Protruding copper rivets on brand new Brooks saddle
andUK
Posts: 85
Have just bought a brand new in the box Brooks Swift Saddle.
Am concerned that whilst most of the copper rivet heads are dressed below the leather, a couple of them are not and sit a bit above the leather enough to make me feel this will have a wearing effect on my shorts.
I have contacted Brooks who seem very dismissive and have advised me to dress them with a hammer myself.
It seems odd to buy a brand new saddle and be advised to dress rivet heads that to my way of thinking should have been dressed below the leather at the factory.
Any Brooks owners had similar or can advise?
Am concerned that whilst most of the copper rivet heads are dressed below the leather, a couple of them are not and sit a bit above the leather enough to make me feel this will have a wearing effect on my shorts.
I have contacted Brooks who seem very dismissive and have advised me to dress them with a hammer myself.
It seems odd to buy a brand new saddle and be advised to dress rivet heads that to my way of thinking should have been dressed below the leather at the factory.
Any Brooks owners had similar or can advise?
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Comments
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Hi,
Is there a reason you can't return the saddle to the shop you've purchased it from? I've had two swift saddles (the 1st one was stolen) and yours sounds defective by comparison. Also brooks response is obv disappointing to say the least...Cannondale caad7 ultegra
S-works Tarmac sl5 etap
Colnago c64 etap wifli
Brother Swift0 -
Take it back - you shouldn't have to sort that out yourself.0
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Take it back - you shouldn't have to sort that out yourself.
Yepp, this. Take it back to where you bought it and report it as faulty. You then have a choice to wait for it to be repaired, a replacement or a full refund under consumer laws.0 -
The response from Brooks seems most unusual. It seems odd that they should think the average cyclist has the tools or expertise to flatten rivet heads without dinging the leather.
I'd take it back, if you bought it from a shop.
I'd return it if it's from an online retailer.
However, if it was bought at a discount on eBay or similar as "brand new still boxed" from a seller with a name like "Binky 12345", then I fear you've been had and you might want to look for your ball peen hammer and start with the old clippety-clop on the rivet head.
But if you're just worried about wearing out your shorts, then I'd take no action at all. Shorts wear out anyway, and a slightly protruding rivet isn't going to make much difference.0 -
I contacted Brooks and spoke with a different person.
He assured me that on their brand new saddles some copper rivets are below the leather, ie you can feel no edge of the rivet head and some rivets are not. That is the quality they aim for - each saddle is an individual piece of work. He assured me he could go and pull any other Brooks saddle off the shelf and the riveting would be the same as on my saddle.
Next I was informed that Brooks saddles are designed to sit on in one position and are not meant for moving around on.
Also I was informed that modern lycra cycling shorts are not ideal in so much as they can snag and be damaged on the rivet heads.
Re: the retailer. I bought the saddle from Bike-discount.de. (£64 as opposed to £99 in the UK). The Brooks person told me that this firm are not proper Brooks retailers and he does not know where they get their Brooks saddles from. He assured me, from the photos I had sent, that my saddle is a genuine Brooks. He advised me that some people have had problems with Bike-discount.de. I've only done the one order from them and it was just like ordering from CRC or Wiggle really.
In short, my expectations of a Brooks saddle were false. I expected every rivet to be dressed just below the leather so no edge of the rivet head is protruding. The Brooks saddle is an individual item that may or may not snag your shorts, but should be long lasting and comfy.
I will keep my saddle, Bike-discount.de do offer free returns, but I will dress the rivets myself and see if is as comfy as many users say.0 -
I would send it back. All the reviews I have read about Brooks saddles have been good and I've never read anything about rivets sticking up. The description of the Brooks Swift says the rivets are hammered in by hand, and all the images I have seen show the rivets really flush in the leather, much more so than even the B17, and I've not even read any complaints about the B17.
I think to be told that Brooks saddles are not ideal for modern lycra cycling shorts seems incredible. What do they expect us to wear?0 -
Bike-discount are as good as the GB based retailers you mention. I've had a similar conversation with a UK shop about Bike24 but it's just because the current exchange rate makes some things much cheaper from the Euro zone and they can't/don't want to compete. Brooks will be protecting their official UK dealer network but it's nonsense really.
You really should send it back as it's not what you want or need. It doesn't matter if it's a bargain if it's not right, like buying a jacket a size too small because it's in the sales.0 -
I've had a Brooks B17 special for maybe 5 years. The lovely big hand-beaten copper rivets were all perfectly flush on mine, and still are. Old leather armchair all-day comfy out of the box for me
Think if I'd bought a less than perfect one from Germany I'd take the practical option and do a bit of hammering myself. I did always come first in metalwork at school mind..0 -
I've never bothered with a Brooks yet - and my choice seems reinforced. Modern saddles are cheaper lighter and for me - comfy. No hassle with rivets either.0
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Statement direct from Brooks:
"These rivets are all hand hammered and checked in the factory - but leather is a natural material and the shape may change following packaging. It is very simple to gently hammer these rivets yourself at home. In fact the reason for the copper rivets is to give the user greater ability to maintain their own saddle."
Thus, the saddle was fine when it left the factory!
It would be useful to potential new buyers like myself for Brooks to make clear on their website that prior to fitting a new saddle to your bike you may need to dress the copper rivet heads yourself.
All in all, my dealings with Brooks have left me not wanting to own any Brooks product.
Philosophically: you learn by experience!0 -
Altogether an unusual thread.
Brooks saddles command a good position in the marketplace - and have done for many decades.
One never hears a bad word about the product.
I find no fault with Brooks here. Happily for them, they can do without the future custom of someone who doesn't understand their product. They have thousands of loyal customers and would make many more sales if their product didn't wear as well as it does.
Think carefully before going to a German online discounter to buy a slightly left-field piece of kit.0 -
Think carefully before going to a German online discounter to buy a slightly left-field piece of kit.
This was exactly the point I raised with Brooks: Have I bought a "left-field piece of kit"?
The response from Brooks was unequivocally, NO! - the rivets protrude because the leather has "moved" during its time from factory to buyer (read carefully the Brooks response two posts ago!) - this has been the same response from three different Brooks employees including senior manager, Mr Williamson.
Yes, I did not understand the product I was buying. I genuinely thought all the rivet heads would be flush with or sat a tad below the leather EXACTLY as in the pictures Brooks have on their website. I genuinely did not realise that as a buyer, I would have to dress the rivets on a brand new saddle.
I'm trying to think of a good analogy, but: "it's like buying a new bike and having to fit your own pedals!" doesn't really work!0 -
It's like buying a new bike and having to tighten the bottom bracket: a job not everyone will have the appropriate tools and/or expertise for, but without which the item will not function correctly.I'm trying to think of a good analogy, but: "it's like buying a new bike and having to fit your own pedals!" doesn't really work!0 -
It's like buying a new bike and having to tighten the bottom bracket: a job not everyone will have the appropriate tools and/or expertise for, but without which the item will not function correctly.I'm trying to think of a good analogy, but: "it's like buying a new bike and having to fit your own pedals!" doesn't really work!
Yes, I think you've hit the nail on the head there!0 -
Surely a rivet on the head0
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Saddles made of modern materials and construction methods are available in a massive range of styles and sizes!Hills do make I sweat a lot0
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Saddles made of modern materials and construction methods are available in a massive range of styles and sizes!
Due to hip arthritis I couldn't get comfy on anything else other than a brooks. I love my brooks imperial.
I have to say I think Brooks customer service is lacking for the O/P in this thread. The bit about lycra shorts is a nonsense to me, and if you are require to 'tap your rivets' should this not be stated in the care manual along with tension, proof ride, lacing etc ?0 -
Tapping your own rivets? What a load of tosh! Does it come with instructions and if so does it tell you to tap the rivets down yourself?0
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Tapping your own rivets? What a load of tosh! Does it come with instructions and if so does it tell you to tap the rivets down yourself?
Is there an equivalent to torque settings when tapping your own rivets.
Tap the rivet with a force equal to 2.67Kn +/- 0.5kN. Do not tap more than 6 times.0 -
At the end of the day though, they have supplied a great product, and as with anything in leather, care and proper set up is crucial to keeping it going well. That said, if they didn't include information on this in their manual they are slacking.0
