Deore or Alivio

ferfred2

Hello all.

I'm quite surprised not to find the buying forum filled with Shimano's components battles. I searched all over the internet and pretty much all "Deore or Alivio" threads are pretty outdated.

Recently I had an accident and I broke several parts of my bike. My Acera groupset was really old and I was already thinking it was time for an improvement. So here is what my current budget can afford:
- Alivio m4050
- Deore m610

Both are hollowtech, both have 3 chainrings...

Are these two line of products really different? Is the current Deore that much more durable than the current Alivio? Is Alivio really just for commuting and utility? What is the real difference between the newest version of these two Shimano families?

Thanks!

Chunkers1980

Deore is proper mtb, so that

rockmonkeysc

Deore will be noticeably better and is the lowest I would buy.

cooldad

The new Alivio stuff is very good. Trickle down works.

I would probably aim for Deore but depending on budget, wouldn't rule Alivio out.

Chunkers1980

10 speed's not trickled down though. Yes some of your old stuff may be better suited compatibility wise with the Alivio but 10 spd will last longer down the line

ferfred2

I'm no athlete, that's the point. I will ride the bike 3 times a week on bumpy roads but no more than that. Is Alivio really for commuters only? If it is, why do many bike brands sell their stuff with alivio groupset? and what about the hollowtech crankset? I'm still really intrigued.

Chunkers1980

Cos they're cheapskates and aiming for a price point.

HTII is just an axel and external bb. Better in most cases.

supersonic

The alivio is excellent stuff. Deore is a touch lighter, 10 speed, and the brakes get servowave. Deore full groups can be as cheap anyway.

ferfred2

Well...

Nobody replied any of my questions, actually. This is what I come across: "alivio is great stuff", "alivio is bad", "deore is the least I'd buy". But for what reason?

I'm starting to have the feeling no one actually understands differences between components.

Anyone please?

supersonic

Deore is lighter and is 10 speed. That is the difference! You can look the weights up. There is no practical difference in durability, it is simply weight and gear options. And with the brakes, as stated, Servowave leverage vs standard.

ferfred2

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19688501#p19688501]supersonic[/url] wrote:

Deore is lighter and is 10 speed. That is the difference! You can look the weights up. There is no practical difference in durability, it is simply weight and gear options. And with the brakes, as stated, Servowave leverage vs standard.

Thanks!! That is what I was looking for.
So basically, if weight is not a problem and I already have the brakes, then I'd be after Deore for that extra gear? What about the 12x36 Alivio cassette option... isn't it a good alternative for the Deore's 10 speed 11x36 cassette?

Chunkers1980

No. As long as you can get a 36t big you're just cutting the range down by a lot by going 12t min.

supersonic

12x36 actually has less gear range than an 11-34 cassette (300% compared to 310%), so you can get more out of the latter with certain chainring choice. It is slight though - but the 11-34 is lighter. However the standard 4050 chainring choice is limited, so if you prefer a slightly lower gear at the expense of the the high end then a 12-36 would suit. You don't have to fit a 4050 chainset though - any 9 or 10 speed chainset will work fine up to a max of 44 tooth large chainring.

Deore and 11-36 (325% range) would get the best of both extremes. You can buy a 9 speed 11-34 and 12-36 and swap the cogs about to make a 9 speed 11-36... but some gear jumps may be excessive.

So is personal preference. Alivio 9 is basically the Deore 9 replacement, as two Deore sets were running concurrently for a while.

ferfred2

Really informative. Thanks! Let me ask two other things:

1- Regarding the gear range, even though 12x36 has a shorter one, I live in a part of my country where we have particularly steep climbs. Some 15-30% 8km long. I'd be using that granny a lot as I'm no pro. That's why the 36 cog looks more interesting. Does it make sense or it's still a lot less range to the point that it's still worth getting the 11x34

2- I'm trying not to, but I sort of remain skeptical regarding the fact that the 4050 Alivio is really the 9 speed Deore renamed. As I live in a country where salaries are low and prices go the other way, then choosing between Alivio and Deore is a big deal. Are Alivio components really reliable for MTB or the "this is for commuting only" that i hear from the local bike shop the real deal?

Thanks!

supersonic

If you use a smaller chainring set, you can maintain the low gear, and have the range. You need to work out or experiment with gearing.

It is not renamed per se, but Shimano have now dropped development of 9 speed Deore and is concentrating on the 10 speed side of it which is now better than the old 9 Deore construction wise. It was the top 9 speed group, now that is Alivio which is getting the trickle down tech from older 9 speed (and 10) groups. For example now has two way release, shadow rear mechs, hollowtech 2 cranks.

Alivio 4000 series is not a commuter only series - it is marketed as a tough 9 speed MTB groupset - just like Deore was.

ferfred2

Excellent. I got the point. After all I'm really going for the new Alivio set. Thanks!

The Rookie

The 12-36 is unbelievably heavy though.

I found a 22/34 almost unpedalable as the gearing is so low, I don't usually use lower than 22/28 so can see little benefit in having a 22/36 especially given how much extra weight it is!

ferfred2

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19688580#p19688580]The Rookie[/url] wrote:

The 12-36 is unbelievably heavy though.

I found a 22/34 almost unpedalable as the gearing is so low, I don't usually use lower than 22/28 so can see little benefit in having a 22/36 especially given how much extra weight it is!

Thanks! I got the 11-34. I come back to comment on my purchase in a few weeks.

ferfred2

I got the parts here. I am still surprised how amazing this set of pieces are, give its price. Here are my perspective:
- Hollowtech II is hollowtech II, I mean, the only thing you can improve from one set of Alivio to an SLX is weight, in my humble opinion. And by weight I mean a few grams
- You actually note the rear derailleur's shadow system difference from a non shadow derailleur. The chain stays where it should and..
- ...combined with the rapid fire plus shifters, shifting is impeccable. Never jumps and is really silent.

I mean, Alivio is not a "that's what I could afford" set. It's really a fantastic entry level set for MTB. I don't see how can I, with my current physical conditioning, note the difference between this and a Deore set. What a great set.

Briggo

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19688580#p19688580]The Rookie[/url] wrote:

The 12-36 is unbelievably heavy though.

I found a 22/34 almost unpedalable as the gearing is so low, I don't usually use lower than 22/28 so can see little benefit in having a 22/36 especially given how much extra weight it is!

Depends on the terrain and gradients you're riding.

22/36 is a bloody godsend on some hills round these parts.

The Rookie

I find I'm going so slow on 22/36 I can barely balance the bike, that said I was riding last night and there was a chap riding a 22/42 (yes 3 ring front and an expander at the back!)

ferfred2

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19694539#p19694539]Briggo[/url] wrote:

Depends on the terrain and gradients you're riding.

22/36 is a bloody godsend on some hills round these parts.

I see some hills here in my region, they are 8 to 15km long, offroad and max gradient 33%. Any extra help available is most welcome.