Hope Hoops, spokes keep slackening off
stubs
Posts: 5,001
I have a set of Hope Hoops 29er wheels, Pro2 hubs laced to Stans Arch EX rims. I bought them from CRC and when they arrived I thought the spoke tension was soft but I was assured thats how the Stans rims should be built up. Couple of rides and 3 spokes on back wheel were so loose the nipples could be turned with fingertips. Put it down to bedding in so got the spoke key out. 4 or 5 rides in same thing saggy spokes, took wheel to bikeshop another 4 or 5 rides same thing back in the shop 4 or 5 rides again. So I thought its the bike shop. Took the back wheel to a Pro wheelbuilder and he says he gets a fair few Hope Hoops in his shop as they are machine built and not tension relieved properly, he trued everything up. Another 5 rides and Duck me same thing happens again.
Any ideas what next I am thinking of feeding the back wheel into one of those car crushing machines. Doubt I can send it back now its been trued up so many times. Wish I had sent it straight back without using it when I spotted the spokes were so soft.
Any ideas what next I am thinking of feeding the back wheel into one of those car crushing machines. Doubt I can send it back now its been trued up so many times. Wish I had sent it straight back without using it when I spotted the spokes were so soft.
Fig rolls: proof that god loves cyclists and that she wants us to do another lap
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Comments
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Sounds like they need properly re-tensioning and stress relieving a few times.Transition Patrol - viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=130702350
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Sounds like they need properly re-tensioning and stress relieving a few times.
Thats what the LBS and the wheelbuilder both did or at least the wheel came back evenly tensioned and straight each time. I have stress relieved the wheel several times myself all I can think is the spokes are winding up but when stress releiving somehow they are not unwinding. The rim doesnt have eyelets and all the wheels I have ever built have been eyeletted usually Mavic rims so wondering if there is a special technique. :?Fig rolls: proof that god loves cyclists and that she wants us to do another lap0 -
Sounds simply as though they're not tensioned enough - retension, perhaps swap to ProLock nipples or Loctite?Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..0
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How old is the wheel?0
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Sounds simply as though they're not tensioned enough - retension, perhaps swap to ProLock nipples or Loctite?
Stans give maximum spoke tension for the rim of 125 KgF which means sod all to me as I dont have a tension gauge. Done a bit of research and it seems like best way to build up the rim is with the tyre all ready fitted with the tyre bead in the bead groove.
Going to give that a go I think undo all tension and start again only problem its a 29er and wont fit in my wheel jig with tyre on nor will I be able to check dish accurately :?Fig rolls: proof that god loves cyclists and that she wants us to do another lap0 -
How old is the wheel?
About 9 months but it has been played around with a lot I have tweaked it 3 times and others have had it in 4 times. Not sure if warranty will still cover it you can tell its been worked on as the black coating on the nipples is wearing away.
edit I might drop Hope a line they might want to have a look at it dont mind paying a fee just want a non wobbly wheel.Fig rolls: proof that god loves cyclists and that she wants us to do another lap0 -
I'd still contact CRC - not even warranty at this point, simple sale of goods.0
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I'd still contact CRC - not even warranty at this point, simple sale of goods.
I have emailed both Hope and CRC asking for advice on best course. I dont want to get shouty with them it is a well used wheel after all, maybe I am just too hefty for Stans and need to get a Mavic 729 rim or similar fitted.Fig rolls: proof that god loves cyclists and that she wants us to do another lap0 -
You don't need a Mavic 729. I found them too heavy and too stiff on my DH bike.
I have had Stans rims and found them to be fairly weak and soft. I much prefer Hope Enduro rims, Im using them on my DH and trail bike and they're bombproof.Transition Patrol - viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=130702350 -
90 KG and no issues with my home built Arches, my moneys on the spokes not being tight enough.
Find someone with a tension gauge.0 -
90 KG and no issues with my home built Arches, my moneys on the spokes not being tight enough.
Find someone with a tension gauge.
Last time the wheel was retensioned the wheelbuilder said the spoke tensions were done to the maximum specified by Stans 125 KgF. Personally I think its the spokes winding up and not releasing when the wheel is destressed.
I cant be bothered sending it back to CRC I am going to buy some new nipples and rebuild it myself. Been a while since I did a wheel but I dont think I have forgotten eveything but it might take a couple of practice goes
Fig rolls: proof that god loves cyclists and that she wants us to do another lap0 -
Destressing is not for getting rid of spoke twist.
Correct technique tightening spokes prevents spoke windup in the first place.
If your new wheel makes ping noises on it's first ride, you have a crap build.
Spoke line may never have been addressed in the initial build and you may need to pay attention to this and then destress after truing again.
To check the spoke line, look at the spokes where they leave the hub, the outer spokes should sit down on the flange for support and the inners spokes should similarly not be just curved but bent in the shortest line from hub to cross to rim.
Where the spokes leave the nipples at the rim, check to see that the spoke takes a distinct bend as it leaves the nipple and that the spoke does not travel in a curve.
The spokes should also track behind each other.
If you spin the wheel and look end on, you should not see spokes wavering in and out, they should all follow each other as they spin.
If the spokes line has not been seen to, the spokes will be loading and unloading in the elastic zone and fail early, some may correct their own line somewhat under heavy loads and lead to spoke loosening due to the spoke line now being shorter.
This is sort of like destressing on a macro scale, whereas proper destressing works at a grain level and can be achieved by squeezing spokes to increase tension momentarily after the spoke line has been addressed.
Unless you can see that the nipples are pulling through the rim, then the problem lies in the build.
A small chance that something as silly as 14 gauge nipples used for a 15 gauge build could also be what you are seeing.
15 will bite in a 14 but will jump a thread under high load.
If your wheel uses 15G, then to check, remove a nipple and try and screw in a 14G spoke, if it goes, the nipples are incorrect.0 -
Destressing is not for getting rid of spoke twist.
Correct technique tightening spokes prevents spoke windup in the first place.
If your new wheel makes ping noises on it's first ride, you have a crap build.
Spoke line may never have been addressed in the initial build and you may need to pay attention to this and then destress after truing again.
To check the spoke line, look at the spokes where they leave the hub, the outer spokes should sit down on the flange for support and the inners spokes should similarly not be just curved but bent in the shortest line from hub to cross to rim.
Where the spokes leave the nipples at the rim, check to see that the spoke takes a distinct bend as it leaves the nipple and that the spoke does not travel in a curve.
The spokes should also track behind each other.
If you spin the wheel and look end on, you should not see spokes wavering in and out, they should all follow each other as they spin.
If the spokes line has not been seen to, the spokes will be loading and unloading in the elastic zone and fail early, some may correct their own line somewhat under heavy loads and lead to spoke loosening due to the spoke line now being shorter.
This is sort of like destressing on a macro scale, whereas proper destressing works at a grain level and can be achieved by squeezing spokes to increase tension momentarily after the spoke line has been addressed.
Unless you can see that the nipples are pulling through the rim, then the problem lies in the build.
A small chance that something as silly as 14 gauge nipples used for a 15 gauge build could also be what you are seeing.
15 will bite in a 14 but will jump a thread under high load.
If your wheel uses 15G, then to check, remove a nipple and try and screw in a 14G spoke, if it goes, the nipples are incorrect.
Checked the spoke line against the diagram in Roger Mussons Wheelbuilding book and everything looks right. I have noticed the spokes seem a bit short with at least 1 whole thread showing above nipple almost as if 12mm were used when the spoke calculator said use 14mm. I am going to start again measure the ERD, spokes, nipples and Flanges and put figures in the DT spoke calculator, see what comes up.Fig rolls: proof that god loves cyclists and that she wants us to do another lap0 -
Have a look from the rim end at the spoke length, they should come just level with the end of the nipple.Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.0
