iPhone app average power?

markhewitt1978

While I wait for my Garmin 520 which might be a while. Is there any iPhone app which can do the job in the meantime and do what a Garmin would do in terms of showing the likes of 3second and 10second average power (from a Stages)?

I've tried the likes of Strava and Cyclemeter but they just show immediate power which is less useful as it varies so much.

I know the iPhone won't have battery for long rides but it'll be enough for an hours blast.

sloppyschleckonds

So you have a powermeter but no recording device?

markhewitt1978

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19670460#p19670460]SloppySchleckonds[/url] wrote:

So you have a powermeter but no recording device?

It's recording on my iPhone at the moment but the Cyclemeter app only shows current power not 3 second average

I ordered a Garmin 520 at the same time as the power meter as I was led to believe it would only be a couple of weeks but it might be another 6 weeks yet.

simon_masterson

So you bought a power meter but you don't know how to use the data it gives you?

markhewitt1978

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19670486#p19670486]Simon Masterson[/url] wrote:

So you bought a power meter but you don't know how to use the data it gives you?

Are you able to answer my question or you just want to troll? I refer to my original question.

sloppyschleckonds

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19670474#p19670474]markhewitt1978[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19670460#p19670460]SloppySchleckonds[/url] wrote:

So you have a powermeter but no recording device?

It's recording on my iPhone at the moment but the Cyclemeter app only shows current power not 3 second average

I ordered a Garmin 520 at the same time as the power meter as I was led to believe it would only be a couple of weeks but it might be another 6 weeks yet.

Bugger, can you export the data into golden cheetah anyway? You may find 10 second and average power more useful anyway,

markhewitt1978

I've kind of sorted it.

On cyclemeter there is an option to choose average power, and you can then choose over what time period - the minimum being 20 seconds. Which is a little better than instant power but there's still too much of a lag to be massively useful. On a ride this morning I was trying to keep around 180W and it was jumping back and forwards between 150W and something like 220W, I couldn't seem to stablise it. I suspect the Garmins 3s power would be better - alas I'm still waiting.

Having said that, over the 4 mile climb I beat my previous best by 30 seconds!

iPete

It's good to hear power is already leading to smarter riding.

I wouldn't worry so much about the display, the best thing you can do is build up 2-3 months of data without worrying so much about it.

slowbike

I think there's an argument for using the instant, 3s & 10s power displays in conjunction with each other - the longer the average the more constant it would be, but the harder it is to stabalise it - with the shorter averages it's easier to see what you're doing "now" and stop the yo-yo average power.
It's only really useful if you want to ride to average power - which is handy on something like a TT - a little less relevant on a normal ride ... but handy to train too

markhewitt1978

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19677001#p19677001]Slowbike[/url] wrote:

I think there's an argument for using the instant, 3s & 10s power displays in conjunction with each other - the longer the average the more constant it would be, but the harder it is to stabalise it - with the shorter averages it's easier to see what you're doing "now" and stop the yo-yo average power.
It's only really useful if you want to ride to average power - which is handy on something like a TT - a little less relevant on a normal ride ... but handy to train too

Still learning really. I've heard a lot of comment about using it as a pacing tool for climbs etc and that ideally you want to target a certain wattage you know you can sustain and that's going to be your quickest way to the top. It might also be BS

slowbike

yup you can use it as a pacing tool for hills - but it's not nescersarily your quickest way to the top - who knows (until you've tried it) you may be quicker to go up under power and then push it towards the end ... or, most hills around here have differing gradients along their slope - you may be able to push on on some gradients but not on others.

supermurph09

Before you start using it to "pace" yourself up hills you'll need to establish what pace you can actually do?

slowbike

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19677094#p19677094]Supermurph09[/url] wrote:

Before you start using it to "pace" yourself up hills you'll need to establish what pace you can actually do?

so easy way is to fit the power meter, get an average power displayed (and this is where having a shorter average can help) and see how you go ... the more data you get the better the average - but be aware you do get "off" days as well as "On" days, so your target average Power may not actually be achievable ... making it pointless to try to pace to it.

supermurph09

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19677105#p19677105]Slowbike[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19677094#p19677094]Supermurph09[/url] wrote:

Before you start using it to "pace" yourself up hills you'll need to establish what pace you can actually do?

so easy way is to fit the power meter, get an average power displayed (and this is where having a shorter average can help) and see how you go ... the more data you get the better the average - but be aware you do get "off" days as well as "On" days, so your target average Power may not actually be achievable ... making it pointless to try to pace to it.

Also remember you might be able to do that power with a warm up and then go, might be different if you've already got 40 miles in your legs. It's likely the most useful pacing bit will be to reign in your power at the start.

simon_masterson

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19677094#p19677094]Supermurph09[/url] wrote:

Before you start using it to "pace" yourself up hills you'll need to establish what pace you can actually do?

This, what I'm seeing in this thread is what an HRM is for.

markhewitt1978

This, what I'm seeing in this thread is what an HRM is for.

Both are useful numbers. A power meter to see what work you're doing and a HRM to see if that work is sustainable?

supermurph09

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19677199#p19677199]markhewitt1978[/url] wrote:

This, what I'm seeing in this thread is what an HRM is for.

Both are useful numbers. A power meter to see what work you're doing and a HRM to see if that work is sustainable?

I've binned my HRM now I use power.

iPete

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19677190#p19677190]Simon Masterson[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19677094#p19677094]Supermurph09[/url] wrote:

Before you start using it to "pace" yourself up hills you'll need to establish what pace you can actually do?

This, what I'm seeing in this thread is what an HRM is for.

Why bother with a HRM, just read your pulse as your ride.

supermurph09

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19677223#p19677223]iPete[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19677190#p19677190]Simon Masterson[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19677094#p19677094]Supermurph09[/url] wrote:

Before you start using it to "pace" yourself up hills you'll need to establish what pace you can actually do?

This, what I'm seeing in this thread is what an HRM is for.

Why bother with a HRM, just read your pulse as your ride.

simon_masterson

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19677223#p19677223]iPete[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19677190#p19677190]Simon Masterson[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19677094#p19677094]Supermurph09[/url] wrote:

Before you start using it to "pace" yourself up hills you'll need to establish what pace you can actually do?

This, what I'm seeing in this thread is what an HRM is for.

Why bother with a HRM, just read your pulse as your ride.

Actually, I remember trying this after reading Greg LeMond's book (which is great, by the way), it does work but I think I'll stick to modernity!

simon_masterson

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19677199#p19677199]markhewitt1978[/url] wrote:

This, what I'm seeing in this thread is what an HRM is for.

Both are useful numbers. A power meter to see what work you're doing and a HRM to see if that work is sustainable?

Riding to power is based on knowing what power you can produce for a given duration. If you need HRM to make sense of the data, what you're actually doing is riding to HR. This is why many that ride to power don't bother with HRM.

iPete

But if you ride with power and also have a HRM you can spot periods where your HR is higher than normal for a given power threshold. This could indicate over training, illness etc.

I don't bother with this because I seem incapable of putting on a HRM and have it work consistently!

markhewitt1978

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19677820#p19677820]iPete[/url] wrote:

But if you ride with power and also have a HRM you can spot periods where your HR is higher than normal for a given power threshold. This could indicate over training, illness etc.

Although I'm new to the whole numbers in front of you thing, that's my understanding. That if you know you can put out a consistent 200W for a given climb and maintain 160bpm then it going up to 180bpm means that for whatever reason that's not going to be sustainable today? I would suppose that the reverse is true that if the HR is lower than you would expect you have room to push on?

I don't bother with this because I seem incapable of putting on a HRM and have it work consistently!

I had quite some trouble getting them working, had a Garmin which didn't seem to want to pair, an original Wahoo HRM which worked for about 2 weeks then just stopped, but since the start of the year I've had a Wahoo TICKR and it just works!

simon_masterson

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19677820#p19677820]iPete[/url] wrote:

But if you ride with power and also have a HRM you can spot periods where your HR is higher than normal for a given power threshold. This could indicate over training, illness etc.

I don't bother with this because I seem incapable of putting on a HRM and have it work consistently!

Oh I quite agree. They do seem to be finnicky things, though my Garmin 705 one has been pleasingly reliable. My Polar HRM (watch) has often produced silly numbers, which usually seem to be remediable by making sure that the contacts are seated properly. The Garmin one seems to be better designed in that respect.

slowbike

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19678095#p19678095]Simon Masterson[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19677820#p19677820]iPete[/url] wrote:

But if you ride with power and also have a HRM you can spot periods where your HR is higher than normal for a given power threshold. This could indicate over training, illness etc.

I don't bother with this because I seem incapable of putting on a HRM and have it work consistently!

Oh I quite agree. They do seem to be finnicky things, though my Garmin 705 one has been pleasingly reliable. My Polar HRM (watch) has often produced silly numbers, which usually seem to be remediable by making sure that the contacts are seated properly. The Garmin one seems to be better designed in that respect.

We've got 2 HRM (his n hers) his was the newer one, hers the older (she got her Garmin before me!) My HRM has given up giving reliable readings so I'm now using hers ... she's not riding to HR so doesn't really need it atm ...

supermurph09

What would you deduce from this?

Three Races:

Average power 275W / Average HR 184BPM

Average power 265W / Average HR 184BPM

Average power 273W / Average HR 174BPM

iPete

You could wildly assume you are getting fitter or were in better condition at the third race.
But racing being racing, it can be 0 watts for half the race and 400 for the other.

slowbike

I wouldn't assume anything much from those stats ...

tells you nothing about the course or if the rider was sat in the wheels most of the time - and nothing of where the HR is in reference to max ...

if pushed I'd say that it's a youngish rider who needs to push a bit harder if they want to get quicker.... cos that's not a lot of power

markhewitt1978

Did a decent length ride yesterday, with quite a bit of climbing. I had my phone set up so it was showing instant power - basically every pedal stroke so was up and down like crazy. And 20 average which was rather too laggy to be able to react to.

In any case I did a bit of trying to hold a constant, or near enough, wattage trying to keep it at 200W (not a lot I know but close to my FTP), I found that on the climbs I was putting out much more than that e.g. 300W but on the flatter parts I was doing more like 130W. So holding 200W all the time meant it was holding me right back on the climbs but had me pushing on quite a bit when it flattened out. Like most I usually push on the climbs and use the flats to rest.

Now I've no real idea if holding a constant wattage on the climb and the flat is even close to a good idea or not, but it was interesting all the same. I guess in theory it means that I'm doing the climbing part within my abilities so when I do get to the top I still have the ability to push on.