Scott Foil 2016 or Pinarello F8 2016 ?

Alzok
Alzok Posts: 4
edited December 2015 in Road buying advice
Hello;
Following a fall with my Pinarello Dogma with my 65.1 I need to change my framework.

I had a long hesitation, and my choice stops between these two frameworks:

Scott Foil, 2016 (the high-end framework)
http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/article/scott-launches-revamped-foil-44613/016

Pinarello F8, 2016 (the look and the basic framework change compared to 2015 )

http://www.pinarello.com/en/bike-2016/road/dogma-f8-tdf2015/867-rhino-team-sky



Prices are similar to the frame (4000e), but with different advantages. Having not been able to test these bikes I really do not know how to choose.

So I need your help, you have a preference for one or the other? Or even another bike (aero 2016)?
If someone has the F8 (even in 2015) I would also be interested by returns.


Sportingly.

Comments

  • Grill
    Grill Posts: 5,610
    Jesus, neither. For that cash get Sarto or Legend to make you something.

    If I had to choose I'd go for the Foil as it's likely to be more aero, lighter and I wouldn't feeling like a douche for riding one.
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • vinnymarsden
    vinnymarsden Posts: 560
    For me the thing would be…if I absolutely ADORED the Pinarello that got damaged then I would go for the Pin, however, if you fancy a change then the Scott is a nice bike..I have a 2014 Foil…very quick..and also surprisingly comfortable…after the reviews said not!!

    If I was in your boots..with what appears to be a decent wedge to spend…I would go for aParlee frame or something more custom… something that was a little more individual..I have to agree with previous poster..Pinarello's have been railroaded by the Saturday coffee drinking accountant brigade..only my opinion of course!!
    Whatever you choose make sure you don't skimp to save a few quid… it is ALWAYS false economy!!! :D:D
    My wife FINALLY understands that concept …now!!!
  • IrishMac
    IrishMac Posts: 328
    [url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19691711#p19691711]Grill[/url] wrote:
    Jesus, neither. For that cash get Sarto or Legend to make you something.

    If I had to choose I'd go for the Foil as it's likely to be more aero, lighter and I wouldn't feeling like a douche for riding one.

    I love your bike recommendations Grill, completely agree every time. :D
    Member of Cuchulainn C.C. @badcyclist

    Raleigh SP Race
    Trek 1.2
  • ckspark
    ckspark Posts: 16
    I'm trying to make the same decision based on which might have the best aero performance. I already own a Dogma 65.1 which is a nice enough bike but nothing special in my opinion. I also have a 2nd gen Addict 10 which is fantastic and my prefered bike but not particularly aero.
    My choice would be the most between 2016 Foil 20 bike or Dogma F8 frameset. I know the HMX Foil team is more comparable with the F8 but I think the HMF is worth the small weight penalty for the better value. Scott have published that the 2016 Foil has 224watts of drag at 45km. But for all the Pinarello marketing info i have seen total watts are never mentioned only percentages over the 65.1.
  • Grill
    Grill Posts: 5,610
    That is just silly. The F8 frameset has an RRP of £1200 more than the complete Foil 20 and yet you're comparing them? Apples to oranges much...

    If you want aero data from Pinarello, you won't get it. The Bolide and MAAT 60.1 are both basically five figure framesets and there are no published numbers for those to justify the cost. Besides, any numbers that you did manage to got from the F8 wouldn't be comparable to the Foil unless the test protocol and tunnel were identical. The only good reason to buy an F8 is because you want one. Trying to justify it beyond that is a fool's errand.
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • letap73
    letap73 Posts: 1,608
    [url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19757636#p19757636]Grill[/url] wrote:
    That is just silly. The F8 frameset has an RRP of £1200 more than the complete Foil 20 and yet you're comparing them? Apples to oranges much...

    If you want aero data from Pinarello, you won't get it. The Bolide and MAAT 60.1 are both basically five figure framesets and there are no published numbers for those to justify the cost. Besides, any numbers that you did manage to got from the F8 wouldn't be comparable to the Foil unless the test protocol and tunnel were identical. The only good reason to buy an F8 is because you want one. Trying to justify it beyond that is a fool's errand.

    In a nut shell I think Grill is correct, for the ordinary rider the performance difference, given that both bikes fit well, would probably be negligable on an average ride.
  • ckspark
    ckspark Posts: 16
    If I choose a F8 frameset I would built it with Ultegra and use my current carbon wheels and finishing kit on either bike to create a similar build. So is it Silly to compare the aero attributes of these two frames despite the price difference?
    The Foil 20 is made in the same mould as the top of the range foil premium so the frame profiles are identical but with cheaper, slightly heavier and less stiff HMF carbon. I prefer the team IAM colour of the foil 20 over the identical 10 and I don't believe the team issue represents value for money as I would be replacing the wheels and would not normally choose Dura ace.
    I'm maxed out on my Dogma 65.1 and Addict which is why I'm looking at a more aero frame.
  • Grill
    Grill Posts: 5,610
    It's silly to think you'll get any sort of tangible benefit from an aero road frame. Buy a skinsuit instead (or upgrade your wheels). And yes, it's still silly to compare the two as even were the F8 faster over the yaw angles you'll be riding (and that's a stretch), the ROI of £ to W saved is beyond laughable. If you want to go fast start time trialling.
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • ckspark
    ckspark Posts: 16
    Grill this post was started by Alzok who wants advice with choice between these two bikes as do I. Do you actually have any experience of either of these two bikes? Because so far all you have given are outrageous non related remarks and assumptions. We have heard your off topic personal opinions now so give it a rest and jog on.
  • Grill
    Grill Posts: 5,610
    Outrageous remarks and assumptions? Where? My logic is sound. If anything you're just salty that I'm taking my fiduciary responsibility seriously by pointing out the only reason to buy an F8 is because you want one.
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • defride
    defride Posts: 277
    [url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19757774#p19757774]Grill[/url] wrote:
    It's silly to think you'll get any sort of tangible benefit from an aero road frame. Buy a skinsuit instead (or upgrade your wheels). And yes, it's still silly to compare the two as even were the F8 faster over the yaw angles you'll be riding (and that's a stretch). If you want to go fast start time trialling.

    That's good advice.

    The rest of the outpouring over the F8 is nonsensical and sounds as if it's based on prejudice alone.

    If there's one thing Pina are doing it's research and they do publish some unlike most manufacturers who jump on the latest bandwagon paying lip service to R&D for the benefit of their marketing dept's rather than anything useful. The interesting stuff (to me) is the work they've done into the asymmetry of power delivery through the frame. The layup of the frame is done based on this work and it's quite different from the vast majority of other manufacturers. I've not ridden an F8 but I don't think I've seen a bad report from owners and reviewers.

    Whether that's enough to justify the high price is in the eye of the beholder.

    Lovely frame none the less

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