs @ £200 so the costs won't be high and may baulk later.
I won't chance it again even if there are good drivers/people out there.

Agreed. They're all shocked when they realise the bikes are worth just as much as their cars (and depreciate just as quickly!)

If it does happen again, and I can pick myself up off the road quickly enough, I will make sure I flag down at least 1 other witness who can verify what happened. I'm still appalled that not one other person bothered to stop.

I am glad that the costs were relatively low given the overall cost of the bike. I did however persuade him to report the incident to the police who then confirmed that he was taking responsibility (so it was on record). So I believe if things ended up costing a bit more than anticipated, the police report shows that he admitted liability and I could have claimed against his insurance.

sungod

get yourself checked

take photos of all injuries and damage

make factual notes of everything while you remember it - stick to fact not opinion, so no "he didn't see me", that's your opinion, whereas "he said he didn't see me" is a factual statement

do a diagram of what happened, who was where etc.

get lbs to give a quote for full repair, or statement that it is beyond economic repair and what the cost will be

add to this costs for clothes etc. that have been damaged

if all goes well you won't need to come back to notes etc., but people can changed their mind when what they thought was going to cost a few quid turns out to be hundreds/thousands, in the absence of witnesses it is critical you document it all while fresh

huskie69

Cheers for the info although the injuries I sustained were very minor and I'm not in the game of milking it unlike the cagers who shout whiplash whenever they've been in a low impact bang - and subsequently raise the premiums for the rest of us.

Had I been unable to walk away from it and there was obviously something wrong (mangled foot, something needing stitches, bit of offal poking out somewhere etc) then I might have considered an injury claim etc, but I'm otherwise fit an healthy and I'll mend. It's the damage to the kit I was more concerned about as these things generally cost a few quid to mend!

Just glad it's all over as I could have come out of much worse

diy

you're jammed full of adrenalin when you get knocked off, you feel almost nothing. Its often a week or so before you release you've caused some lasting damage.

I still have a dodgy wrist from a motorbike accident more than 5 years ago.

roger_merriman

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19708128#p19708128]diy[/url] wrote:

you're jammed full of adrenalin when you get knocked off, you feel almost nothing. Its often a week or so before you release you've caused some lasting damage.

I still have a dodgy wrist from a motorbike accident more than 5 years ago.

This I rode on from a fall that had broken my wrist, over the mountain, it was really quite painful in a day or two!

slowbike

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19704289#p19704289]huskie69[/url] wrote:

Maybe a bit cheeky but I made the guy drive me and the bike into work (only 2 miles away and he was heading in that direction anyway!) and he offered to cover the damage.

Nothing cheeky about that at all - he knocked you off - albeit unintentionally, obviously shocked that he didn't see you (you need to think about that too*) and wanted to make amends - so he did what he could - take you and your bike to your destination ...
Not disimilar to my one and only off many moons ago when at Uni where I got doored - the chap appologised, took me and my bike to a local bike shop then dropped me at college - he then came and picked me up from college, back to the bike shop and paid for the front wheel that was knackered ... Ok - bike was much cheaper, but it was my method of transport and I just needed that working ... both he and I learnt a lesson that day - Look! and perhaps I shouldn't ride quite so close to the car doors!

* if he didn't see you is there anything you could now do to improve your chances of being seen - if it's a busy roundabout then you need to ensure you stand out amoungst the cars - a good flashing headlight, hi-vis clothing? (I hate hi-vis ...) or something ... doesn't mean you'll always be seen, but it might help ... ?

huskie69

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19708272#p19708272]Slowbike[/url] wrote:

* if he didn't see you is there anything you could now do to improve your chances of being seen - if it's a busy roundabout then you need to ensure you stand out amoungst the cars - a good flashing headlight, hi-vis clothing? (I hate hi-vis ...) or something ... doesn't mean you'll always be seen, but it might help ... ?

Bit of a ramble.....TLDR: I got me some better lights!
...
I think the "I just didn't see you" response is a knee jerk reaction in most of these cases. There's some interesting academic papers knocking about on the physical limitations of humans in quick moving traffic, basically suggesting we haven't evolved quickly enough / have reached the limits of our abilities to process our surroundings in a quick paced environment, basically pushing us to information overload.

So he may have done everything by the book - slowed down on his approach to the roundabout (he did otherwise I would have come out much worse), he may have looked for oncoming traffic on his approach, and he may have even double checked and spotted me but he was already on auto-pilot and couldn't disengage quickly enough!

I'm not pinning the blame entirely on him as we're all only human and do have limitations.

As for making myself more visible, I've invested in a set of Fibre Flare rear lights which should enable drivers to see me from most angles, and I've got a set of ultra bright cree front lights. I also detest hi-vis and you see so much of it around these days that I think people have begun to ignore it (similar to car alarms), assigning it to their blind spot.

I think I'll start riding more aggressively too. As that roundabout is quite a large one (not large enough for 2 lanes but quite wide) I tend to position myself over to the left as other cars try and overtake me while I'm going round. I think I'll make a point of setting myself up in the centre from now on so more road users are aware of me as I go round.

svetty

Reading this I am slightly concerned at some of the comments. It seems clear that the motorist was quite open and honest in accepting that he was at fault and has done his best to 'make things right'. The adversarial tone of some posters implies an 'us and them' mentality that does no one any good in the long run - and I speak as a cyclist who has been knocked off myself with a 3K carbon bike written off and weeks off work with MSK injuries.

slowbike

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19708319#p19708319]huskie69[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19708272#p19708272]Slowbike[/url] wrote:

* if he didn't see you is there anything you could now do to improve your chances of being seen - if it's a busy roundabout then you need to ensure you stand out amoungst the cars - a good flashing headlight, hi-vis clothing? (I hate hi-vis ...) or something ... doesn't mean you'll always be seen, but it might help ... ?

Bit of a ramble.....TLDR: I got me some better lights!
...
I think the "I just didn't see you" response is a knee jerk reaction in most of these cases. There's some interesting academic papers knocking about on the physical limitations of humans in quick moving traffic, basically suggesting we haven't evolved quickly enough / have reached the limits of our abilities to process our surroundings in a quick paced environment, basically pushing us to information overload.

yup - I agree - I think this may be more a case of "Sorry Mate I Didn't See You In Time" .... so, like you've done - lights to make you more visible (without pissing off other road users please!) and change your ride style - how about make sure you sit up as well? - even if just for this junction - should make you more noticable ...

huskie69

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19708410#p19708410]Svetty[/url] wrote:

Reading this I am slightly concerned at some of the comments. It seems clear that the motorist was quite open and honest in accepting that he was at fault and has done his best to 'make things right'. The adversarial tone of some posters implies an 'us and them' mentality that does no one any good in the long run - and I speak as a cyclist who has been knocked off myself with a 3K carbon bike written off and weeks off work with MSK injuries.

I don't think that undertone is likely to change any time soon. Being a cyclist, motorcyclist and car driver I can sympathise with the views of all groups.

I think the biggest issue between road cyclists and drivers in general is the lack of (or lack of understanding) clearly defined rules for collisions with cyclists. Personally, I feel that because cyclists aren't "insured" (and how often do we hear the "they don't pay road tax, so why should they be on the road" chestnut!) there doesn't seem to be the same need for transferring details and all the usual formalities. Cyclists seem to be practically in a grey area between being a pedestrian and road user.

I've been in a very similar situation on a motorbike (another SMIDSY, minor injuries) but it was all dealt with above board (after finally getting the police involved). Back to the recent cycling accident, even the police didn't seem too bothered by it all (fine by me as long as both parties are in agreement over responsibility etc).

There also seems to be a general consensus among drivers that cyclists should make themselves more visible. While agree in part, there is only so much they can do and the onus shouldn't be placed solely on them to prove their own existence!

diy

Being seen is not just about high viz though, I used to ride police spec high viz pan euros. covered in high viz with instructor etc on the back and plenty of people didn't see me.

The issue is often people get in a routine and don't expect to see you. I haven't put much thought in to the best line for a cyclist to take through a roundabout. but for motorbikes it's often the avoid oil line or kerb kerb kerb.

Frank Wilson

Being the cynic that I am and assuming the incident happened early morning on your way to work, I can't help wondering if the car driver was so compliant and helpful as perhaps he did not want to be breathalysed if the police were to attend the scene.

huskie69

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19709438#p19709438]Frank Wilson[/url] wrote:

Being the cynic that I am and assuming the incident happened early morning on your way to work, I can't help wondering if the car driver was so compliant and helpful as perhaps he did not want to be breathalysed if the police were to attend the scene.

That is very cynical indeed - but not totally unreasonable given that he was a teacher

rch30

Fly 6 is a very good rearward facing camera/light - £99 vgv - would have captured car hitting your read wheel.

huskie69

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19709693#p19709693]rch30[/url] wrote:

Fly 6 is a very good rearward facing camera/light - £99 vgv - would have captured car hitting your read wheel.

Already splashed out on a Garmin VIRB from (£75 from IWOOT) at the weekend. It's not the best but not too bad considering every single chipping and lump in the road is transferred straight through the handlebars.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u-MX1askj4

Once I'm feeling a bit more flush, I'll transfer the Garmin to the rear and treat myself to something better for the front.

EDIT: Actually, that Fly 6 is quite tempting! I'm wondering if the resolution is high enough to capture number plates etc.

paul_onabike

You might have to mess around with the settings on your virb to get a readable number plate. Mine just about gives a readable plate when on super zoom in 1080p resolution. Had an minor incident a couple of weeks ago when a car turned right across me and I had to come to do an "emergency stop" in the road to avoid a collision. Didn't take note of the number plate as I thought it was all on video, only to find it was actually unreadable at less than 10m. I was on standard zoom using 720p resolution at this time trying to make the best use of the memory card.

huskie69

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19709822#p19709822]Paul Onabike[/url] wrote:

You might have to mess around with the settings on your virb to get a readable number plate. Mine just about gives a readable plate when on super zoom in 1080p resolution. Had an minor incident a couple of weeks ago when a car turned right across me and I had to come to do an "emergency stop" in the road to avoid a collision. Didn't take note of the number plate as I thought it was all on video, only to find it was actually unreadable at less than 10m. I was on standard zoom using 720p resolution at this time trying to make the best use of the memory card.

I'm recording on 1080p ultrazoom on the VIRB. I did notice quite a reduction in quality when I dropped it to 720p. If I opted to fit a rear camera too, I think I'd want one that would help identify the driver/reg number etc.

I've got the 64GB memory card and dump everthing over to an external hard disk after a ride (then wipe the SD card).

Even more off topic... @Paul Onabike - assuming you're on a road bike too, do you get the same issues with stability with the VIRB as I do? Is there anything you do to help circumvent this? The image stabilisation option doesn't really seem to make much difference.

slowbike

It might just be the camera angle - but it looks like you're riding in the door zone when you go past parked cars ....

huskie69

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19709840#p19709840]Slowbike[/url] wrote:

It might just be the camera angle - but it looks like you're riding in the door zone when you go past parked cars ....

You're right, but I can see they're empty. I don't like swerving to avoid parked cars as there's quite often traffic behind me. I do give them a good 2-3ft clearance too (so yes, partly the effect of the camera lens).

slowbike

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19709844#p19709844]huskie69[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19709840#p19709840]Slowbike[/url] wrote:

It might just be the camera angle - but it looks like you're riding in the door zone when you go past parked cars ....

You're right, but I can see they're empty. I don't like swerving to avoid parked cars as there's quite often traffic behind me. I do give them a good 2-3ft clearance too (so yes, partly the effect of the camera lens).

you shouldn't swerve - a smooth move out in plenty of time - if there are vehicles behind and you're moving into their path then you should indicate - btw - how do you suck eggs?

huskie69

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19709853#p19709853]Slowbike[/url] wrote:

you shouldn't swerve - a smooth move out in plenty of time - if there are vehicles behind and you're moving into their path then you should indicate - btw - how do you suck eggs?

Noted I'll adjust my riding style - on reflection, I do hug the left a bit too much, as close to the kirb as I can so I often end up swinging out to avoid obstacles (i.e. manhole and drain covers etc).

paul_onabike

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19709833#p19709833]huskie69[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19709822#p19709822]Paul Onabike[/url] wrote:

You might have to mess around with the settings on your virb to get a readable number plate. Mine just about gives a readable plate when on super zoom in 1080p resolution. Had an minor incident a couple of weeks ago when a car turned right across me and I had to come to do an "emergency stop" in the road to avoid a collision. Didn't take note of the number plate as I thought it was all on video, only to find it was actually unreadable at less than 10m. I was on standard zoom using 720p resolution at this time trying to make the best use of the memory card.

I'm recording on 1080p ultrazoom on the VIRB. I did notice quite a reduction in quality when I dropped it to 720p. If I opted to fit a rear camera too, I think I'd want one that would help identify the driver/reg number etc.

I've got the 64GB memory card and dump everthing over to an external hard disk after a ride (then wipe the SD card).

Even more off topic... @Paul Onabike - assuming you're on a road bike too, do you get the same issues with stability with the VIRB as I do? Is there anything you do to help circumvent this? The image stabilisation option doesn't really seem to make much difference.

Yes I have mine on a road bike, and I also found the image stabilisation to be useless in practice, and never found a solution to obtain a better picture. I do use the video loop function to save card space - gives me a couple of weeks riding before the card fills up and I have to erase it.

diy

You can get the trusty spy cams in a 1080p format with a waterproof casing for around £60 - search for 808 #26 or the 720P version for 23 quid. I've had mine for a few years no and they are brilliant. To be fair they are weather proof anyway.

Can easily be connected to an external power supply (mini usb) to give many hours. The advantage is that mounted on a helmet they are discrete, so you wont find the errant driver is so likely to mug you for the evidence while you lay broken in the road:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/powerdigital898?_trksid=p2047675.l2559