Canyon Nerve AL 6.0 rear axel / skewer

larkim

Son's Nerve was put up on the rack last night as it was making horrible noises when braking. Of course, the pads are shot (he didn't seem to think it was a problem!).

On removing the rear wheel to get a better view of the pads (mainly to show him what fully worn down pads look like!), things didn't feel quite right.

The Nerve AL 6.0 (2015 model) doesn't come with a through axel, instead it comes with a QR skewer into a non-standard thumb nut which is fixed into the frame.

The wheel has only been off twice before - once when he first got it when I wanted to check how things worked, and once when he did it himself out in the wild to sort a puncture.

When I came to remove it last night I noticed two odd things:-
- firstly, the skewer came out with only the lever at the end on it; no spring, no curved plates etc etc. I strongly suspect either both a spring and the plates, or just the plates (if that's all there was) fell off in the forest when he was repairing things last time, and he never noticed they were missing.
- secondly, on the inside of the drive side there was a slightly mangled spring inside the hole where the axel would locate. It was too mashed to put the wheel back on properly, so I've removed it. Why would there (should there?) be a spring in here? And does anyone know what part I would need to buy to replace it?

Thanks in advance for any help!

Matt

The Rookie

There will be no spring, that is used to centre a skewer for easy fitting and removal and not needed for a through axle (however small).

Not sure what plate you are referring to, do you mean the bit of a skewer the cam bears against, again that probably wasn't needed in this application.

Which manufacturer?

larkim

Ok, thanks. Not sure of the manufacturer. I was searching my vocab for "cam"!

I'm still wondering what the spring inside the drive side was for though. I suppose it could be a helicoil?

The Rookie

A Helicoil is used to create or repair a thread!

Where those bits definitely there before? A cam is an egg shaped piece that rotates and creates a force, look on any QR seatpost or skewer.

larkim

No idea if the cam was there before - it just looked odd to be removing the skewer and only having the lever and the shaft with no external cam present. It isn't an internal cam skewer design, but from all of the googling I've done I've not seen a skewer without a cam, hence wondering if someone else who had the same bike might have some insight.

I know what a helicoil is for - that's why I was wondering if it might be one, needed to repair perhaps a frame botch during manufacture (perhaps to seat the drive side nut (where the acorn nut would normally be), which I've described as a thumb nut above?). I just can't see any need for a spring at that location, as inserting / removing the wheel would inevitably cause it to get mangled.

I've emailed Canyon support, but not heard anything as yet.

The Rookie

The cam is the eccentric piece that is part of the lever, any flat bit is the bit it pushes against, you've got them mixed up!

So was there a spring there when you first took it apart or not? If the frame had been helicoiled and the helicoil fell out you would no longer be able to screw anything into the thread where it was as there will now be no thread!

cooldad

Looks like a normalish external cam to me?



Random spring like mangled thing in a hole would generally be a sign that it's stripped.

larkim

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19671592#p19671592]cooldad[/url] wrote:

Looks like a normalish external cam to me?



Random spring like mangled thing in a hole would generally be a sign that it's stripped.

OK, thanks for the explanation on the cam etc. In simple terms, there is the lever. There is the the threaded bar. And that is it. No eccentric piece, curved washer, washer (at all) etc etc.

In terms of the "spring", my own helicoil term makes no sense at all as clearly the axel needs no thread to allow it to sit in the "hole" that the QR skewer goes straight through into the nut on the other side (the spring was about 5mm in diameter, much larger than the thread of a QR skewer).

I've got this schematic which is largely unhelpful - I think part 29 on this is the kit which "downgrades" the frame from a proper through axel (as fitted in the models 7.0 and above) to one taking a QR skewer. But there is no coil or spring at all in the schematic around the rear axel area.

Nothing feels loose or has any play. But as I've ably demonstrated with my misuse of the term cam etc, I'm no engineer - so just because I can't see any use for it, doesn't mean it doesn't actually need it!!

Thanks for all the steers so far. I'll try to post pics later.

dgunthor

It's mostly a normal QR with QR springs at each end. Drive side end piece is non standard to fit into frame.
Non drive side is standard cam with curved bit.

Axle may be longer than standard? If not any QR with just the drive side end cap from the canyon will do.

I'm sure canyon can sort you out a spare if all else fails

larkim

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19672782#p19672782]dgunthor[/url] wrote:

It's mostly a normal QR with QR springs at each end. Drive side end piece is non standard to fit into frame.
Non drive side is standard cam with curved bit.

Axle may be longer than standard? If not any QR with just the drive side end cap from the canyon will do.

I'm sure canyon can sort you out a spare if all else fails

Cheers - needed to know what was missing!

So you are saying that there is a spring on the external side in between the QR mechanism and the frame, and another spring on the opposite side too (but external to the frame, not internal where the axel sits?

Photo of the skewer as son had left it (I've now salvaged a curved washer etc from another QR and put in here as it clearly needs one)


Photo of the thumb screw on the drive side - not sure if this is removeable, should there be a spring on the inside here too?


Thanks for the help!

Matt

The Rookie

The springs only serve to centre a normal QR to make fitment easier, once done up they serve no purpose - in this application they make little/no sense, you clearly do need the bushing that the cam (eccentric part at the base of the lever clearly visible in your photo) operates against or you'll make a mess of the frame and as you suggest that part from any external cam QR skewer will probably work OK.

larkim

Son's promised me that he's going to ride back to where he fixed the puncture to try to locating the missing part - but scavenging from another bike seems entirely more sensible! I agree, I can't see a need for a spring, but dgunthor has the same bike and there was definitely one in there when I disassembled. Running without shouldn't cause any issues though.

He's not the most technically minded - as I mentioned at the top grinding noises from his rear brakes got mentioned to me as a mild problem. When we removed the pads, he'd gone through the resin and about 0.5mm into the metal of the pad too, but thought nothing of it...

The Rookie

Looking at the skewer, it looks like you could use any normal QR screwed across into the opposing 'fixed' nut, maybe consider a Shimano one, as the cam is internal there is no bush to lose!

larkim

Yup, that was my thinking when I checked Wiggle etc. Of course, I could be really mean an insist that he puts the nasty silver QR skewer that I got to use on a turbo in there in the meanwhile...

The Rookie

I have some really nasty, beaten up and rusty skewers if you want one?

Elcalimero

larkim wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19671592#p19671592]cooldad[/url] wrote:

Looks like a normalish external cam to me?



Random spring like mangled thing in a hole would generally be a sign that it's stripped.

OK, thanks for the explanation on the cam etc. In simple terms, there is the lever. There is the the threaded bar. And that is it. No eccentric piece, curved washer, washer (at all) etc etc.

In terms of the "spring", my own helicoil term makes no sense at all as clearly the axel needs no thread to allow it to sit in the "hole" that the QR skewer goes straight through into the nut on the other side (the spring was about 5mm in diameter, much larger than the thread of a QR skewer).

I've got this schematic which is largely unhelpful - I think part 29 on this is the kit which "downgrades" the frame from a proper through axel (as fitted in the models 7.0 and above) to one taking a QR skewer. But there is no coil or spring at all in the schematic around the rear axel area.

Nothing feels loose or has any play. But as I've ably demonstrated with my misuse of the term cam etc, I'm no engineer - so just because I can't see any use for it, doesn't mean it doesn't actually need it!!

Thanks for all the steers so far. I'll try to post pics later.

Hi,

I have trouble removing the back wheel of my Nerve Al 7.0.... It's the same Axel (your picture).
O need to force the support bar for remove the wheel , is that normal?

Thanks

larkim

Not sure it is the same on the 7.0 and the 6.0 (I thought the 6.0 was the only one with a QR) but yes you do have to spread apart the rear a little too drop the wheel out. It is a bit more fiddly than I expected the first time I did it.