When to move to 'proper' pedals?

rumbataz

My current (budget) bike has steel flat pedals that have served me well for a few years. I ride with my gym/running trainers and have never had an issue. My current bike is a hybrid.

The new bike I'm getting shortly is a proper road bike and will come with basic nylon flat pedals fitted with a cage.

What's the 'correct' upgrade path for pedals on a road bike? Obviously the nylon pedals are not meant to be used forever, but which direction should I go in after a few months of riding the new road bike? It'll be my first road bike.

The advisor in the shop did suggest that I shouldn't go for open flat pedals as the front wheel will be much closer to my toes and I run the risk of fouling the wheel if I adjust my feet intentionally or unintentionally.

Grill

Immediately.

rumbataz

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19702214#p19702214]oxoman[/url] wrote:

If your happy on flat pedals then stick with them otherwise I would be looking at SPD pedals which are used on mountain bikes and road bikes as the shoes are easier to walk in.

Any views on these Shimano M324 Combination Pedals?

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-m324-combination-pedals/

They seem to be a good first 'proper pedal' set with the added benefit of having a flat pedal body on one side so I could still wear normal shoes before moving up to proper cycling shoes.

sungod

depends on what you want to use the bike for

if you're going to go roadie, then fit road pedals...

i get the feeling you're going to have two bikes, so for 'casual' days you've got the current one, for road days, on the road bike, fit road pedals

there are several systems, budget is also a factor, aside from pedals you'll need shoes too, if you can indicate what you're willing to fork out then people can suggest possible options

bob6397

I would not recommend the combination pedals - When I first got SPD's I thought "Great Idea!". I later realised that they were either SPD side up when using normal trainers (so you have no grip, especially if it's wet..) or Flat side up when using SPD shoes (so you have almost no grip..).

Make the leap, get a pair of PD-M540 (It's worth it over the 520's) pedals and a pair of shimano shoes.. Remember to go up a size for Shimano shoes though as they always come up small.. I am a UK size 10 which should be a 42 or 43 - Instead I ride 45's and I may be about to grow out of them...

Once you start using them, you won't go back.. It's so much easier and the effort saved (and the confidence gained) not having to stop your feet sliding off the pedals is huge - plus you feel more connected to the bike..

bob6397

rumbataz

@sungod: Yes, I'll have two bikes - my current budget hybrid will get me through Winter/rain/horrible weather and the new road bike for nicer days. I only cycle during daylight hours. Budget would be around £100 for pedals and up to £150 for shoes. Obviously if there's a cheaper option for a road bike beginner then that's always better!

@bob6397: thanks for the advice on the 540s. I guess I'm just a bit nervous and was trying to stay in my comfort zone of having flat pedals that I can wear my trainers with!

buckmulligan

I agree with others, just suck it up and get some now. The mountain bike style SPD pedals are more forgiving for a newbie than the various road versions and if you get some multi-direction release cleats (SM-SH55 iirc) then you can get out of them in an emergency with a good yank of your foot rather than the proper twisting motion.

One thing I would say is that, in my experience, the rubbish stock pedals that come supplied with new bikes are usually absolutely awful and particularly lethal in the wet with feet slipping off as soon as you get out of the saddle. Get rid of them ASAP even if it's for more flats.

rumbataz

Many thanks for the advice.

In terms of changing the pedals over, I've watched a few YouTube videos now and it looks like I will need either a special pedal hex key or a pedal wrench. I understand that the thread orientation is different for the left and right pedals.

Apart from the physical strength required, it doesn't appear to be such a daunting job (I hope!).

What I might do is buy them and fit them on my old bike first to try them out as I'm not too bothered about scuffing that bike up!

mrb123

A normal 15mm spanner will probably do the job, just make sure you're turning in the correct direction as per your YouTube video.

keef66

"Make the leap, get a pair of PD-M540 (It's worth it over the 520's) pedals"

Can I ask what it is that you think is worth nearly twice the price? (£17 vs £30 on Wiggle)

I have 540s on one bike and 520s on the other. The only material difference seems to be the slimmer axle and slightly less chunky pedal body on the former which means they are lighter and you have to use a hex key on them rather than a pedal spanner.

Looking at the Shimano tech docs exploded diagrams side by side it appears that the internals, bearings, seals etc are identical.

Despite servicing them recently, the M540's are feeling a bit rough after 8 years. So I'm replacing them but with M520s unless I've missed something??

rumbataz

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19703291#p19703291]BuckMulligan[/url] wrote:

One thing I would say is that, in my experience, the rubbish stock pedals that come supplied with new bikes are usually absolutely awful and particularly lethal in the wet with feet slipping off as soon as you get out of the saddle. Get rid of them ASAP even if it's for more flats.

You are right!

I did a couple of very short test rides yesterday of just a few km, mainly to get used to the new method of changing gears. However, I found the nylon pedals and toe straps really awkward and difficult to get on with so I actually spent more time faffing about with the pedals than focussing on gear changes.

It was a bright and sunny day and I chose some very quiet roads near my home to ride along so I did minimise the risk of any major incidents.

The gears turned out to be not much of a problem to get used to, but getting my feet into the toe straps caused a few wobbly moments.

I'm still using my (very) old Asics Gel Kinsei 2 gym trainers for riding. These have a very thick and chunky sole and tread. I think they are totally unsuitable for a road bike so will look to get some 'proper' pedals and bike shoes as a matter of urgency.

ayjaycee

My advice would be to go to SPD pedals ASAP and, even if you don't, get rid of the supplied pedals as a matter of urgency. As has already been said, they are bad news in the wet and you have already discovered for yourself that the toe straps (or whatever they are called) are practically unusable anyway. SPDs are very easy to get in and out of, particularly the double sided ones. I would however disagree with Bob about the usefulness (or otherwise) of the combination pedals (ie SPD on one side, flat on the other). They are perfectly OK and it becomes second nature to flip them over to the side that you want after a bit of practise. They also let you build up confidence with the whole clipping in and out thing if you need it. Personally, I have got Shimano SPD-A600s (single sided) on one road bike, Shimano SPD-M540s (double sided) on another and Shimano SPD-A530s (combination) on my hybrid.
Last but not least, the pedals supplied with the bike probably look seriously carp as well.

bob6397

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19703443#p19703443]keef66[/url] wrote:

"Make the leap, get a pair of PD-M540 (It's worth it over the 520's) pedals"

Can I ask what it is that you think is worth nearly twice the price? (£17 vs £30 on Wiggle)

I have 540s on one bike and 520s on the other. The only material difference seems to be the slimmer axle and slightly less chunky pedal body on the former which means they are lighter and you have to use a hex key on them rather than a pedal spanner.

Looking at the Shimano tech docs exploded diagrams side by side it appears that the internals, bearings, seals etc are identical.

Despite servicing them recently, the M540's are feeling a bit rough after 8 years. So I'm replacing them but with M520s unless I've missed something??

You've explained it yourself - name a cheaper way of losing 100g from your bike? (Losing weight yourself not included)

I have M520's on my MTB and M540's on my road bike. If I was buying again, I would have 2 pairs of M540's - They are much lighter (352g vs 450g), and look neater as they have steel not plastic axles. The loss of a point for your 15mm spanner is moot as you just use the allen key on the back instead

I would always recommend getting the silver version of either though - the paint can't wear away so they stay looking neater for a lot longer as opposed to the white or black versions..

bob6397

ayjaycee

I would support what Bob says about going for the silver version. The paint on the A600s on my Synapse started chipping off on day one and it's always annoyed me that they look scruffy if I pay close attention to them (which I don't do very often!) - one of these days, I will get around to scraping the rest of the paint off. By contrast, the plain silver finish on the M540s fitted to my Allez still looks as good as new after a lot of use.

Bob, Sorry to contradict you if you read this but I don't think that a European Shoe Size 42 or 43 equates to a UK Size 10 - more like 8 - 8.5. A Size 10 is more akin to the 45 that you actually bought (although some charts call that 11).

rumbataz

Great advice, so a big thank you to you all.

Rather than start new threads, I'll ask a couple of pedal-related questions in here. The temporary nylon pedals on my new bike and the steel flats on my old bike require a spanner to remove them (15mm, I believe) - they have no hex socket. It's likely that my new SPD pedals won't have a flat spanner grip on them and can only be installed and removed using a hex Allen key (8mm I believe).

So, I guess I'll need a 15mm pedal spanner (wrench) AND an 8mm long hex Allen key. Is this correct?

Also, I've read that it's a good idea to apply grease or copper-slip to the pedal thread before screwing it onto the crank so that future removal will be easier. I've also read some conflicting reports about using copper-slip. So, what do you guys use on the pedal threads as I need to order the grease or copper-slip soon.

ayjaycee

I can only talk about the pedals on my bikes but here is what I need to change them:

Shimano PD-A600 (single sided SPD). 8mm hex key.
Shimano PD-M540 (double sided SPD). 8mm hex key.
Shimano PD-M530 (SPD one side / flat other side). 15mm spanner or 6mm hex key.
The ally SKS flats on my wifes bike also use either a 15mm spanner or 6mm hex key.

I always use 'all purpose' lithium grease on the threads and have never had any trouble getting them on or off (sorry, can't comment on copper slip as I have never used it).

Others will feel free to correct me but a couple of other points occur. Depending on how tight the current pedals are, you will not necessarily need a dedicated pedal spanner - I've got a Park Tools model which is great but any 15mm spanner should do it if they are not on too tight - the advantage of the dedicated pedal spanner is that they are longer that the average 15mm 'ordinary' spanner and thus give more leverage. An adjustable wrench should also do the job providing it is of decent quality - I always find the cheap ones have too much play in the jaws and can slip which either damages the nut being worked on or your hand when the wrench slips. Tightness might also be a problem if you need to use an 6mm hex - again, not enough leverage (and that might also be a problem when tightening new ones - see below).

From memory, most Shimano SPD pedals are supposed to be put on with around 40nm of torque. The only torque wrench that I own only goes up to 15nm so I have no idea how tight 40nm is (but suspect it's pretty tight). That said, I just do them up to what I think is tight enough (ie. I use The Force) and have never had any issues. As I understand it, one of the reasons why the thread is reversed on one side is that the pedal is always moving in the 'tightening direction' when you are pedalling and thus they should never come loose anyway. Read the instructions that come with whatever you eventually buy.

One final thing. If you do go down the SPD route, I can recommend Shimano MT44 shoes but there will be plenty of other recommendations out there. Mine are fitted with the Shimano SH56 cleats which are an extra cost but do make unclipping from virtually any direction (in extremis, including straight up) a doddle. In addition, although you wouldn't want to run a marathon in them, they are very easy to walk in which is something that I have never found with dedicated road shoes (ie. SPD-SL) that I have used.

Sorry to go on at such length but hope it helps.

keef66

I always use copperslip on pedal threads. And the cleat bolts in shoes. Nice to know they are going to come undone when you need them to, despite repeated dousing with salty, filthy water.

I'd say if there are flats for a 15mm pedal spanner use those. The 6mm hex sockets aren't really meant for fully tightening / undoing the pedals according to some Shimano stuff I read recently.

The 8mm hex socket is plenty beefy enough though. No need to buy a special tool; normal length allen key with a bit of pipe over the end will suffice.

And 100g is nothing to me so I think I'll save the money and go with M520s

ayjaycee

I agree with Keef that 100gms is nothing really. Some of the superhumans on the site will beg to differ but for us mere mortals, it's just the same as having a mouthful less in a water bottle. I've got to say that I don't know if there is any material difference between the 520s and 540s. I originally bought the 540s for my hybrid as I make it a principle to rarely buy the cheapest of anything on the basis that I have usually regretted it afterwards and then spent more money anyway (doubly so when it comes to tools). As to the A600s, they do the same job but in my opinion look so much nicer on a road bike than the double sided varieties, That said, they are a more expensive at nearly twice the price of the 540s.

keef66

I was for a while considering the single sided touring type SPDs for reasons of weight and bling.
But then I started thinking that with the double sided pedals I was getting twice as many retention mechansisms for my money, so I was sold on the 540s.
Then when my old 540s started clicking and I swapped in the newer 520s from my winter bike I thought a) these are nice and quiet, and b) I can't tell the difference once I'm clipped in, so I might as well get another pair of these!

And according to the weights on Wiggle the difference between the 520 and 540 is just 68g (420g vs 352g)

ryanshattered

Just to add a tip regarding removing the stock pedals - remove the strap from one of your toeclips and use it to fasten the crank arm to the downtube of the bike. This means you can use both hands on the pedal spanner on the opposite crank and you can apply the required force as the crank won't turn.

simon_masterson

The ones you get with new bikes are rubbish, but you have to loosen your straps enough to get into them. I'm a bit out of practice, but the flip is easier to get the hang of than being getting into single sided road pedals. I'd go back to clips and straps before plain platforms any day.

Thigh_burn

I just ordered my first road bike and went with the SPD 530s. I get that they are heavier and over time I may need to upgrade, but strikes me as the right option. Especially as it means that as long as I'm wearing my cycling shoes, I can get going, whichever side of the pedal my foot lands on.

simon_masterson

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19708133#p19708133]Thigh_burn[/url] wrote:

I just ordered my first road bike and went with the SPD 530s. I get that they are heavier and over time I may need to upgrade, but strikes me as the right option. Especially as it means that as long as I'm wearing my cycling shoes, I can get going, whichever side of the pedal my foot lands on.

The pedals are heavier than the other SPD options - if you want lighter, the published weight of the A600 is lower than the SL equivalent. Don't worry about the marketing victims and the fashion police - SPDs are very good for road cycling.

rumbataz

Fitted the new pedals on today straight onto the new bike rather than the old bike. Old nylon pedals removed with bike pedal spanner (15mm) and new pedals fitted with 8mm allen key, remembering to grease the pedal threads. Refitted the cleats onto my bike shoes after greasing the screws. The whole job was far, far easier than I expected.

I practised by removing the pedals off my old bike first and these came off without having to exert too much force - bike is 4 years old and the pedals have never been removed. As it was a budget bike I expected the pedals to be seized but they had been greased so I guess that's why they came off okay.

I practised clipping in and out on the new bike whilst stationary for now. Clipping in was not too bad, but clipping out required a huge amount of force. The pedals are set to their softest setting. I think the force required to clip out is far too much right now so I'm just going to practise whilst stationary a bit more before going out riding.

Worst case scenario I might buy a different set of pedals and keep the ones I've got and fit them next year. I may have gone too far in my first set of 'proper' bike pedals!

lesfirth

OP. When unclipping try to consciously press down on the pedal. This is not needed but makes sure that you overcome your instinct to pull your foot up. As you do that twist you foot i.e. toe in heel out. You will soon wonder what all the fuss was about!

dj58

OP as above, read through this link, scroll down the page to ENGAGEMENT AND RELEASE OF SPD SHOES
http://www.shimano-lifestylegear.com/gl/fw/technologies/application_table.php

rumbataz

Thanks for the advice and support. I'll practise as per the Shimano website recommendations a lot more over the weekend. I'm a bit more confident now, many thanks!

rumbataz

So, today was the day that I broke my clipless pedal virginity! I've had a tumultuously nervous week in anticipation.

I spent a few minutes practising whilst stationary and then heaved off using the foot that was clipped in. I tried not to look down but it was really difficult as the free pedal was upside down. I had enough forward momentum to get it right side up and got the other foot clipped in too.

After that it was a ride to the end of the road and whilst slowing down I clipped out my right leg (I know it ought to be the left leg, which is nearest to the kerb, but I've always put my right foot down at lights). I made sure I was in an easy gear too.

After that I rode back home and adjusted the seat height as it felt too low and then just did another half a dozen test rides for the next hour or so. Towards the end I started to enjoy myself. I had two wobbly moments. During the process I also managed to learn how to slide off the seat when coming to a stop and also how to get onto the seat when moving off - something I've never done before.

To be honest, I would never have got this far if it wasn't for the help and advice that I've received from this forum.

I'm going to ride the a*se off the bike tomorrow!

A really big thank you to all on here for the really valuable help, advice and encouragement that I've received. It's truly appreciated as I've got a new energy and enthusiasm for cycling now.