Discuss
dennisn
Posts: 10,601
What is the difference between two pucks rubbing on a spinning metal disc to stop it's motion(disc brake) and two pucks rubbing on a spinning metal disc to stop it's motion(rim brake)? :?
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Comments
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The material of the pads.
The lifetime and replacability of the braking surface.
The distance of the braking surfaces and pads from the surface of the road and the grime there.
Hydraulics - The difference in losses due to friction of cables.
Hydraulics - self adjusting pad spacing0 -
discs
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when a disc wears out, you can replace it for not much
fancy taking it easy on a long steep twisty descent? no problem
excellent performance in the wet
uglier
heavier
rims-
when your exotic carbon rim wears out, it's expensive
long steep twisty descent? be brave or the rim may overheat expensively and/or dangerously
iffy performance in the wet
prettier
lighter
but i think you know this
my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
discs
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when a disc wears out, you can replace it for not much
fancy taking it easy on a long steep twisty descent? no problem
excellent performance in the wet
uglier
heavier
rims-
when your exotic carbon rim wears out, it's expensive
long steep twisty descent? be brave or the rim may overheat expensively and/or dangerously
iffy performance in the wet
prettier
lighter
but i think you know this
In reality I don't KNOW all of this. All the things you've mentioned may have validity or they may not. To me your lists contain pretty much what the manufacturers say in their advertisements. My impression is that they are something new, and you know cyclists when it comes to new. Gotta have it and because it's new it must be the answer. At the very least cyclists buy new to be "with it" and to be the first, pretty much without regard to whether they are getting something better than what they have.0 -
Disc brakes are not "new" but you knew that alsoAnd the people bowed and prayed, to the neon god they made.0
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You missed one of disc brakes' unique features:@Gustav_Larsson_ wrote:New brake tatto. Minutes after use, contact in millisec! Soon legal in roadbike pile-ups #discbrakes… https://t.co/aKpi6QcBIK0
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What you're saying is arguably true of, say, internal cable routing, or getting a new set of carbon handlebars with integrated stem, or moving from 10 speed to 11 speed gears, or this years slightly more aerodynamic wheel/frameset but doesn't really apply to such a fundamental change as the move from rim to disk brakes.All the things you've mentioned may have validity or they may not. To me your lists contain pretty much what the manufacturers say in their advertisements. My impression is that they are something new, and you know cyclists when it comes to new. Gotta have it and because it's new it must be the answer. At the very least cyclists buy new to be "with it" and to be the first, pretty much without regard to whether they are getting something better than what they have.
Even if disk brakes were equally as effective as rim brakes, in my opinion they'd be worth it simply for the knowledge that you aren't slowly destroying your wheel rims simply by braking.
Fortunately, they also give you better control of your braking and work better in bad conditions, in my experience.
If you don't want/need them fine - don't get a bike with discs. But something tells me you haven't even test ridden a bike with discs and so have zero basis for your theory beyond the fact that advertisers often bend the truth to sell their new products - sure, they do, but in this case the product actually is demonstrably better. If you take a test ride and don't feel the difference/feel it is worth it then fine, don't get a new bike with discs.
Personally, as an all weather commuter I was sick of having to give miles of stopping distance whenever it rained (and in fear of the need to carry out an emergency stop), so I got a new bike with disc brakes, to ride in adverse weather. I still ride the rim braked bike in good weather, but my disk-braked bike I can ride in all conditions and I go just as fast on it.0 -
Obviously much worse than chainrings, or bladed spokesYou missed one of disc brakes' unique features:@Gustav_Larsson_ wrote:New brake tatto. Minutes after use, contact in millisec! Soon legal in roadbike pile-ups #discbrakes… https://t.co/aKpi6QcBIKAnd the people bowed and prayed, to the neon god they made.0 -
Obviously much worse than chainrings, or bladed spokesYou missed one of disc brakes' unique features:@Gustav_Larsson_ wrote:New brake tatto. Minutes after use, contact in millisec! Soon legal in roadbike pile-ups #discbrakes… https://t.co/aKpi6QcBIK
Nice..0 -
What you're saying is arguably true of, say, internal cable routing, or getting a new set of carbon handlebars with integrated stem, or moving from 10 speed to 11 speed gears, or this years slightly more aerodynamic wheel/frameset but doesn't really apply to such a fundamental change as the move from rim to disk brakes.All the things you've mentioned may have validity or they may not. To me your lists contain pretty much what the manufacturers say in their advertisements. My impression is that they are something new, and you know cyclists when it comes to new. Gotta have it and because it's new it must be the answer. At the very least cyclists buy new to be "with it" and to be the first, pretty much without regard to whether they are getting something better than what they have.
Even if disk brakes were equally as effective as rim brakes, in my opinion they'd be worth it simply for the knowledge that you aren't slowly destroying your wheel rims simply by braking.
Fortunately, they also give you better control of your braking and work better in bad conditions, in my experience.
If you don't want/need them fine - don't get a bike with discs. But something tells me you haven't even test ridden a bike with discs and so have zero basis for your theory beyond the fact that advertisers often bend the truth to sell their new products - sure, they do, but in this case the product actually is demonstrably better. If you take a test ride and don't feel the difference/feel it is worth it then fine, don't get a new bike with discs.
Personally, as an all weather commuter I was sick of having to give miles of stopping distance whenever it rained (and in fear of the need to carry out an emergency stop), so I got a new bike with disc brakes, to ride in adverse weather. I still ride the rim braked bike in good weather, but my disk-braked bike I can ride in all conditions and I go just as fast on it.
Don't get me wrong. I have pretty much no real opinion on either(and yes, I haven't tried them). Right now I have a set of DA9000's. On my really old bike(early 70's) I've still got the original set of Suntour Superbe Pro stoppers. There is a difference, of course, but nothing to get overly excited about. Anyway, if I'm still riding when I'm 80(15 years) I'll most likely have no choice but to ride discs, and that's OK. To me they ALL do the job they are meant to do. Stop the bike.0 -
It's all about the lovely, lovely wet weather performance
If you're a (mostly) fair weather summer rider you don't need them...else they'll change your life for the better.
Best thing I've ever bought is a bike with hydraulic discs...oh an one with full mudguard mounts an room for wide tyres...perfect commuter and all round bike 0 -
To me they ALL do the job they are meant to do. Stop the bike.
You're right, it's just that disc brakes do it faster.__________________
"I keep getting eureaka moments ... followed very quickly by embarrassment when someone points out I'm a plank"
Scott Genius MC 30 RIP
Nukeproof Mega AM 275 Comp
Cube LTD Rigid Commuter
Ribble 7005 Sportive0 -
A plus point is disk brake = lighter rim, so in effect less rotating mass at the edge of the wheel so quicker to climb.
A minus is heavier hub weight with rotor at hub means 'consumer new cyclists' do the lift test and find the bike heavy.
A plus for disc is no god awful brake block residue inside forks and on carpet on wet days.
A minus for disc is tingling rotors on long climbs - often happens on mountain bikes, but hidden by the terrain noise/knobbly tyres.
I personally see no need for disc on road and expect it to last a couple of years or see it firmly encamped in endurance/ sportive sales only on defy/synapse etal witth 'race' bikes staying caliper.0 -
What's tingling rotors (rotors making a nice relaxing noise?).__________________
"I keep getting eureaka moments ... followed very quickly by embarrassment when someone points out I'm a plank"
Scott Genius MC 30 RIP
Nukeproof Mega AM 275 Comp
Cube LTD Rigid Commuter
Ribble 7005 Sportive0 -
What's tingling rotors (rotors making a nice relaxing noise?).
A rubbing rotor, usually once on rotation. A ting / tingling noise is how I have come to describe it. Geddit ???
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Discuss
NO"You really think you can burn off sugar with exercise?" downhill paul0 -
Thanx. I needed that. Made my day. 0 -
Thanx. I needed that. Made my day.
Don't mention it! "You really think you can burn off sugar with exercise?" downhill paul0 -
Quick poll. How many of you have actually completely worn out a set of rims before deciding that you want a different set of fancy wheels and flogged them on or 'retired' them to the spares bin?0
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Quick poll. How many of you have actually completely worn out a set of rims before deciding that you want a different set of fancy wheels and flogged them on or 'retired' them to the spares bin?
Never wore out a set. At least that I know of. It's always been about getting "something new" for me, or building a new set. Not because I necessarily needed them. Just wanted to do it. Most of my bike purchases are NOT because I needed something.0 -
In reality I don't KNOW all of this. All the things you've mentioned may have validity or they may not. To me your lists contain pretty much what the manufacturers say in their advertisements. My impression is that they are something new, and you know cyclists when it comes to new. Gotta have it and because it's new it must be the answer. At the very least cyclists buy new to be "with it" and to be the first, pretty much without regard to whether they are getting something better than what they have.
soz
i have used both, for commute/touring, i'd go for discs every time, the power/consistency in all weather conditions is really streets ahead of rim brakes, makes it safer when there's heavy traffic/pedestrians/whatever as you don't get the pause before they bite that wet rim brakes suffer from
on a road bike, aside from making life easier on long, steep, twisty descents, i don't see much else in their favour to offset the extra weight/drag/bulk
for new shiny, i'm waiting for sram to release their wireless groupset, i'm still on red and the battery, junction box and cables of the current shimano/campag systems would just be plain ugly on my bike, wireless will be really cleanmy bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
[quote="sungodi'd go for discs every time, the power/consistency in all weather conditions is really streets ahead of rim brakes, makes it safer when there's heavy traffic/pedestrians/whatever as you don't get the pause before they bite that wet rim brakes suffer from[/quote]
I take it you've not tried Mavic's Exalith yet? I've got bikes with normal alu tracks, carbon tracks (Zipp 303 FC), discs (MTB hydraulic) and Exalith 2 on RSYS-SLR's. In the wet (and we're talking really heavy rain) with properly set brakes and pads the latter will stop me just as well as the discs.0 -
[quote="sungodi'd go for discs every time, the power/consistency in all weather conditions is really streets ahead of rim brakes, makes it safer when there's heavy traffic/pedestrians/whatever as you don't get the pause before they bite that wet rim brakes suffer from
I take it you've not tried Mavic's Exalith yet? I've got bikes with normal alu tracks, carbon tracks (Zipp 303 FC), discs (MTB hydraulic) and Exalith 2 on RSYS-SLR's. In the wet (and we're talking really heavy rain) with properly set brakes and pads the latter will stop me just as well as the discs.[/quote]
I have an older pair of Mavic Ceramic coated rims. Work damn good in the wet and on long descents.0 -
A plus point is disk brake = lighter rim, so in effect less rotating mass at the edge of the wheel so quicker to climb.
Where the mass is has no significance climbing.0 -
I take it you've not tried Mavic's Exalith yet? I've got bikes with normal alu tracks, carbon tracks (Zipp 303 FC), discs (MTB hydraulic) and Exalith 2 on RSYS-SLR's. In the wet (and we're talking really heavy rain) with properly set brakes and pads the latter will stop me just as well as the discs.
i've got some exalith wheels, cosmic carbone slr (2010/2011), the braking in the wet is better than plain rims, but exalith is still far outperformed by even basic mechanical discs (avid bb5 which i also had at the time), plus the discs don't eat brake pads the way exalith doesmy bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
A plus point is disk brake = lighter rim, so in effect less rotating mass at the edge of the wheel so quicker to climb.
A minus is heavier hub weight with rotor at hub means 'consumer new cyclists' do the lift test and find the bike heavy.
A plus for disc is no god awful brake block residue inside forks and on carpet on wet days.
A minus for disc is tingling rotors on long climbs - often happens on mountain bikes, but hidden by the terrain noise/knobbly tyres.
I personally see no need for disc on road and expect it to last a couple of years or see it firmly encamped in endurance/ sportive sales only on defy/synapse etal witth 'race' bikes staying caliper.
FWIW. I think that is ALL mountains from anthills. Much ado about nothing.0 -
Maybe my thoughts on this also sort of cover bike frames, components, tires, and wheels. Each year we seem to hear pretty much the same old stuff from manufactures. This frame is 12% stiffer than last years. Our brake set has 17% better modulation than the competition. Our new fork design has 11% more steering fluidity than last year. Well, you get the picture. Every year ALL these things get better by leaps and bounds. I've heard all this kind of hype since the 70's, and I'm sure that in the decades previous to that it wasn't much different. By now we should be living in that perfect bicycle world but....... Hence my sarcasm and disbelief of a lot of the claims. Many of them are just that - claims.0
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What's tingling rotors (rotors making a nice relaxing noise?).
A rubbing rotor, usually once on rotation. A ting / tingling noise is how I have come to describe it. Geddit ???
I geddit but if your rotor is rubbing on the pad then somethings not right :?__________________
"I keep getting eureaka moments ... followed very quickly by embarrassment when someone points out I'm a plank"
Scott Genius MC 30 RIP
Nukeproof Mega AM 275 Comp
Cube LTD Rigid Commuter
Ribble 7005 Sportive0 -
for new shiny, i'm waiting for sram to release their wireless groupset, i'm still on red and the battery, junction box and cables of the current shimano/campag systems would just be plain ugly on my bike, wireless will be really clean
I'm waiting for SRAM too, but for a different reason.0 -
[quote="sungodi'd go for discs every time, the power/consistency in all weather conditions is really streets ahead of rim brakes, makes it safer when there's heavy traffic/pedestrians/whatever as you don't get the pause before they bite that wet rim brakes suffer from
I take it you've not tried Mavic's Exalith yet? I've got bikes with normal alu tracks, carbon tracks (Zipp 303 FC), discs (MTB hydraulic) and Exalith 2 on RSYS-SLR's. In the wet (and we're talking really heavy rain) with properly set brakes and pads the latter will stop me just as well as the discs.
I have an older pair of Mavic Ceramic coated rims. Work damn good in the wet and on long descents.[/quote]
You must be a lot lighter than me
I find rim brakes are poor compared to hydraulic disc brakes and much more so in the wet. It's the lack of control and power that is the problem I have with rim brakes. Must be coming from mountain biking and being used to big grippy tyres and disc brakes.0
