105 v Ultegra...
alpineaddict
Posts: 247
I own a Kuota Kharma, several yrs old now, and it still has the stock groupset that it came with (Shimano 105 - 50-34 front and 11-28 rear). Ever since I've had the bike there has always been an issue (very small one) with the gear changing, in that it never seemed as smooth, and swift as I would have liked it... Yet I have put up with it...
Recently I've noticed it continually getting worse, and despite my best efforts at correcting the shifting, and taking it to the LBS for a gear tune up, it still seems sluggish in the change...
This has been accentuated by a recent trip to Majorca where I hired a bike with a Shimano Ultregra groupset on... The shifting was seamless, quiet and instant... As opposed to my often clunky and lagging gear changing...
So, my question is, is my sluggish gear changing just that the 105, although good, is an entry level groupset, and it will always be like that, and the Ultegra is really decent step up in smoothness, or is that that despite the LBS having a go, I've never had it all set up just right, and the upgrade is not worth it...?
Thx in advance folks
Recently I've noticed it continually getting worse, and despite my best efforts at correcting the shifting, and taking it to the LBS for a gear tune up, it still seems sluggish in the change...
This has been accentuated by a recent trip to Majorca where I hired a bike with a Shimano Ultregra groupset on... The shifting was seamless, quiet and instant... As opposed to my often clunky and lagging gear changing...
So, my question is, is my sluggish gear changing just that the 105, although good, is an entry level groupset, and it will always be like that, and the Ultegra is really decent step up in smoothness, or is that that despite the LBS having a go, I've never had it all set up just right, and the upgrade is not worth it...?
Thx in advance folks
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If you do a quick search on here ref 105 vs Ultegra you'll find millions of threads and opinions - this one is down to a matter of personal opinion I'm afraid.
De Sisti wrote:
This is one of the silliest threads I've come across.
Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour
Not much difference between the 5800 and 6800. The ultegra feels and looks better but the shifting is 99.9999% identical.
But ultimately, proper set up is the most important.
Carbon levers on the 6800 shifters compared to metal on 5800. I think that's about it?
N+1
Bianchi Via Nirone 7 Ultegra
Brompton S Type
Carrera Vengeance Ultimate Ltd
Gary Fisher Aquila '98
Front half of a Viking Saratoga Tandem
There's also different bearings, springs, etc etc - Cyclist magazine a couple of months ago did a big spread on all the differences.
I think that lever and hoods are also different shapes as well.
De Sisti wrote:
This is one of the silliest threads I've come across.
Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour
Hope this helps the debate
Don't start....
N+1
The difference between the 5700 series and 5800/6800 is night and day. 5700 can work alright, but it can be a pig to set up, especially if you have internal routing on the gear cables.
I have 10 speed 105 on my cube with internal gear cable routing and it's been an absolute pain! I've put an ultegra chain and cassette on but to no avail, next step is new gear cable!
Make sure you get the newer polymer coated cables and SP41 outers. They make a big difference.
N+1
Another option I recently read about would be to put a spacer between the hanger and the derailleur, so that the spring is more stretched out and the whole system is at a slightly higher tension.
Like I said this has all been prompted by me riding a bike with an Ultegra groups and also noticing that they are selling at half price now (Just over £400, guessing they're shifting this model before an upgrade perhaps).
The additional weight issue, is not an issue for me... I am not into racing and am just a casual rider who enjoys getting out on the bike... I am more wanting (not needing) a smooth, crisp change in my gearing... If I can achieve that with my 105 still in play the great (however, Ive not achieved this so far in the few years Ive one the bike), If it can't be done then happy to upgrade to a better setup... Which my limited knowledge tells me is the Ultegra???
Thx again all
That's just not true. The mech just does whatever the shifter tells it to via the cable.
The 105 5700 rear mech I've just fitted to my otherwise 5600 bike is shifting crisply and accurately.
Where 5700 suffers is the increased cable drag from the under bar tape routing. You can improve it by recabling using new SP41 outers with the ends cut flush and square*, and the newer polymer coated inners as used on the 5800 / 6800 etc series.
If you were to change the entire groupset the move from 5700 to 5800 is apparently dramatic, especially front shifting. Many argue that cosmetic appearances aside, if you're not chasing the last few grams of weight saving there's little point in choosing Ultegra over 105 now.
* I thought my cable cutters were doing a good job, but I just discovered how incredibly neatly you can finish the cut outers using a Dremel with a grinding wheel. Very satisfying!
Your knowledge is indeed limited young padawan - what you are seeking will come to you from Force; leave the dark side and enter the double tap world.
This^. Absolutely nothing wrong with 5700 RD or 10sp 105. How may other groupsets have you ridden to compare it to? I've the 5800 11sp - the front mech is a right pain to set up, what with it's special tool to make sure you get the cable angle right, and the rear indexing is so particular it's a censored to get it quiet. But it works fine, as does the 5700.
Just the Ultegra whilst on holiday, as mentioned above... Thx for the advice mate... Appreciate it...
Wait, 105 an entry level groupset? Pros race on Ultegra, so how does one tier down = entry level? Are there only entry level and pro level groupsets? Is that it?
Claris & Sora could be described as entry level. Tiagra and 105 as mid range, certainly not entry level.
You're probably very right... I did say my knowledge is poor when it comes to the actual mechanics of bikes... I ride a fair bit... mess around with some stuff but largely depend on the lbs to service and do other things for me... I am now wanting to increase my knowledge of the mechanics... The term 'entry level' was wrong, I was meaning more that it was the 'stock' groupset that I still have on the bike...
Anyhow, regardless of terminology, the question still remains as to whether or not it is worth the upgrade to an 'Ultegra' groupset or not... The majority seem to think not, and just get the 105 working right...
I would put it like this:
Dura Ace: Pro
Ultegra: Everything other than pro level
105: Mid level, suitable for everyone, even for racing
Tiagra: Still very good, good enough for most of us if we're honest with ourselves
Sora: Step up from entry level, good enough for most
Claris: Entry level.
One downside is it needs a hefty push to get into the big ring now. It is getting easier with time though so I suspece a strong spring rather than dodgy cable routing because thats pretty smooth when I've released everything to check it.
Aye ok, maybe not World Tour level, but I'm confident I've seen pics of sub world tour level bikes with Ultegra on them. I'm afraid I can't quite be arsed to search where I've seen it unfortunately
N+1
Or 5800 is 100% better as in goes up to 11.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xgx4k83zzc
Absolutely 100% - I have 105, Ultegra, Dura Ace, Rival and Red on different bikes and SRAM is crisper, quicker, nicer to use, nicer to look at, lighter and all round makes your ride better.
But that's just me.
De Sisti wrote:
This is one of the silliest threads I've come across.
Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour