Where and where not to use loctite

buddy_club

As above, doing a bike build - is there anywhere that should and anywhere that shouldn't have loctite?

Chunkers1980

I don't have it anywhere.

The Rookie

Depends on what the bolt is doing and what loctite you use!

I use a small amount on the cones and locknuts on one side of a cup and cone hub as an assembly aid, I use it on my suspension pivots bolts as it's specified by the manufacturer (with a low torque to reduce friction on the bushes), that's about it, on older caliper bolts where the stock threadlock has disappeared I use a small drop.

buddy_club

Got blue medium loctite - was just gonna put it on any bolts that seem at risk of coming loose, also got some marine grease for general part installation.

swod1

I just use it on chainring bolts, the blue 243 stuff medium strength.

I've not found the need to use it on other bolts.

But as your building a new bike a lot of the bolts will already come with it on.

FishFish

Agree with swod1 but include the brake caliper bolts too. And on your wallet if you are as stingy as my mate Bob from Knutsford.

Monty Dog

Blind holes or where there is no other means of securing the fastener, particularly on safety-critical parts like brakes or drivetrain. Brake disc bolts are a good example, as are pinch bolts on cranks.

Dirtydog11

Wouldn't use 243 on m5 bolts, breakaway force is around 20nm iirc.

The Rookie

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19690480#p19690480]Monty Dog[/url] wrote:

Blind holes or where there is no other means of securing the fastener, particularly on safety-critical parts like brakes or drivetrain. Brake disc bolts are a good example, as are pinch bolts on cranks.

Most bolts are quite adequately retained by the clamp force......no point adding loctite if that is going to work just fine.

Herdwick

Some people have the tendency to overtighten bolts on the thought will hold better but all you do is to stretch and weaken the bolt (often destroying the bolt head and making it impossible to undone it later) also small size bolts tend to get loose because of flex between parts like chain ring bolts and disc brake bolts. A drop of medium strength threadlock will keep your bolts head in shape and parts in place

The Rookie

Chainring bolts are small size? pointless adding loctite, a properly done up one won't come loose.

mmacavity

According to Pinarello:

http://www.eriksbikeshop.com/assets/images/promo/PDF/OwnersManuals/PinarelloENGLISHweb.pdf

THREADS, THREAD-LOCKERS, GREASE AND TIGHTENING TORQUES
One of the most debated issues is the coupling of threaded parts; in particular it is debated if threads should be a) degreased or b) lubricated or c) treated with thread-lockers, and what is the proper torque to be applied in each of these cases.
In line of principle, we expect threaded couplings to remain stable/tight over time with no loosening, we expect that they can be taken apart when necessary, we expect that they do not generate noises due to micro-movements of the parts, we expect them not to develop corrosion.
Corrosion, that can be a big problem because it can seize or damage threads, it is frequent between different metals (titanium-aluminum, steel-aluminum). In the past there were no alternatives and grease was used in the threads, to fulfill all four needs. But grease facilitates loosening, does not last forever, migrates, changes characteristics, is washed away, does not always offer sufficient corrosion protection, and reduces noises only temporarily.
Thread-lockers have been used for many years in mechanics. What is a thread-locker?
It is a liquid that is applied on the threads during installation and solidifies in the following hours. It is available in many “strengths”, but for the bike it is preferable to use the weak one, Loctite® 222 or Arexons® System 52A22. Thread-lockers offer numerous benefits when used
on threaded couplings: 1) prevent undesired loosening without the need to use high tightening torques, 2) prevent corrosion in the interface,
3) prevent any micro-movement with associated noises, 4) they remain stable over time.
Thread-lockers solidify when air is absent, therefore the entire space between the threads must be filled with product, otherwise, if not enough product is used, it will remain liquid.
Using a thread-locker stronger than recommended can seize the threads, especially bigger diameter threads.
Using the proper tightening torques it’s essential for correct function and to avoid loosening or structural damages. In certain cases tightening torques ensure mechanical couplings, in other cases they prevent loosening. You authorized dealer will use, in certain applications, the thread-locker and eventually apply a lower torque. Tightening torques are different if the thread is lubricated,
treated with thread-lockers or degreased. Most torques are specified by component manufacturers and appear in their instructions, but carbon frames require special care during assembly and maintenance. To lubricate threads never use lithium based greases.
Your dealer has all the torque wrenches required to tighten bolts in the range from 1.5Nm to 50Nm.
We recommend the following tightening torques:
Rear Derailleur fixing bolt – 12 Nm (lubricated thread) – Loctite® 222/Arexons® 52A22 can be used, torque reduced to 8 Nm.
Front Derailleur clamp bolt – on CARBON FRAMES: 1.5-2 Nm (lubricated thread) – Most Safe™ assembly compound can be used on
internal clamp surface – on METAL FRAMES: see FD manufacturer’s instructions.
Front Brake socket head nut – 7 Nm (lubricated thread) – Loctite® 222/Arexons® 52A22 can be used if the nut has a Torx® socket or if it is
made of steel, torque reduced to 5 Nm.
Rear Brake socket head nut – 6 Nm (lubricated thread) – Loctite® 222/Arexons® 52A22 can be used if the nut has a Torx® socket or if it is
made of steel, torque reduced to 5 Nm.
Bottom Bracket cups – EXTERNAL BEARING TYPE should be hand tight (as tight as you can using your bare hands) with Loctite® 222/
Arexons® 52A22 (if thread-locker is not available, the cups should be tightened 35-40 Nm) - ISO SQUARE TYPE must be hand tight, using
Loctite® 222/Arexons® 52A22.
Seatpost fixing clamp – Most Safe™ assembly compound should be always used – CARBON SEATPOSTS 3 Nm (Most Safe™, lubricated
thread), 4 Nm (lubricated thread), 6 Nm (degreased thread) – ALUMINUM SEATPOST 6 Nm max.
Seatpost Saddle Rail clamping bolts – TAIL C-MAX™ 1K or 3K front bolt 4 Nm/rear bolt 8 Nm (lubricated threads) – TAIL C-ALU™ 12 Nm
(lubricated threads).
Stem: fork tube fixing bolts – Most Safe™ assembly compound should be used – CARBON FORK TUBE 5 Nm (lubricated threads) – ALUMINUM
FORK TUBE 10 Nm (lubricated threads).
Stem: handlebar fixing bolts – Most Safe™ assembly compound should be used – CARBON HANDLEBAR 4 Nm (lubricated threads) – ALUMINUM
HANDLEBAR 8 Nm (lubricated threads).
Anchor Plug inside fork tube – 7 Nm (lubricated threads).
Cap on top of fork tube – 2 Nm (lubricated threads).
Integrated Shift/brake levers handlebar clamping bolt – CARBON HANDLEBAR 6 Nm (lubricated thread) – ALUMINUM HANDLEBAR see
manufacturer’s instructions.
Bottle Cage fixing screws – Loctite® 222/Arexons® 52A22 must be used – 2 Nm.
Cable guide plate under BB – Loctite® 222/Arexons® 52A22 must be used – 2 Nm.

CAUTION! If the manufacturer’s recommended tightening torques are different from what we indicated, in case of carbon frames use the lower of the two. Please contact us or your authorized dealer for clarification.
CAUTION! In carbon frames the bottom bracket aluminum insert is bonded to the carbon structure. If the bottom bracket has a cup with no shoulder, Loctite® 222/Arexons® 52A22 must be used on the thread and the cup should be tightened by hand, to avoid damaging the insert. Moreover, if an aluminum cup is seized inside the insert (this can happen when Loctite® 222/Arexons® 52A22 is not used), do not use more than 80 Nm of torque when trying to unscrew the cup, and make sure you’re turning in the proper direction, to avoid de-bonding the insert which would destroy the frame.


Middleburn say:
http://www.middleburn.co.uk/images/pdf/chainset_assembly.pdf

But Pinkbike say
http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Tech-Tuesday-Thread-locker-Basics-2011.html


https://www.sram.com/sites/default/files/techdocs/my10-sram-tech-manual-rev-a.pdf

http://www.tech-mavic.com/tech-mavic/uk/sources/Produits/ROUTE/Roues/KsyriumElite/KsyEliteSpokeReplacement.pdf

http://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/035_40_Technical%20manual%20-%20Ultra%20Torque%20Power%20Torque%20bottom%20bracket%20cup%20-%20Campagnolo__Rev01_02_15.pdf

cooldad

TL/DR version, some roadies are anal.

The Rookie

Loctite in most of those is just pointless, and if you are a weight weenie adds weight, millions of bikes never have an issue without using loctite' just learn to torque things up properly.

Herdwick

The Rookie wrote:

Chainring bolts are small size? pointless adding loctite, a properly done up one won't come loose.

This falls to the "parts flexing category" which also causes bolts to get loose

The Rookie

Rarely if torqued correctly as you won't create enough 'flex' to overcome the bolt tension.

Herdwick

Bolts work just like a spring, by holding together the parts in tension, when you remove the parts involved or worn out AND tension is gone then the bolt no longer acts like a spring. The thing here is to keep the bolts secured no matter what, in a situation like the chainring/crank spider flex is unavoidable, the friction between the parts involved eventually will loosen up the tension created by the bolt and then it will work it self loose, using locktide will hold the threaded parts together even if the tension is gone, plus it protects from corrosion and the elements

The Rookie

Hogwash I'm afraid.

If a bolt can stay torqued up in an internal combustion engine the same system can cope with the feeble forces involved on a bike, do it up right and apart from a very few parts where the torque is artificially limited they won't come undone.

mmacavity

Makes you wonder why Loctite make threadlock, and why people use it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcK_uzF_EHg
http://www.henkelna.com/industrial/loctite-threadlockers-threadlocking-solutions-10615.htm

or safety wire fastners
http://emra.ca/Tech%20Tips/Tech%20Tips.htm

Chunkers1980

Overkill for bikes?

supersonic

I prefer to use a light lubricant or antisieze compound.

The Rookie

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19693573#p19693573]mmacavity[/url] wrote:

Makes you wonder why Loctite make threadlock, and why people use it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcK_uzF_EHg
http://www.henkelna.com/industrial/loctite-threadlockers-threadlocking-solutions-10615.htm

or safety wire fastners
http://emra.ca/Tech%20Tips/Tech%20Tips.htm

Well sometimes it is needed, but mostly not, which is why all those well respected bike and component manufacturers don't use anything in the vast majority of applications, I trust Shimano and SRAMs or Felt, Canyon etc opinions ahead of yours I think!

mmacavity

Fascinating

Going back to the original post, about where to use Loctite

What about Loctite 36781?

mmacavity

Loctite say:

http://us.henkel-adhesives-blog.com/post/Motorcycles/Six-Ways-to-Keep-Your-Mountain-Bike-Going-With-Loctite/

The Rookie

Shock horror, supplier advocates using their product, who would have guessed it!

And he carries loctite with him for trail side repairs despite using it in the workshop, so clearly he's either useless in a workshop, or loctite doesn't work, or it's a commercial.

drlodge

Just built up my WyndyMilla Massive Attack and didn't apply Loctite anywhere. The only place it did exist was on the BB cup threads as Campag pre-apply it, but I added a decent amount of grease to the threads after inserting/removing the cups a couple of times.

As many have said above, if done up properly tight things will not just come undone for no reason.

Clockworkmark31

Interesting minions.

Does adding the blue threadlock harm things? Or does it add an extra level of security?

My order is rotor bolts, caliper bolts and chainring bolts.

Agree with many responses on this, if you torque correct you don't need it.

But at the same time I disagree with everyone on a witch hunt. It adds a few grams of weight. Keeps bolts secured. I would guess it depends how you have learned engineering.

I know some people who request the minimum and some people who over engineer. Who is at fault?

dgunthor

rotor bolts for me.

my 2 stroke motorbike needed lots of it as bolts would routinely vibrate out and get lost :-(