Car hit me - venting/advice
craigus89
Posts: 887
Yesterday evening I was knocked off my bike in the lanes. This might be long.
I was doing 20mph according to my Garmin approaching a slight left hand bend, saw the guy coming round the corner so moved over further thinking he could either stop in the pull in on his side or move over to let me get through, but he kept moving forwards until he hit me, at this point I was about 1 - 1.5 feet from the hedge, managed to aim the bike towards the hedge which I ended up flying in to, bike tumbled down the road.
What is incredibly annoying is the guys total lack of concern. I dragged myself out of the hedge and he looked like he was going to drive off until I started walking towards him with my phone out ready to take a picture of his number plate, he then put his window down and started to acuse me of going too fast, no "are you okay?" just on the defensive. I said why didn't you move over, he said "I didn't want to drive my van into the hedge".
He didn't stop moving when he clearly could have done, he was being awkward by carrying on into the narrower bit of road where I was. I got the impression from his attitude towards the whole thing that he doesn't care for cyclists.
He reversed backwards when I stood in front of his car to take a picture of his number plate, so I have a photo of the width of the road with his car in it showing how much room there is if he had moved over. There is a good 4-5 feet.
Bike came off a bit worse sadly, handlebars are bent, right crank is bent inwards, buckled rear wheel, front mech (Di2) is broken and some teeth on the front big ring are damaged, and I think the saddle is broken. I just hope that the frame isn't cracked. I went to A&E nothing broken fortunately, just very sore.
I'm reporting it to the police this morning, is there anything else I can do? Sadly don't have bike insurance which I now regret, I guess there is no way at all to recoup any cost of the bike repairs?
I was doing 20mph according to my Garmin approaching a slight left hand bend, saw the guy coming round the corner so moved over further thinking he could either stop in the pull in on his side or move over to let me get through, but he kept moving forwards until he hit me, at this point I was about 1 - 1.5 feet from the hedge, managed to aim the bike towards the hedge which I ended up flying in to, bike tumbled down the road.
What is incredibly annoying is the guys total lack of concern. I dragged myself out of the hedge and he looked like he was going to drive off until I started walking towards him with my phone out ready to take a picture of his number plate, he then put his window down and started to acuse me of going too fast, no "are you okay?" just on the defensive. I said why didn't you move over, he said "I didn't want to drive my van into the hedge".
He didn't stop moving when he clearly could have done, he was being awkward by carrying on into the narrower bit of road where I was. I got the impression from his attitude towards the whole thing that he doesn't care for cyclists.
He reversed backwards when I stood in front of his car to take a picture of his number plate, so I have a photo of the width of the road with his car in it showing how much room there is if he had moved over. There is a good 4-5 feet.
Bike came off a bit worse sadly, handlebars are bent, right crank is bent inwards, buckled rear wheel, front mech (Di2) is broken and some teeth on the front big ring are damaged, and I think the saddle is broken. I just hope that the frame isn't cracked. I went to A&E nothing broken fortunately, just very sore.
I'm reporting it to the police this morning, is there anything else I can do? Sadly don't have bike insurance which I now regret, I guess there is no way at all to recoup any cost of the bike repairs?
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Comments
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Phone the police on 101. Let them tell you how to proceed. Don't go to the police station first, the desk is manned by an ex-policeman, whose job is to put you off making a report.
The fact that this driver didn't pull in at a designated point make it a clear case of driving without due consideration. Did the drive give you any details? If he didn't, then this becomes leaving the scene of an accident, even if he stopped and spoke to you.
Hope all goes well.To err is human, but to make a real balls up takes a super computer.0 -
Its good that you are okay, bummer about your bike. Agree that many motorists have a slightly psycopathic response to a downed cyclist or motorcyclist (I was asked to hop to the side of the road when nearly passing out from the pain of a pilon fracture, for example, because I was "blocking traffic").
However.... you expected him to stop and move over, he expected you to stop and move over; neither of you did. If two cars collide on a single track road in these circumstances, it would be fairly unusual for blame to be apportioned anything more than 50/50. Perhaps the police or his motor insurer will come to a different conclusion because you were as far over as you could be and he wasn't, but I wouldn't get your hopes up.0 -
However.... you expected him to stop and move over, he expected you to stop and move over; neither of you did. If two cars collide on a single track road in these circumstances, it would be fairly unusual for blame to be apportioned anything more than 50/50.
I disagree. The OP stated that the van had passed a pull-in, which drivers are meant to pull into and yield. Drivers are also requested to give consideration to vulnerable road users. This driver's actions were totally ignorant of the situation.To err is human, but to make a real balls up takes a super computer.0 -
Don't get me wrong - any reasonable person pulls into a passing place if they get to one first.However.... you expected him to stop and move over, he expected you to stop and move over; neither of you did. If two cars collide on a single track road in these circumstances, it would be fairly unusual for blame to be apportioned anything more than 50/50.
I disagree. The OP stated that the van had passed a pull-in, which drivers are meant to pull into and yield. Drivers are also requested to give consideration to vulnerable road users. This driver's actions were totally ignorant of the situation.
But whilst the driver is probably an ignorant sod, its not exactly clear cut whether the police or insurers could asses him to be any more or less in the wong than the cyclist. Morality and common sense don't necessarily carry much weight, unfortunately.0 -
Don't get me wrong - any reasonable person pulls into a passing place if they get to one first.However.... you expected him to stop and move over, he expected you to stop and move over; neither of you did. If two cars collide on a single track road in these circumstances, it would be fairly unusual for blame to be apportioned anything more than 50/50.
I disagree. The OP stated that the van had passed a pull-in, which drivers are meant to pull into and yield. Drivers are also requested to give consideration to vulnerable road users. This driver's actions were totally ignorant of the situation.
But whilst the driver is probably an ignorant sod, its not exactly clear cut whether the police or insurers could asses him to be any more or less in the wong than the cyclist. Morality and common sense don't necessarily carry much weight, unfortunately.
This is what the charge of 'driving without due consideration' is for.To err is human, but to make a real balls up takes a super computer.0 -
Well, let's hope so.
Don't get me wrong - any reasonable person pulls into a passing place if they get to one first.However.... you expected him to stop and move over, he expected you to stop and move over; neither of you did. If two cars collide on a single track road in these circumstances, it would be fairly unusual for blame to be apportioned anything more than 50/50.
I disagree. The OP stated that the van had passed a pull-in, which drivers are meant to pull into and yield. Drivers are also requested to give consideration to vulnerable road users. This driver's actions were totally ignorant of the situation.
But whilst the driver is probably an ignorant sod, its not exactly clear cut whether the police or insurers could asses him to be any more or less in the wong than the cyclist. Morality and common sense don't necessarily carry much weight, unfortunately.
This is what the charge of 'driving without due consideration' is for.
Let's be honest though - 20mph is a fairly good clip to be going at if you can see a car heading your way on a single track road without any space to squeeze through. If there really IS space, had the driver been competent/considerate, then perhaps the OP has a case.
Back to the OPs question - there is some pretty good general advice here:
viewtopic.php?f=40052&t=127229300 -
Let's be honest though - 20mph is a fairly good clip to be going at if you can see a car heading your way on a single track road without any space to squeeze through. If there really IS space, had the driver been competent/considerate, then perhaps the OP has a case.
what does the cyclists speed have to do with it though, if the cyclist stops moving completely, theres still not enough room for the car to get by if it doesnt yield more space and you can sit there and have an entertaining staring competition with each other handlebars to bonnet, but the issue is one of space, not of speed.0 -
Well that's not what happened is it?Let's be honest though - 20mph is a fairly good clip to be going at if you can see a car heading your way on a single track road without any space to squeeze through. If there really IS space, had the driver been competent/considerate, then perhaps the OP has a case.
what does the cyclists speed have to do with it though, if the cyclist stops moving completely, theres still not enough room for the car to get by if it doesnt yield more space and you can sit there and have an entertaining staring competition with each other handlebars to bonnet, but the issue is one of space, not of speed.
Besides, I'd rather have a staring competition than find myself picking bits of myself and my bike out of a hedge. In my experience, if you do slow down or stop you are less likely to have a collision, regardless of your mode of conveyance.0 -
It's a confusing world. Highway Code says give vulnerable users the space you would if overtaking a car.
I find that, when being overtaken, this happens perhaps 50% of the time. But in narrow lanes, oncoming cars seem to ignore it altogether. Odd.My blog: http://www.roubaixcycling.cc (kit reviews and other musings)
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It's a confusing world. Highway Code says give vulnerable users the space you would if overtaking a car.
I find that, when being overtaken, this happens perhaps 50% of the time. But in narrow lanes, oncoming cars seem to ignore it altogether. Odd.
Yes, they seem to assume that because they are driving a motor vehicle they automatically have the right of way.
I had a similar experience to the OP, single track country lane, moron in a private hire vehicle approaching from the opposite direction, passing place coming up on my side of the road. I think he will wait for me to reach the passing place, no he comes barrelling though at an inappropriate speed, all I could do was come to a complete stop as far to the left as possible and lean into the hedgerow and hope he didn't hit me, thankfully he didn't.
Incidents like that make me want to fit a camera to the bike. Lots drivers have never read an updated version of the highway code since they passed their driving test and/or don't think it applies to them, you know the type, "get out of the way, my journey is more important than yours, you're only on a effin bike."0 -
Thanks for the posts so far guys.
Just to clarify, I was doing 20mph when I saw the car come round the bend, I then took some speed off and at point of impact I would have been doing somewhere between 10 - 15 mph.
I've attached the street view of the scene. In the picture I was about level with the back of the greenhouse when we saw each other, I was slightly over to the right so I could see round the bend but quickly moved over when I saw him. We hit at the front end of the hedged area on the left, I ended up in the hedge, and I was at most a foot from it when hit me, so he was in the middle of the road if not over my side slightly.
He was not moving quickly when I saw him, which is why I was surprised he kept coming. And it isn't very clear on streetview, but this picture shows how much room there is on the narrow bit. Plenty of room for him to avoid me, even If I was too far over - which I was not.
This is when he had reversed back.
I went to the station this morning and filed the report, the lady officer was very helpful.
I have dropped the bike off at the shop, am I best waiting till I know the cost of repair before I contact his insurance company? The shop are looking at it Thursday.0 -
Sorry to rain on your parade, but, I am going through all this at the moment having been wiped out at a roundabout in May 2014. The "process" so far has led to the case gathering momentum and finally being approved for court a few months ago, with the car insurance saying I am 70 / 30 at fault. ( I wasn't ). I have found out this week that any court date won't be until next year now due to the length of time involved and closures of so many courts. So basically it is going to be 2 years plus after the event that I would be going to court over it.
Insurance companies will play all the games under the sun to grind you down, avoid paying out and delay the inevitable. Contact their insurance, but be prepared for the cold shoulder. I too like you did not have bike insurance and had to use work insurance in order to start the process off, but I have been brick walled pretty much all the way.0 -
Too late now but when a driver does something you wouldn't think normal behaviour I assume they are drunk.
Always call 999.I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles0 -
Hi.
As an ex messenger with my own & my mates experiences of dealing with scapes, I'll pass on hard learned experience.
If you have a scrape, always call the police. Always call the ambulance or go to A&E to get it documented. If it's documented there is no arguing. Otherwise it descends into he said/she said, & the burden of proof is on you, the cyclist, not the driver.
You nowadays have to be injured or hurt for them to even consider becoming invloved. I presume its resources driven. Even if cat like reflexes save you from iminent death, they won't be interested. Better to actually get killed if you want them on your side. I've tried [since retiring down here on the coast] reporting a close call, where a witness in a car behind actually chased down the offender & boxed him in he was so outraged. Police not interested because I wasn't hurt!
In this case you did get your injuries documented. Call the police, or go to a station to get a crime number. Insist. Make sure you, "ahem", do not understate the level of injury. Incapacity, time of work, personal injury, delayed neck injury. This is what will in the eyes of the law, make it a crime, and hence need investigating.
Get you bike checked out & cataloged by a friendly bike shop. The same "ahem" applies. The bike is probably a right off! The frame doesn't sound safe to ride to me.....
If you have a number plate, you can contact DVLA, on for a small fee get his details. Simply state you are trying to trace an owner involved in an accident. It works, I've done it before. It's why they invented number plates.
Once you have a crime number, try conacting direct to get insurance details to put in an insurance claim. If you get no response, find a claims lawyer, via a cycling friendly source.
Don't give up, it may take some time. The bloke did run you off the road. Good luck.0 -
Not any help for the OP but this and other similar posts has motivated me to join british cycling for the legal cover as i am on the bike most days of the week.0
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Phone the police on 101. Let them tell you how to proceed. Don't go to the police station first, the desk is manned by an ex-policeman, whose job is to put you off making a report.
The fact that this driver didn't pull in at a designated point make it a clear case of driving without due consideration. Did the drive give you any details? If he didn't, then this becomes leaving the scene of an accident, even if he stopped and spoke to you.
Hope all goes well.
There is absolutely no truth in that first statement whatsoever and the second is wrong.
First, as the cyclist, you don't have to report the RTC. He does however, as soon as practicable and within 24hours unless he has provided you with his insurance details at the scene, it being an injury RTC. If he didn't provide you with his insurance details, it is not leaving the scene of an RTC. It just places a burden on him to report it to the Police. If he then fails to report it, it is an offence of failing to report.
Find yourself a solicitor to get your claim going. Don't rely on his insurance (if you have the details) to just play ball with you. They will drag it out for as long as they can in the hope you will just give up.I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.0 -
Don't go to the police station first, the desk is manned by an ex-policeman, whose job is to put you off making a report.
Did the drive give you any details? If he didn't, then this becomes leaving the scene of an accident, even if he stopped and spoke to you.
Hope all goes well.
There is absolutely no truth in that first statement whatsoever and the second is wrong.
I have personal experience of the first at Bloxwich Police Station, Walsall. Fat, grey haired, desk occupier wouldn't take my report of assault, despite incident happening on a garage forecourt, where there would be cameras. Epaulettes on lazy sod were maroon, so not police, but auxiliary.
Enlighten us. What constitutes 'leaving the scene'.To err is human, but to make a real balls up takes a super computer.0 -
When dealing with the police be polite, confident and if needed firm. They are pushed for time with various competing targets and you need to be serious while making it easy for them to help you by providing what they need.0
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Don't go to the police station first, the desk is manned by an ex-policeman, whose job is to put you off making a report.
Did the drive give you any details? If he didn't, then this becomes leaving the scene of an accident, even if he stopped and spoke to you.
Hope all goes well.
There is absolutely no truth in that first statement whatsoever and the second is wrong.
I have personal experience of the first at Bloxwich Police Station, Walsall. Fat, grey haired, desk occupier wouldn't take my report of assault, despite incident happening on a garage forecourt, where there would be cameras. Epaulettes on lazy sod were maroon, so not police, but auxiliary.
Enlighten us. What constitutes 'leaving the scene'.
Ok one experience with someone who would appear (by your brief example) to have been a lazy s**. That isn't an ex copper who is just trying to fob you off as you suggested.
Leaving the scene is simply failing to stop and report. At an RTC, the driver must stop and provide the required details at the scene to anyone having reasonable cause to demand them. If they don't, they must then report the RTC to the police as soon as reasonably practicable and in any case, within 24 hours. It does not mean they have 24 hours to report it.I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.0 -
Sorry to the OP. Hope you're healing well and soon get back on the road.
Apologies again for this as it's with hindsight, but, I joined British Cycling earlier this year. £30 on a direct debit so I can forget all about it now. Best part is that I have had already £20 worth of discounts from Halfords and CRC. It's definitely worth getting.
One other thing it gives you is third party insurance. Imagine if you were responsible in some way for causing thousands of pounds worth of damage, and injuries to a third party. If you did not have insurance, the other party could sue you and quite possibly make you sell your house (if you have one) to pay for it.
Also - always expect the worse from other drivers and plan accordingly. Never make any assumptions no matter how in the right you are. And always try and have a plan B in the back of your mind.Cannondale Killer V
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Just an update and question.
I've taken the bike to the place I bought it from for an insurance quotation. They have included in the final price for the repair replacing the front derailleur and the bent crank arm. But there is other cosmetic damage that is clearly a result of the crash that I would like included such as scratched pedals, scratched shift/brake levers, saddle had a couple of nicks on it, rear wheel is out of true, rear wheel quick release . Whilst these things aren't necessary to get the bike back to working order, the bike was mint before the accident, so I don't see why I should get it back any less than the original condition. Is that not what you all would want? I don't see why this should come out of my pocket.
I need to speak to the mechanic that did the quote tomorrow, hopefully he will be okay with adding this, but the chap I spoke to in the shop said they have to be careful because they don't know if these things were a result of the crash or not. Whilst I understand this to a degree, surely if that is their reasoning I could have fabricated the whole event?
Is there a reason why I couldn't take the bike to another shop if they won't add these other items to the quote?0 -
So two vehicles moving towards each other - neither stopped and they crashed into each other.
Surely it's a shared fault ?
Why didnt you stop ?0 -
Maybe worth trying here for advice? http://legal.wiggle.co.uk/
If it doesn't work at least you can blame Wiggle
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Orbea Rise0 -
I should point out I have already got solicitor's involved.So two vehicles moving towards each other - neither stopped and they crashed into each other.
Surely it's a shared fault ?
Why didnt you stop ?
Evidently I wanted to get hit by a car :roll:
Read the thread again, or don't.0 -
You were going forwards - so was the van - neither stopped. You hit the car as much as the car hit you. Did you keep going towards the pinch point as much as the van ?
Maybe its one of those things were you had to be there to understand it ?
A broken bike is a pain in the arse - but having lost friends to wreckless drivers - it could have been far worse.0 -
You were going forwards - so was the van - neither stopped. You hit the car as much as the car hit you. Did you keep going towards the pinch point as much as the van ?
Maybe its one of those things were you had to be there to understand it ?
A broken bike is a pain in the ars* - but having lost friends to wreckless drivers - it could have been far worse.
Indeed it could have been worse. I realised that for a time, but now I am just pissed about the bike.
He could have moved over and given me plenty of room to get by but he didn't. I was already nearly brushing with the hedge when he hit me and there is a picture on the last page showing my bike on the ground and how much room there could have been after he had reversed back. His attitude stank, and the more i think about his actions and what he said to me, he was clearly trying to be awkward, but probably didn't anticipate hitting me.0 -
So. He didn't anticipate hitting you, and you didn't anticipate hitting him.
Sounds about right for an accident.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
So. He didn't anticipate hitting you, and you didn't anticipate hitting him.
Sounds about right for an accident.
What is the point you are trying to make? Drivers should just plow on regardless of whether they are likely to hit a vulnerable road user because it will be shared blame?0 -
No. They shouldn't.So. He didn't anticipate hitting you, and you didn't anticipate hitting him.
Sounds about right for an accident.
What is the point you are trying to make? Drivers should just plow on regardless of whether they are likely to hit a vulnerable road user because it will be shared blame?
And neither should cyclists.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
It's a weird one, on country lanes with on-coming traffic I only tend to slow down a bit as long as I can see a gap (clubmates often over-brake to my annoyance - IMO this is more dangerous as people behind you won't expect such an over-reaction and might steer right to avoid shunting you and then be facing the car that could easily have been avoided have no-one over-braked, but I digress...) but if I saw the car/van clearly wasn't moving over I'd start braking (and continue braking with a view to stopping before I reached it, assuming the worst that he wouldn't move over).
So yes I agree the van driver was an idiot but at the same time I wouldn't still be going 10-15mph if there was no gap in front and it could be argued if you just didn't have time to slow down that you were going too fast for the conditions.0
