Doping in Athletics...
Comments
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Ive seen the jump but wasn't born at the time but I do remember Jonathon Edwards almost jumping out of the pit in Gothenburg in 1995 and Edwards would be the last man I'd expect of being on the juice. The long and triple are two events where if all the factors come together something amazing can happen.Those of a certain age will remember the American Bob Beamon who broke the world long jump record at the 1968 Olympics by nearly two feet when increments are normally in inches or fractions of an inch. I'm not saying he did and I'm not saying he didn't, but by feck it sure looked like it wasn't done on just water...Pinno, מלך אידיוט וחרא מכונאי0 -
It's always been the dirty sport. Ben Johnson's disqualification in the Seoul Olympics was a disaster for the sport. Florence Griffith Joyner R.I.P also failed a drugs test at the Seoul Olympics but the Games Sponsors and the sports governing body were fearful of the damage both mens and womens sprint champions being disqualified for cheating would cause and allowed her to keep her Gold medals on the condition that she retire after the games. Her records still stand today.
Old news now but I'm not sure things have moved on much since then.Pinno, מלך אידיוט וחרא מכונאי0 -
Athletes getting caught is one thing but a cover up is much, much worse!
It's always been the dirty sport. Ben Johnson's disqualification in the Seoul Olympics was a disaster for the sport. Florence Griffith Joyner R.I.P also failed a drugs test at the Seoul Olympics but the Games Sponsors and the sports governing body were fearful of the damage both mens and womens sprint champions being disqualified for cheating would cause and allowed her to keep her Gold medals on the condition that she retire after the games. Her records still stand today.
Old news now but I'm not sure things have moved on much since then.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I agree, the covering up must surely facilitate the use of drugs etc.
Athletes getting caught is one thing but a cover up is much, much worse!
It's always been the dirty sport. Ben Johnson's disqualification in the Seoul Olympics was a disaster for the sport. Florence Griffith Joyner R.I.P also failed a drugs test at the Seoul Olympics but the Games Sponsors and the sports governing body were fearful of the damage both mens and womens sprint champions being disqualified for cheating would cause and allowed her to keep her Gold medals on the condition that she retire after the games. Her records still stand today.
Old news now but I'm not sure things have moved on much since then.
As an aside, I wonder if any "gongs" would be withdrawn from any athletes who have cheated?Tail end Charlie
The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.0 -
I agree, the covering up must surely facilitate the use of drugs etc.
Athletes getting caught is one thing but a cover up is much, much worse!
It's always been the dirty sport. Ben Johnson's disqualification in the Seoul Olympics was a disaster for the sport. Florence Griffith Joyner R.I.P also failed a drugs test at the Seoul Olympics but the Games Sponsors and the sports governing body were fearful of the damage both mens and womens sprint champions being disqualified for cheating would cause and allowed her to keep her Gold medals on the condition that she retire after the games. Her records still stand today.
Old news now but I'm not sure things have moved on much since then.
As an aside, I wonder if any "gongs" would be withdrawn from any athletes who have cheated?
I don't think the IAAF or the IOC will ever retrospectively punish anyone. I truly beleive that under all the gloss of the IOC, they are bricking it. All the PR sentiments along the lines of "...we are doing our best to rid our sport of drugs..." is just lip-service. I think they will ban a few as a political move and try and brush it inder the carpet.
The problem of retrospective banning/disqualification is that where do they draw the line? It would happen under a flawed moral relativism. What was legal then isn't now (e.g caffeine?).seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
I don't think you could or should punish someone who wasn't breaking the rules at the time, even if it was morally ambiguous and frowned upon by other athletes. One or more of our famous middle distance runners may have been blood doping but what of it? It wasn't cheating, was it?
I agree, the covering up must surely facilitate the use of drugs etc.
Athletes getting caught is one thing but a cover up is much, much worse!
It's always been the dirty sport. Ben Johnson's disqualification in the Seoul Olympics was a disaster for the sport. Florence Griffith Joyner R.I.P also failed a drugs test at the Seoul Olympics but the Games Sponsors and the sports governing body were fearful of the damage both mens and womens sprint champions being disqualified for cheating would cause and allowed her to keep her Gold medals on the condition that she retire after the games. Her records still stand today.
Old news now but I'm not sure things have moved on much since then.
As an aside, I wonder if any "gongs" would be withdrawn from any athletes who have cheated?
I don't think the IAAF or the IOC will ever retrospectively punish anyone. I truly beleive that under all the gloss of the IOC, they are bricking it. All the PR sentiments along the lines of "...we are doing our best to rid our sport of drugs..." is just lip-service. I think they will ban a few as a political move and try and brush it inder the carpet.
The problem of retrospective banning/disqualification is that where do they draw the line? It would happen under a flawed moral relativism. What was legal then isn't now (e.g caffeine?).Pinno, מלך אידיוט וחרא מכונאי0 -
Ive seen the jump but wasn't born at the time but I do remember Jonathon Edwards almost jumping out of the pit in Gothenburg in 1995 and Edwards would be the last man I'd expect of being on the juice. The long and triple are two events where if all the factors come together something amazing can happen.Those of a certain age will remember the American Bob Beamon who broke the world long jump record at the 1968 Olympics by nearly two feet when increments are normally in inches or fractions of an inch. I'm not saying he did and I'm not saying he didn't, but by feck it sure looked like it wasn't done on just water...
Edwards was on top form and the tailwind was right on the limit, in fact his longer jump didn't count as a WR because the wind was over when he did it. As you say, just a perfect time and an athlete at the very top of the game.0 -
If an athlete is running/jumping/throwing and they have put drugs/blood into their bodies they are cheating over others that have not.THEY ARE CHEATS.
I don't think you could or should punish someone who wasn't breaking the rules at the time, even if it was morally ambiguous and frowned upon by other athletes. One or more of our famous middle distance runners may have been blood doping but what of it? It wasn't cheating, was it?
I agree, the covering up must surely facilitate the use of drugs etc.
Athletes getting caught is one thing but a cover up is much, much worse!
It's always been the dirty sport. Ben Johnson's disqualification in the Seoul Olympics was a disaster for the sport. Florence Griffith Joyner R.I.P also failed a drugs test at the Seoul Olympics but the Games Sponsors and the sports governing body were fearful of the damage both mens and womens sprint champions being disqualified for cheating would cause and allowed her to keep her Gold medals on the condition that she retire after the games. Her records still stand today.
Old news now but I'm not sure things have moved on much since then.
As an aside, I wonder if any "gongs" would be withdrawn from any athletes who have cheated?
I don't think the IAAF or the IOC will ever retrospectively punish anyone. I truly beleive that under all the gloss of the IOC, they are bricking it. All the PR sentiments along the lines of "...we are doing our best to rid our sport of drugs..." is just lip-service. I think they will ban a few as a political move and try and brush it inder the carpet.
The problem of retrospective banning/disqualification is that where do they draw the line? It would happen under a flawed moral relativism. What was legal then isn't now (e.g caffeine?).
I said earlier, at one point the powers that be were on about nullifying all olympic records up to 2000 because they could not be sure what records were legit. In the eastern bloc women athletes were impregnated and then aborted so their bodies benefitted from the extra hormones etc that pregnancy brought.
In the 50's and 60's speed was the drug of choice for cyclists and was accepted as so by all and sundry,it was the done thing. This legacy (not withstanding the Festina affair and Armstrong et al) is why modern day cyclist are still viewed with an air of cynasism. For some reason trackand field athletes are not. I think that might just change.Tail end Charlie
The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.0 -
Blood doping wasn't banned until 1986 for example. Athletes using before this date, although some would call cheats, can't retrospectively be punished.
If an athlete is running/jumping/throwing and they have put drugs/blood into their bodies they are cheating over others that have not.THEY ARE CHEATS.
I don't think you could or should punish someone who wasn't breaking the rules at the time, even if it was morally ambiguous and frowned upon by other athletes. One or more of our famous middle distance runners may have been blood doping but what of it? It wasn't cheating, was it?
I agree, the covering up must surely facilitate the use of drugs etc.
Athletes getting caught is one thing but a cover up is much, much worse!
It's always been the dirty sport. Ben Johnson's disqualification in the Seoul Olympics was a disaster for the sport. Florence Griffith Joyner R.I.P also failed a drugs test at the Seoul Olympics but the Games Sponsors and the sports governing body were fearful of the damage both mens and womens sprint champions being disqualified for cheating would cause and allowed her to keep her Gold medals on the condition that she retire after the games. Her records still stand today.
Old news now but I'm not sure things have moved on much since then.
As an aside, I wonder if any "gongs" would be withdrawn from any athletes who have cheated?
I don't think the IAAF or the IOC will ever retrospectively punish anyone. I truly beleive that under all the gloss of the IOC, they are bricking it. All the PR sentiments along the lines of "...we are doing our best to rid our sport of drugs..." is just lip-service. I think they will ban a few as a political move and try and brush it inder the carpet.
The problem of retrospective banning/disqualification is that where do they draw the line? It would happen under a flawed moral relativism. What was legal then isn't now (e.g caffeine?).
I said earlier, at one point the powers that be were on about nullifying all olympic records up to 2000 because they could not be sure what records were legit. In the eastern bloc women athletes were impregnated and then aborted so their bodies benefitted from the extra hormones etc that pregnancy brought.
In the 50's and 60's speed was the drug of choice for cyclists and was accepted as so by all and sundry,it was the done thing. This legacy (not withstanding the Festina affair and Armstrong et al) is why modern day cyclist are still viewed with an air of cynasism. For some reason trackand field athletes are not. I think that might just change.Pinno, מלך אידיוט וחרא מכונאי0 -
That still leaves the 29 years in between.Blood doping wasn't banned until 1986 for example. Athletes using before this date, although some would call cheats, can't retrospectively be punished.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Even though not banned (I believe you) I am not comfortable with that, are you.
Blood doping wasn't banned until 1986 for example. Athletes using before this date, although some would call cheats, can't retrospectively be punished.
If an athlete is running/jumping/throwing and they have put drugs/blood into their bodies they are cheating over others that have not.THEY ARE CHEATS.
I don't think you could or should punish someone who wasn't breaking the rules at the time, even if it was morally ambiguous and frowned upon by other athletes. One or more of our famous middle distance runners may have been blood doping but what of it? It wasn't cheating, was it?
I agree, the covering up must surely facilitate the use of drugs etc.
Athletes getting caught is one thing but a cover up is much, much worse!
It's always been the dirty sport. Ben Johnson's disqualification in the Seoul Olympics was a disaster for the sport. Florence Griffith Joyner R.I.P also failed a drugs test at the Seoul Olympics but the Games Sponsors and the sports governing body were fearful of the damage both mens and womens sprint champions being disqualified for cheating would cause and allowed her to keep her Gold medals on the condition that she retire after the games. Her records still stand today.
Old news now but I'm not sure things have moved on much since then.
As an aside, I wonder if any "gongs" would be withdrawn from any athletes who have cheated?
I don't think the IAAF or the IOC will ever retrospectively punish anyone. I truly beleive that under all the gloss of the IOC, they are bricking it. All the PR sentiments along the lines of "...we are doing our best to rid our sport of drugs..." is just lip-service. I think they will ban a few as a political move and try and brush it inder the carpet.
The problem of retrospective banning/disqualification is that where do they draw the line? It would happen under a flawed moral relativism. What was legal then isn't now (e.g caffeine?).
I said earlier, at one point the powers that be were on about nullifying all olympic records up to 2000 because they could not be sure what records were legit. In the eastern bloc women athletes were impregnated and then aborted so their bodies benefitted from the extra hormones etc that pregnancy brought.
In the 50's and 60's speed was the drug of choice for cyclists and was accepted as so by all and sundry,it was the done thing. This legacy (not withstanding the Festina affair and Armstrong et al) is why modern day cyclist are still viewed with an air of cynasism. For some reason trackand field athletes are not. I think that might just change.Tail end Charlie
The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.0 -
Nah, the cheating b@stards.
Even though not banned (I believe you) I am not comfortable with that, are you.
Blood doping wasn't banned until 1986 for example. Athletes using before this date, although some would call cheats, can't retrospectively be punished.
If an athlete is running/jumping/throwing and they have put drugs/blood into their bodies they are cheating over others that have not.THEY ARE CHEATS.
I don't think you could or should punish someone who wasn't breaking the rules at the time, even if it was morally ambiguous and frowned upon by other athletes. One or more of our famous middle distance runners may have been blood doping but what of it? It wasn't cheating, was it?
I agree, the covering up must surely facilitate the use of drugs etc.
Athletes getting caught is one thing but a cover up is much, much worse!
It's always been the dirty sport. Ben Johnson's disqualification in the Seoul Olympics was a disaster for the sport. Florence Griffith Joyner R.I.P also failed a drugs test at the Seoul Olympics but the Games Sponsors and the sports governing body were fearful of the damage both mens and womens sprint champions being disqualified for cheating would cause and allowed her to keep her Gold medals on the condition that she retire after the games. Her records still stand today.
Old news now but I'm not sure things have moved on much since then.
As an aside, I wonder if any "gongs" would be withdrawn from any athletes who have cheated?
I don't think the IAAF or the IOC will ever retrospectively punish anyone. I truly beleive that under all the gloss of the IOC, they are bricking it. All the PR sentiments along the lines of "...we are doing our best to rid our sport of drugs..." is just lip-service. I think they will ban a few as a political move and try and brush it inder the carpet.
The problem of retrospective banning/disqualification is that where do they draw the line? It would happen under a flawed moral relativism. What was legal then isn't now (e.g caffeine?).
I said earlier, at one point the powers that be were on about nullifying all olympic records up to 2000 because they could not be sure what records were legit. In the eastern bloc women athletes were impregnated and then aborted so their bodies benefitted from the extra hormones etc that pregnancy brought.
In the 50's and 60's speed was the drug of choice for cyclists and was accepted as so by all and sundry,it was the done thing. This legacy (not withstanding the Festina affair and Armstrong et al) is why modern day cyclist are still viewed with an air of cynasism. For some reason trackand field athletes are not. I think that might just change.Pinno, מלך אידיוט וחרא מכונאי0 -
Started?I think they will ban a few as a political move and try and brush it inder the carpet.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/33964788The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Started?I think they will ban a few as a political move and try and brush it inder the carpet.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/33964788
4th place to be upgraded to receive bronze... an athlete previously banned for swapping her urine sample.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-3201270/Asli-Cakir-Alptekin-surrenders-London-Olympic-1500m-gold-serve-eight-year-ban-admitting-blood-doping.html0 -
What did she get for it?
Started?I think they will ban a few as a political move and try and brush it inder the carpet.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/33964788
4th place to be upgraded to receive bronze... an athlete previously banned for swapping her urine sample.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-3201270/Asli-Cakir-Alptekin-surrenders-London-Olympic-1500m-gold-serve-eight-year-ban-admitting-blood-doping.html
Tail end Charlie
The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.0 -
A dirty sport. A very dirty sport.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
A dirty sport. A very dirty sport.
I know, these athletes are just not like cyclists are they?seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Just evening out the mudslinging after decades of telling them that it is not only cycling.A dirty sport. A very dirty sport.
I know, these athletes are just not like cyclists are they?
Probably not worthwhile preaching to the converted though.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Is there any clean sport? Even now, is cycling clean?
Yes athletics seems to be in need of following cycling into the modern anti-doping world but I don't see how labelling the whole sport does anyone any favours. Do you seriously want the climate of accusations and downright abuse Froome got on athletes similar to him? There are plenty of cases of athletes being on the edge of the top flight, always making quarter or semi finals of major comps but no further due to injuries. Then a couple of healthy seasons they're competing. Would they get the doping accusation and abuse because people are associating drugs with the sport.
I'm not saying it is wrong to root out all who break the rules on this, just that we try not to wreck the image of another sport. Cycling, I feel, may take a long time to get over its bad PR, let's not put athletics through that. Let's just catch the cheats operating now. That'll show action against it. All this history is bad, if proven, but the main priority is to get the present right. The past can be sorted later.0 -
I want cheats to be caught.
I want cheats to be punished.
I want it to be made public.
I want it to apply to all sports.
But most of all, I want an end to the whitewashes.
Oh, and while we are at it, I want to win the lottery. I know which is the most likely.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
And you're getting it in cycling along with the repercussions such as Froome (assuming he is clean) and his team mates getting abuse and assaulted on the Tour. All I am saying is there should be some way to handle this without creating hysteria, paranoia and abuse of athletes without evidence of cheating. The day you get a long jumper or a 10k runner at the end of the race being spat at, punched or urine thrown at them when they are shattered just because someone has hurled an accusation without evidence to really back it up (and say that was made on national TV and not to the anti-doping authorities) then things have gone too far. Catch them but don't ruin the sport for a generation. Not saying cycling has done that but you could say it has been close to that.
I could be wrong here and athletics manages a complete clear out without a witch hunt and abuse of the athletes left. However that will take them learning from cycling and also managing the media really quite well. Coping with claims efficiently, etc., etc., etc.0 -
Let a Frenchman win Le Tour. Maybe the abuse will stop then.
If the authorities get it right then there should be no repercussions from the fans.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Can there be anyone outside the US not cheering Bolt's win against the drugs cheat Gatlin?0
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People who are aware of all his teammates being busted for doping a couple of years ago.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/249005650 -
I was cheering!Can there be anyone outside the US not cheering Bolt's win against the drugs cheat Gatlin? To win after the season he's had and his poor starts in qualifying, what a champ 
Pinno, מלך אידיוט וחרא מכונאי0 -
All his teammates ? :?People who are aware of all his teammates being busted for doping a couple of years ago.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/24900565Pinno, מלך אידיוט וחרא מכונאי0 -
People who are aware of all his teammates being busted for doping a couple of years ago.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/24900565
I was cheering too, Sean.
As regards Powell and others being tested +ve, until there is evidence to the contrary, we have to accept that Bolt is clean. Just like Froome and anyone else who excels in whichever field.0 -
Sure.
There's more mud being thrown around about Jamaican sprinting than just performance.
I don't get really hot under the collar about doping, but it's a fools game to draw a line between 'good' and 'evil' between Bolt an Gay, nor is such a distinction helpful in the fight against doping, as we have seen in cycling.0 -
You mean Bolt and Gatlin. One we do know is a drugs cheat, one we don't. Lesser of two evils and I love athletics and need somebody to cheer.Sure.
There's more mud being thrown around about Jamaican sprinting than just performance.
I don't get really hot under the collar about doping, but it's a fools game to draw a line between 'good' and 'evil' between Bolt an Gay, nor is such a distinction helpful in the fight against doping, as we have seen in cycling.
Slightly off topic but Michael Johnson's commentary/presenting is awesome! I feel sorry for him having to give detailed analysts of the lesser British athletes but I'm so glad he's on the BBC. Ahhh swoon, I could listen to him all day Pinno, מלך אידיוט וחרא מכונאי0 -
I was cheering Bolt too. Of the 9 starters in the 100m final yesterday, four had been convicted of doping offences. It is ridiculous that almost half of those in the final were allowed to compete in one of the world's most prestigious sporting events. Life bans are the answer. End of.
Despite the dirty, cynical and depressing nature of some of athletics, I cannot be alone in finding Jessica Ennis the most wonderful example of an athlete - a truly class act.Wilier Izoard XP0
