FD and FC compatibility

vlado

My bike needed some new parts so I decided to try new front derailleur, with new crankset and new bottom bracket. New front derailleur is FD T4000 TS3–top swing type and crankset is octalink FC M4000. According to shimano tech website both have 50mm chainline-crankset compatible with 118 mm bottom bracket to obtain 50mm chailine. Shimano website says for BB ES300 bottom bracket but I bought BB ES51. Finally it has arrived but to my disappointment it doesn’t work together. When using top chainring chain is seriously rubbing chain cage on front derailleur-it’s not only touching it little bit. My bike was originally with 47.5mm chailine.
My questions are:
1. Is it because I bought FD T4000 instead of FD M4000? – reason for that was I couldn’t find M4000 TS3 but only TS6.
2. Will I make it better if I will buy 113 mm bottom bracket? Will it work with 113 mm bottom bracket?– according to shimano website FC M4000 is compatible with 118mm. Buying 113 mm BB will shift crankset 2.5 mm closer to the frame creating 47.5 chainline but derailleur will stay the same (50mm chainline compatible).
3. Will be better option to buy 113 mm bottom bracket or FD M4000 TS6 instead of TS3?
4. Will TS6 derailleur work with frame made for TS3 derailleur?
Thanks for your help.

Chunkers1980

I think you may be lost?

cooldad

AFAIK it's all Alivio, so yes, a 5mm shorter BB axle will move the chainline 2.5mm. Just make sure that you have enough gap between the cranks and the chainstay, although I doubt it's tight enough that 2.5mm will be a problem.

cooldad

The mech is the trekking one though, so may not be a perfect angle for the chainring. Should work though.

The Rookie

Where is the chain rubbing the FD, is the cage on the stop so unable to move out the way?

vlado

It's rubbing derailleur's cage on largest chainring and I'm unable to move derailleur's cage more out. i'm thinking of buying shorter BB but am not sure if this will help - am not sure about gear shifting. reason why I bought Trekking series derailleur is I couldn't find Mountain series derailleur made for chainstay angle 63-66. that was the only one I found. what affect gear shifting more?difference between TS3 and TS6? or difference between T and M series???

The Rookie

Where is the chain rubbing the FD? inside, outside, top, bottom?

Why won't the FD move further out? High stop?

dgunthor

sounds like a narrower axle BB may sort it - as long as the inner chainring will still clear the chainstay of the frame?

The Rookie

Have you checked the toe in/out of the mech cage?

vlado

rubbing inside of the outer cage plate.will send photo.its in highest position. what is it toe in or toe out?

The Rookie

The cage should normally be parallel to the chain when viewed from above, if the front is closer to the bike centreline than the rear it is toe in and vice versa is toe out, if you have a bike with a 50mm chainline but normal 135mm rear you may need to run a small amount of toe out to compensate (by loosening the clamp and rotating the mech around the seat tube).

vlado

ok then. i tried to put FD as parallel to chainrings as possible.I think it will not help as it is not only slightly touching. here is photo:

The Rookie

The High stop looks like it could come out further, you have tried that?

Even 2.5mm would only just centre the mech over the chain which suggests there is something else at issue than the parts used.

vlado

I have tried it, you think 113mm BB will help and shifting will be ok???or try FD M4000 TS6? or both together?

The Rookie

You need to find out why it's not coming out far enough, I see no point buying extra stuff that isn't needed.

Have you backed the stop off and tried moving the cage out further by hand? If it will go further it's the setup of the mech and cabling....you have got the cable the right side of the clamp bolt? Its a common mistake to get it the wrong side and that reduces the pull ratio.

vlado

Tried it with hand and can't move it more out. checked it all and everzthing seems to be ok. right place, cabling....... but will check it again

The Rookie

DID YOU BACK OFF THE HIGH STOP FIRST?

vlado

Sorry you make me confused a bit. High stop:do you mean small screw placing the cage to the position which prevent the chain to fall from largest chainring??? what do you mean: did I back it off first??? I followed all instructions which came with FD. The only thing I didn't do in that order was to remove small black plastic thing-I accidentally moved it when I got it from the box and I couldn't find out why was it there and how was it there. It was placed inside FD holding the cage away from FD body :-(

sheepsteeth

try unwinding the screw with the "h" next to it. This should give you more room to move the cage of the derailleur and solve the problems.

unwind it by half a turn at a time and check after each half turn.

The Rookie

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19686088#p19686088]vlado[/url] wrote:

Sorry you make me confused a bit. High stop:do you mean small screw placing the cage to the position which prevent the chain to fall from largest chainring??? what do you mean: did I back it off first??? I followed all instructions which came with FD. The only thing I didn't do in that order was to remove small black plastic thing-I accidentally moved it when I got it from the box and I couldn't find out why was it there and how was it there. It was placed inside FD holding the cage away from FD body :-(

The stop with the letter H next to it does indeed stop the cage moving too far, if it's screwed in too far it will prevent the age moving out far enough to clear the chain.

vlado

H screw is completely out. do not know where's the problem but will try to buy 113mm long BB and hope it will work. if not i'll try to buy another FD as well

The Rookie

So you wound the H screw right out, could you move the mech further by hand?

Look at the side of the mech

supersonic

Try adding more tension to the cable. Does the mech move to the stop?

vlado

couldn't move it further by hand. it looks like cage is in max position. when I add more tension to the cable I can shift the chain to the largest chainring, but much harder then before. It doesn't sort out anything because at the end it is still the same as before-chain rubbing the cage. Have already ordered shorter BB so will let you know if it will help.

vlado

Finally after some time back home, so sorry for late answer. Ordered new BB -113mm and it works fine. shifting is perfect, enough room for smallest chainring and chain is not touching the cage. the only problem was with FD. Had to move it higher on the frame cause middle chainring was touching the cage. but now everything works fine thanks again for all your help