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Tubular tyres

Adammd209Adammd209 Posts: 37
edited August 2015 in Road buying advice
Morning All,

I'm after a bit of advice on tubular tyres. I've decided to give Tubulars a go and was wondering if anyone can recommend a tyre for general road riding (club runs etc). It's not going to be a wheel set that's used all the time, maybe once a week, but I do want something that's going to stand up to some slightly unpredictable surfaces. They are going on a 404 rear and a 303 front.

Also, I'm currently running Schwalbe one clinchers at the min and love them, are the Tubular versions as good?

Adam

Posts

  • Also what size would you recommend? Running 25's at the min
  • sungodsungod Posts: 14,346
    i use veloflex, carbon 23/arenberg 25, nice tyres, straightforward to repair

    but they do not have uch puncture resistance, just rubber and cotton, so not ideal for iffy roads

    conti tyres will probably be tougher though not as supple, conti competition are available in 25
    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
  • Veloflex Carbon user and a Zipp 303 FC rider too. On fair to good roads they can last a whole season (I'm still using the front from March 2014) and they're pretty much as good as it gets for us mortals. But I reckon if you're looking for the benefits of riding tubs but you're worried about dodgy road surfaces go for the latest Vittoria Pave in a 25.
  • jgsijgsi Posts: 5,038
    The Schwalbe Ones in tub are good for me.. two races... two good finishes.. (have been let down by Vittoria punctures this season) . they different are to the clincher types which I also use on my Zeroes.
  • Whereas two of my mates have binned their One's this year after getting flats and moved to 25 Vittoria Corsas.
  • TurboTommyTurboTommy Posts: 493
    im using conti competitions. Approx 2000 miles and one puncture for what that's worth. I like them but I think the general consensus is conti tubs are a bit more of a struggle to get on than other brands. If you do choose conti's I'd strongly recommend making sure they're nicely stretched out before trying to mount them.
    Cannondale caad7 ultegra
    S-works Tarmac sl5 etap
    Colnago c64 etap wifli
    Brother Swift
  • Some good advice here. So are the Schwalbe one clinchers totally different animals to the Tubulars, the obvious aside? I've got about 1000 miles in my one's and they don't appear to have any cuts etc on them.
  • 964cup964cup Posts: 1,362
    Can't speak for the clinchers, but I'm moving all my summer bikes to Schwalbe One tubs (24mm) as and when whatever's on them wears out. Winter bikes use Vittoria Pave 25c. I've got Challenge Strada 25c on my "classic" bike; no problems with those so far, including commuting, but they come up more like a 23c. I've not found any need to pre-stretch Ones before fitting, which is nice, and their base-tape is a thing of beauty.

    As an aside, they also hold air astonishingly well. Most of my other tubs are flat within a couple of days; I left my best bike, fitted with Ones, on the rack for a month after the RLS and when I got back it still had 80PSI (it would have started with 130). That means much more consistency in pressure over long rides, and easier storage if you use the kind of racks that benefit from pressure in the tyres.
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    I am also a conti tub user. Currently have the comps but I only use them in wet weather and on iffy roads which limits the life of the tyre. then again I find any tyre's life is quite limited used that way.

    It is possible to mount a conti tub without stretching it. Did it twice this week. Stretching helps a bit but not much.

    Vittoria corsa tubs are wonderful just like the clincher but they cut and puncture in the wet on iffy roads a bit too easily. Pave tubs are excellent in the wet the grip on these is very reassuring.

    Never tried the schwable one tubs as the distributors never have any.

    Overall for training purpose I think Conti comps or even the gator skin tub for winter use are the best all rounder. I will be switching to the gatorskin tubs in winter as wrecking competition tubs can get expensive (I ride iffy roads with alarming regularlity). The gatorsking tubs are nothing like the clinchers they ride and hold the road far better.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • As an aside, they also hold air astonishingly well. Most of my other tubs are flat within a couple of days; I left my best bike, fitted with Ones, on the rack for a month after the RLS and when I got back it still had 80PSI

    That's because Conti don't use latex inners like Vittoria, Veloflex, Challenge etc - which IMO kind of defeats some of the purpose of riding tubs, especially one with a high TPI.
  • bernithebikerbernithebiker Posts: 4,148
    I mostly use Veloflex Carbons and Vittoria CX's in 23, both excellent, although I did buy 2 new Carbons 2nd hand recently that didn't really hold air properly - a porous inner tube. (Fine bubbles could be seen coming out of the sidewall when held under water).

    I got a good deal on a Vittoria Crono 24 recently. I put it on the front. Really great tyre - light and very supple - I can normally ride 80psi fine, but not with this tyre, the sidewalls are too soft and squidge around when 'en danseuse'. So 100psi min. But rolls great and soaks up the bumps a treat. I guess it's a bit more fragile, but 2000km so far and fine.
  • 964cup964cup Posts: 1,362
    As an aside, they also hold air astonishingly well. Most of my other tubs are flat within a couple of days; I left my best bike, fitted with Ones, on the rack for a month after the RLS and when I got back it still had 80PSI

    That's because Conti don't use latex inners like Vittoria, Veloflex, Challenge etc - which IMO kind of defeats some of the purpose of riding tubs, especially one with a high TPI.

    Not Conti. Schwalbe. Can't find confirmation of the construction being butyl rather than latex, although it's certainly got some weight gain over, e.g., the Ultremo HTs I was using before. Not sure I see the benefits of latex apart from weight, though. You don't get the rolling resistance losses of a clincher, because the "tube" doesn't move against the "tyre" in a tub. Certainly the tests I could find (e.g. http://bikeblather.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/schwalbe-ironman-tires-clincher.html) seemed to indicate that it rolls pretty well, and that's borne out subjectively. I can live with an extra 50g per tyre on a 6kg bike in return for being able to start long rides at lower pressures - go out all day on traditional tubs and if you start at 110, you can end up coming home under 80, which is pretty squidge-tastic. Hence my habit, slowly being broken, of starting at 130+.
  • bernithebikerbernithebiker Posts: 4,148
    As an aside, they also hold air astonishingly well. Most of my other tubs are flat within a couple of days; I left my best bike, fitted with Ones, on the rack for a month after the RLS and when I got back it still had 80PSI

    That's because Conti don't use latex inners like Vittoria, Veloflex, Challenge etc - which IMO kind of defeats some of the purpose of riding tubs, especially one with a high TPI.

    Not Conti. Schwalbe. Can't find confirmation of the construction being butyl rather than latex, although it's certainly got some weight gain over, e.g., the Ultremo HTs I was using before. Not sure I see the benefits of latex apart from weight, though. You don't get the rolling resistance losses of a clincher, because the "tube" doesn't move against the "tyre" in a tub. Certainly the tests I could find (e.g. http://bikeblather.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/schwalbe-ironman-tires-clincher.html) seemed to indicate that it rolls pretty well, and that's borne out subjectively. I can live with an extra 50g per tyre on a 6kg bike in return for being able to start long rides at lower pressures - go out all day on traditional tubs and if you start at 110, you can end up coming home under 80, which is pretty squidge-tastic. Hence my habit, slowly being broken, of starting at 130+.

    As far as I know (and I cut a knackered tub open recently to have a look) the tube IS free to move inside the tyre as it's only connected to the tyre at the valve (as a clincher is).

    A 30psi loss in the course of a ride is quite a bit; I pump up to 100psi for a ride, and can usually ride the next day at 80/90psi no problem. I then pump back up to 100 the following day.
  • As an aside, they also hold air astonishingly well. Most of my other tubs are flat within a couple of days; I left my best bike, fitted with Ones, on the rack for a month after the RLS and when I got back it still had 80PSI

    That's because Conti don't use latex inners like Vittoria, Veloflex, Challenge etc - which IMO kind of defeats some of the purpose of riding tubs, especially one with a high TPI.

    Not Conti. Schwalbe.

    LOL - thinking Conti when I meant to type Schwalbe! :-)

    I'f they're holding pressure for that long then they've got to have butyl inners. Latex inners - in a tub or a clincher - will leak air.
  • 964cup964cup Posts: 1,362
    As an aside, they also hold air astonishingly well. Most of my other tubs are flat within a couple of days; I left my best bike, fitted with Ones, on the rack for a month after the RLS and when I got back it still had 80PSI

    That's because Conti don't use latex inners like Vittoria, Veloflex, Challenge etc - which IMO kind of defeats some of the purpose of riding tubs, especially one with a high TPI.

    Not Conti. Schwalbe.

    LOL - thinking Conti when I meant to type Schwalbe! :-)

    I'f they're holding pressure for that long then they've got to have butyl inners. Latex inners - in a tub or a clincher - will leak air.
    I agree; although I wonder whether they've done something like Tufo, who don't have an inner at all as I understand it. I'm not cutting one open to find out! (I will when one's worn, or otherwise knackered). I think the point with tubs is not that the inner is bonded to the shell, but that the shell and inner move as one, whereas in a clincher the tyre and tube can move independently. The advantage (apart from weight) in using latex tubes in clinchers (along with lots of talc) is that a latex tube will produce less friction, hence less rolling resistance; presumably this is both because the latex is much more flexible and because it has lower mu.
  • TurboTommyTurboTommy Posts: 493

    It is possible to mount a conti tub without stretching it. Did it twice this week. Stretching helps a bit but not much.

    You must have much stronger thumbs / better technique than me!

    The first two I mounted I struggled like crazy. Next time I soaked the tub in water for a few mins, then mounted it on an old rim and pumped it up to around 160psi and left it over night. I also mounted it on an old rim after the 1st coat of glue had dried. I found when it came to actually installing it the process was very much easier.

    Op I'm relatively new to the world of tubs myself and I think the best advice I could give would be to try a few different brands and models before settling on your preference, obv factoring in what type of riding you're doing. I'm very tempted to try vittorias next just because they seem very good, and it's quite fun to learn through trial and error in any case!
    Cannondale caad7 ultegra
    S-works Tarmac sl5 etap
    Colnago c64 etap wifli
    Brother Swift
  • mrb123mrb123 Posts: 3,724
    So the consensus of opinion is to make sure it's nicely stretched before mounting?
  • bernithebikerbernithebiker Posts: 4,148
    So the consensus of opinion is to make sure it's nicely stretched before mounting?

    I've never pre-stretched mine, I find they mount fine, if you stretch them hard as you put them on.

    My technique is twin handed pull down on both sides, hard, having started at the valve.
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    Vittoria tubs don't even need stretching to mount them. Ride quality is not the only reason for tubs. They don't pinch flat, they don't blow out, the grip seems to be better. Also conti tubs puncture less often and are rounder than vittoria for example. There is a trade off using conti tubs rolling resistance is probably a few watts higher at speed but as with all things tyres you have to choose your trade of f's. This last week I have not dare ride my vittoria corsa's to much flint everywhere mixed with water.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • Think i'm gonna order some conti GP4000's from Tedz, They have a £15 off voucher if you spend £100 or more. I Think this may make them cheaper than anywhere else.
  • StillGoingStillGoing Posts: 5,207
    edited August 2015
    Cheap is not necessarily better. The experience of using tubs all year round instead of clinchers can be easily spoiled if you're experiencing punctures. Carrying spare tubes rather than a spare tub and the ability to repair at the roadside with clinchers will soon look preferential again if you get flats with your tubs.

    Buy the best you can warding off the chances of tub punctures as best you can. I've used Conti Sprinters that never went flat by not having a latex inner, but they were heavy. Never had a problem mounting them on the rims though. I then tried Veloflex Extreme's in 23mm, but with 2 front blowouts in quick succession (submerged potholes for one and a crash causing the other) I took the opportunity to move to Veloflex Arenburgs in 25mm. They seem to be bullet proof, even on graveled roads and much more comfortable. The Vittoria Open Paves also have good reports for puncture resistance and durability.
    I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    Pit stop worked for me on sunday at fixing a flat did another 90 miles without incident. the tub is a conti competition. GP4000 tubs are an excellent choice. enjoy.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • tim_wandtim_wand Posts: 2,552
    Okay after about a month of Crapping it on club runs , running with Vittoria Corsa tubs and just a can of pit stop in my jersey ( No flats touch wood ) I ve now ordered a spare tub to carry .

    Whats the best way to prepare the spare. The current Tubs are taped on and I am seriously considering having these taken off and Glued on ( Felt the rear roll on me once/ but other wise okay)

    So my questions are, If I don't have the current tubs glued on and just go with the tape until they need replacing.

    Can I prep the spare with Glue or can I use the Tub tape I have and just remove one side of the backing and leave the otherside on?

    I take it if I pre glued the spare the excess from the tape on the rim would adhere to this when I fitted the new tub?

    If my wheels (my only tubular set ) already have tubs fitted, can I prestretch the spare on a Clincher rim or will this knacker it on the rims bead?

    Sorry but really am new to this Tubs business, it was an itch I needed to scratch, So far loving it but dreading the inevitable flat. Just want to be prepared so I don't have to make the call of Shame!
  • bernithebikerbernithebiker Posts: 4,148
    Okay after about a month of Crapping it on club runs , running with Vittoria Corsa tubs and just a can of pit stop in my jersey ( No flats touch wood ) I ve now ordered a spare tub to carry .

    Whats the best way to prepare the spare. The current Tubs are taped on and I am seriously considering having these taken off and Glued on ( Felt the rear roll on me once/ but other wise okay)

    So my questions are, If I don't have the current tubs glued on and just go with the tape until they need replacing.

    Can I prep the spare with Glue or can I use the Tub tape I have and just remove one side of the backing and leave the otherside on?

    I take it if I pre glued the spare the excess from the tape on the rim would adhere to this when I fitted the new tub?

    If my wheels (my only tubular set ) already have tubs fitted, can I prestretch the spare on a Clincher rim or will this knacker it on the rims bead?

    Sorry but really am new to this Tubs business, it was an itch I needed to scratch, So far loving it but dreading the inevitable flat. Just want to be prepared so I don't have to make the call of Shame!

    Even without any glue on either the rim or the tub, the tyre stays in place pretty well, certainly enough to get you home if you're careful.

    I don't bother carrying one, unless I'm on a real mission. Just a can of PitStop (I use Decathlon ones at 3 euros a pop), which will fix most small punctures, and then phone call home if not.
  • 964cup964cup Posts: 1,362
    I use an Arundel Tubi bag (http://www.tredz.co.uk/.Arundel-Tubi-Seat-Bag_51932.htm). A lightweight tub (Ultremo HT, Tufo Jet etc) packs in nicely, with space for a couple of gas cans, a mini pump, a minitool and a tyre lever. I've had to change tubs at the roadside twice in the last two months, without which I would have needed a taxi, so it's worth it. With practice, changing tubs can be faster than changing clinchers. If you use Jantex 14 tape, the tape stays on the rim; if you use Jantex 76, it stays on the base tape of the tub, so you'll need to pretape the spare.
  • StillGoingStillGoing Posts: 5,207
    Okay after about a month of Crapping it on club runs , running with Vittoria Corsa tubs and just a can of pit stop in my jersey ( No flats touch wood ) I ve now ordered a spare tub to carry .

    Whats the best way to prepare the spare. The current Tubs are taped on and I am seriously considering having these taken off and Glued on ( Felt the rear roll on me once/ but other wise okay)

    So my questions are, If I don't have the current tubs glued on and just go with the tape until they need replacing.

    Can I prep the spare with Glue or can I use the Tub tape I have and just remove one side of the backing and leave the otherside on?

    I take it if I pre glued the spare the excess from the tape on the rim would adhere to this when I fitted the new tub?

    If my wheels (my only tubular set ) already have tubs fitted, can I prestretch the spare on a Clincher rim or will this knacker it on the rims bead?

    Sorry but really am new to this Tubs business, it was an itch I needed to scratch, So far loving it but dreading the inevitable flat. Just want to be prepared so I don't have to make the call of Shame!

    Tufo pre-glued following recommendation by Sungod on here.
    I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.
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