Monarch RT3; 40% sag but only using 75% of travel...?
neilus
Posts: 245
Hiya
As title suggests; I'm at the bikepark in saalbach so it's getting a fair bit of abuse, but it doesn't seem right. 40% sag suggests pretty low pressure in the shock yet there's still a good 20mm I'm not using. And I'd dearly love to as the ride is bone-rattlingly rough at the moment and I'm getting a bit pi$$ed off...
If I let out a few psi to use 90% of the travel that would give me a sag of 50% or something ridiculous...tho I did watch something about setting up shocks and it said use post ride travel as your guide not sag, if you're constantly bottoming out pump it up a bit so you're not, and that's it. Ignore sag.
That's a pretty appealing strategy at the mo!
What d'yall reckon?
As title suggests; I'm at the bikepark in saalbach so it's getting a fair bit of abuse, but it doesn't seem right. 40% sag suggests pretty low pressure in the shock yet there's still a good 20mm I'm not using. And I'd dearly love to as the ride is bone-rattlingly rough at the moment and I'm getting a bit pi$$ed off...
If I let out a few psi to use 90% of the travel that would give me a sag of 50% or something ridiculous...tho I did watch something about setting up shocks and it said use post ride travel as your guide not sag, if you're constantly bottoming out pump it up a bit so you're not, and that's it. Ignore sag.
That's a pretty appealing strategy at the mo!
What d'yall reckon?
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Comments
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What frame is it on and what damper settings are you using?0
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It's on a giant trance 1. Obviously it's switched to open, I've tried various rebound settings but it's still an awfully juddery ride. Rebound settings remain a mystery to me, I assume a slower rebound makes a smoother ride but it doesn't seem to be the case...0
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It sounds like the air spring is ramping up far too much. Or else the damper further into the stroke is playing up. Either way it is not right and if is bought new recently I would be contacting the retailer.0
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have you let all of the air out of the shock then compressed the bike to see how far the shock actually moves ?0
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Have you fitted any volume reducing spacers in the air can?Transition Patrol - viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=130702350
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Have you fitted any volume reducing spacers in the air can?
My RS rt3 L L3 came with 4or 5 reducer bands. Try whipping a few out.'14 Whyte T129s-*DEAD*
OnOne Codeine 29er0 -
Thanks for the replies, unfortunately I didn't make any progress with getting the shock sorted as I crashed pretty hard on my first run. There were these wierd ruts everywhere, looked like a trails equivalent of moguls and after 3 days of arm rattling id had enough and tried a different line to the edge of the trail which was asking for trouble as it was just very loose gravel...
Alpine bike parks are great, providing you've got the right tool for the job...
I look into the spacers when I stop aching and I'm not pi$$ed off with mtb-ing!
Cheers0 -
have you let all of the air out of the shock then compressed the bike to see how far the shock actually moves ?
I'd check this, the trance should use a 200/51 shock and I'm not sure about the monarch on yours but the fox ctd on mine is actually a 200/57 with its travel restricted internally to match a 200/51 and give the 140mm of rear travel.0 -
Ok I just let the air out to see how much travel there really is, and yes it stops about 15mm short of the shaft end so it looks like theres some reducer bands in the can. But i doubt very much using that would have made a huge difference...as i said it was these wierd worn out bumps on the trail that were just battering my arms so if anything I should probably be looking at the forks. O-ring on my Revelations at 140mm was probably about 20mm short of full travel which i think is fairly normal.
I asked lots of people about these wierd ruts on the trail and nobody seemed to know what I was on about! I guess their whopping great BoXXers or Fox Factory 40s didnt notice them.
I rode the same trails 6 weeks ago on a rented Trance 3 and it was great; last week on a bought Trance 1 was very different and pretty unpleasant, so rough im surprised my teeth didnt fall out. I can only conclude the trails conditions had deteriorated a lot and were too much for an AM bike.
I had 3 pinch flats in 4 days if that sheds any light on anything...?
Cheers!!0 -
How much shaft stroke are you getting in total?0
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supersonic wrote:How much shaft stroke are you getting in total?
15mm short of 65mm, so about 50mm...that doesnt sound like much!0 -
As hinted on above, it may be designed for 50mm ie 2 inch stroke. I'd have to check though.0
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It is designed to have a stroke of 51mm so it sounds like you are getting enough travel. As for it being harsh it may be that the shock just needs some time to bed in.0
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I asked lots of people about these wierd ruts on the trail and nobody seemed to know what I was on about! I guess their whopping great BoXXers or Fox Factory 40s didnt notice them.
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I had 3 pinch flats in 4 days if that sheds any light on anything...?
Cheers!!
Ok - so you are wandering way off topic but the ruts are braking bumps and form over time on any heavily used trail, particularly in bike parks. Weight back, off the brakes and let it run.
Pinch flats equates to one of more of" poor technique, over braking, tyre pressure and terrain. Not specifically related to poor suspension.
Sounds to me as though you do not know how to set up suspension. You are riding on terrain above your ability level and are not helped by poor bike set up. Go back to where ever you bought the bike from and get them to assist you with set up.Closet jockey wheel pimp whore.0 -
It is designed to have a stroke of 51mm so it sounds like you are getting enough travel. As for it being harsh it may be that the shock just needs some time to bed in.
Thanks thats good to know. But im wondering why make the shaft a certain length only to effectively shorten it with spacers? Can only think its there to allow people to remove them for longer travel to fine-tune the shock should they wish to...
Cheers Paul, a very helpful post. So thats what the wee buggers were, braking bumps (AKA stutter bumps apparently) and you make some other points i wouldnt argue with.
Cheers10 -
It is designed to have a stroke of 51mm so it sounds like you are getting enough travel. As for it being harsh it may be that the shock just needs some time to bed in.
Thanks thats good to know. But im wondering why make the shaft a certain length only to effectively shorten it with spacers? Can only think its there to allow people to remove them for longer travel to fine-tune the shock should they wish to...
Cheers Paul, a very helpful post. So thats what the wee buggers were, braking bumps (AKA stutter bumps apparently) and you make some other points i wouldnt argue with.
Cheers1
It's so they don't have to manufacture lots of different shock sizes for the varying company standards.0 -
Bike park braking bumps can be evil. Stay off the brakes as you ride through them to allow your suspension to work. Try to stay off the ground where possible as well.
I have just got back from the Alps and ended up taking the oil seals out from under the dust seals on my fork to reduce stiction, not ideal as I had to do a lower lube every day to top up oil but it stopped my hands getting wrecked.Transition Patrol - viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=130702350 -
Bike park braking bumps can be evil. Stay off the brakes as you ride through them to allow your suspension to work. Try to stay off the ground where possible as well.
I have just got back from the Alps and ended up taking the oil seals out from under the dust seals on my fork to reduce stiction, not ideal as I had to do a lower lube every day to top up oil but it stopped my hands getting wrecked.
Ah so im not alone! Yeah I had to literally use one hand to straighten out the fingers on the other every 3 mins or so. Seems technique is more important than shock set up for dealing with brake bumps.
Why dont they use some of that honeycombe matting on the trails to prevent them?
Where did you go RM?0 -
I was in Les Arcs, the braking bumps were horrible. Rubber matting would get shredded and cost too much. The problem is caused by a combination of bad riding by lots of people and a lack of trail maintenance.
Suspension set up is very important but with a shock like the Monarch you don't have the compression damping control or adjustment to get it right.
In the Alps the problem is much more obvious than on the UK because of the speed and the amount of riding you can do in a day.Transition Patrol - viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=130702350 -
Ah so im not alone! Yeah I had to literally use one hand to straighten out the fingers on the other every 3 mins or so. Seems technique is more important than shock set up for dealing with brake bumps.
Why dont they use some of that honeycombe matting on the trails to prevent them?
Where did you go RM?
They use kind of hollow waffle type bricks in some US bike parks on heavily used corners which are then back filled with dirt. But the dirt gets kicked out leaving an uneven concrete surface which if you go down on it will do you no end of damage.
Only way to deal with them is wait for a wet day and send a trail crew up but its expensive in man hours and in France in particular once they open the lifts they pretty much leave it up to the riders to deal with whatever comes their way. Or alternatively as I once experienced in Les Gets, they send heavy machinery and a crew up to do some work without putting up any warning signs or closing the trail and you find yourself coming off a jump into a berm that has a digger and two guys with pick axes in the middle of it.Closet jockey wheel pimp whore.0 -
As you were running too much sag you were probably bottoming out' that will do nothing for grip or control.Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.0
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Is it also why there's often jumps directly before a berm, to cut people's speed? And come to think of it I think there had been a race there the weekend before - but surely they'd have fixed the track up after it had been hammered by pro riders before opening up again?0
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Jumping into a berm is fun - probably does nothing to slow people down! Fixing tracks after races....unlikely. If this is France it was probably a public holiday or lunchtime or they were on strike or something...Is it also why there's often jumps directly before a berm, to cut people's speed? And come to think of it I think there had been a race there the weekend before - but surely they'd have fixed the track up after it had been hammered by pro riders before opening up again?Closet jockey wheel pimp whore.0 -
paul.skibum wrote:
Jumping into a berm is fun - probably does nothing to slow people down! Fixing tracks after races....unlikely. If this is France it was probably a public holiday or lunchtime or they were on strike or something...Is it also why there's often jumps directly before a berm, to cut people's speed? And come to think of it I think there had been a race there the weekend before - but surely they'd have fixed the track up after it had been hammered by pro riders before opening up again?
Yup im trying to improve my jumping and felt more confident jumping into a turn than straight run up jumps. And this aint France, Austria normally has a Swiss-like efficiency which is why i find it odd theyd open up battered trails to the public...i passed a few groups of tattooed guys smoking suspicious looking roll-ups, a few spades lying around, getting rid of brake bumps didnt seem high on their 'to do' list 0 -
Jumps in to berms should help prevent braking bumps in theory, if you treat it as a hip then you're turning in the air so any braking is done before the kicker. Unfortunately not everyone can ride these properly and drag brakes in to the berm.
As you approach the kicker you need to be ready to pump the lip and starting to turn before you take off. You should be landing where your high point in the berm would normally be. As you land push down and pump out of the berm. It takes a while to get right but when you get it right you will be flying down the trail.Transition Patrol - viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=130702350 -
Jumps in to berms should help prevent braking bumps in theory, if you treat it as a hip then you're turning in the air so any braking is done before the kicker. Unfortunately not everyone can ride these properly and drag brakes in to the berm.
As you approach the kicker you need to be ready to pump the lip and starting to turn before you take off. You should be landing where your high point in the berm would normally be. As you land push down and pump out of the berm. It takes a while to get right but when you get it right you will be flying down the trail.
Cheers, good advice as always...trying to get my head around 'pumping'. I can bunny hop ok (i won that Ford BMX challenge bh comp in my town *a few* years back), as this is essentially a pump/rebound movement i reckon doing the same movement should get me airborne ok. Success seems to depend on timing the pump...and a bunch of other stuff! 0 -
Never pull up, just unweight the bike and let the suspension do the rest.Transition Patrol - viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=130702350
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Cheers RM, looking forward to making progress with jumping...Starting to think id like to do more park riding and maybe grabbing a 2nd hand dh bike if the price is right. Eg:
2010 Lapierre DH720
http://www.willhaben.at/iad/kaufen-und-verkaufen/sport-sportgeraete/lapierre-dh-720-128935127/
Looks in mint condition, reckon i could get it for 1400 which is 1000 pounds...or any other advice for grabbing a 2nd hand dh-er? Yeah I know ive just bought a new Trance, which is great for the stuff i normally ride, i just reckon its gonna struggle in the parks over here.
Cheers!0 -
Don't buy a DH720 (or any Lappierre DH bike) unless you're very good at welding! I have seen several with snapped rear triangles. Everyone I have met with one has broken at least one frame.Transition Patrol - viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=130702350
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Re: the brake bumps...was talking to friend about them and Im thinking less sag/faster rebound might work...if youre running a lot of sag, using a lot of travel, the bumps are so close together that theres no way the fork will return to a point where it can use the full travel again, and after 5 bumps of so youre probably gonna be using the very end of your travel when it can be pretty stiff. I think thats what Rookie meant about too much travel worsening the situation.
Might have to go back to see if its the case...
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