RT-90, Viner Minus 0.6 or other?
springtide9
Posts: 1,731
After a very expensive trip for a coffee with a friend, my Planet X N2A has gone and also now in search of a new bike! Luckily, it is partly insured, even of not for the full value.
I very much liked the N2A... not the most comfortable bike to ride in many ways on the road, but very enjoyable all the same. Yes it was very stiff, stitchy and more of a Crit bike, but lots of fun that brought a big smile on my face every time I rode it.
I've been looking at the RT-90 or Viner as a replacement.. looking at the frames, they seem as people have pointed out, identical.
On the PX site they state:
"The RT-90 is the frame of choice for Planet X Team Carnac and Zappi's Pro cycling. Designed by former UCI pro-rider Jamie Burrow it has been torture tested by our own bike teams and has benefited from hundreds of hours of team rider input."
As previously mentioned, someone stated it was generic frame from China, but the above doesn't seem to imply that?
Also more confusingly, even the reviews on Bikeradar, the reviews of the RT-90 (3.5 stars) and Viner 0.6 (4.5 stars) get very different reviews...
I could stretch to the disc version of the RT-90, although I have a new pair of wheels that arrived yesterday for my N2A that need a home, and probably want to have another go at a few crits next year, which rules it out. Which probably means £2500 is my very top limit (but would prefer £2k)
I very much liked the N2A... not the most comfortable bike to ride in many ways on the road, but very enjoyable all the same. Yes it was very stiff, stitchy and more of a Crit bike, but lots of fun that brought a big smile on my face every time I rode it.
I've been looking at the RT-90 or Viner as a replacement.. looking at the frames, they seem as people have pointed out, identical.
On the PX site they state:
"The RT-90 is the frame of choice for Planet X Team Carnac and Zappi's Pro cycling. Designed by former UCI pro-rider Jamie Burrow it has been torture tested by our own bike teams and has benefited from hundreds of hours of team rider input."
As previously mentioned, someone stated it was generic frame from China, but the above doesn't seem to imply that?
Also more confusingly, even the reviews on Bikeradar, the reviews of the RT-90 (3.5 stars) and Viner 0.6 (4.5 stars) get very different reviews...
I could stretch to the disc version of the RT-90, although I have a new pair of wheels that arrived yesterday for my N2A that need a home, and probably want to have another go at a few crits next year, which rules it out. Which probably means £2500 is my very top limit (but would prefer £2k)
Simon
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Comments
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Consider the FM-066 from Hongfu in China, same dimensions but higher spec carbon. I have the FM-069 and it’s excellent. The Planet X bikes are just open mould frames from China by the looks as they came after the China bikes. It's a Cervelo copy.0
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Consider the FM-066 from Hongfu in China, same dimensions but higher spec carbon. I have the FM-069 and it’s excellent. The Planet X bikes are just open mould frames from China by the looks as they came after the China bikes. It's a Cervelo copy.
Thanks, but I'm not really after an unbranded bike and building up myself... happy for a custom build, but a build done by a company. Another requirement is SRAMSimon0 -
The RT-90 and Viner Mitus 0.6 are exactly the same frame painted different colours.
Planet X. Bought Viner so Viner are no longer Italian made despite still having the Italian flag on the frame
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Sorry I know you said SRAM but this might be worth considering also if you like the Planet X bikes: https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/road/ultimate/ultimate-cf-slx-8-0.html0
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If in doubt, buy the orange one.My blog: http://www.roubaixcycling.cc (kit reviews and other musings)
https://twitter.com/roubaixcc
Facebook? No. Just say no.0 -
Sorry I know you said SRAM but this might be worth considering also if you like the Planet X bikes: https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/road/ultimate/ultimate-cf-slx-8-0.html
I do like the Canyons (but don't understand the model numbers???).. very tempting... looking online, the Cannondale SuperSix Evo can also be purchased wit Red for ~£2300 (discounted)
What I cant find is the geometry of my N2A.. well I have found one and it states for a large:
Stack (mm) 395
Reach (mm) 562
But for the Canyon
Stack (mm) 579
Reach (mm) 395
So I think the picture I have found for the N2A frame spec must have these the wrong way around for the N2A as the Nanolight is:
http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/FRPXNANFAF/planet-x-nanolight-carbon-road-frameset#reviewstab
I was happy with the N2A geometry, although I did have to resort to a 90mm stem and 10mm spacer under the stem... so wouldn't want anything more aggressive.Simon0 -
If in doubt, buy the orange one.
Funny you say that, as my N2A was the Team Guru Blue, so very bold and bright! The paint scheme wouldn't have looked out of place on a classic VW Bettle!
I would hope that most of these bikes would be pretty good. And it is that which is pulling me toward the RT-90 (yellow and blue). The stealth black look I thought went out in 2013??Simon0 -
What my bike fitter will do is set you up before you buy a bike and then advise which size is best and then when you buy the bike he’ll fit you to the bike. If spending that type of cash it’s worth considering.0
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What my bike fitter will do is set you up before you buy a bike and then advise which size is best and then when you buy the bike he’ll fit you to the bike. If spending that type of cash it’s worth considering.
I have thought of that. I have already had a fit although a few years ago, but the setup was fairly relaxed.
When moving to the N2A (frame transplant), the setup was mostly duplicated, with the exception of the reach/drop, which was more aggressive and not helped by the fact I have long legs and short body.
To help with this, I had to run a 90mm stem.. which made handling a little sensitive, but I got used to it quickly... but wouldn't want to run anything shorter.
The RT-90 geometry looks very close to the N2A, that is if the reach/drop figures are switched as I suspect, and also looks similar to the Canyon U.Simon0 -
If in doubt, buy the orange one.
Funny you say that, as my N2A was the Team Guru Blue, so very bold and bright! The paint scheme wouldn't have looked out of place on a classic VW Bettle!
I would hope that most of these bikes would be pretty good. And it is that which is pulling me toward the RT-90 (yellow and blue). The stealth black look I thought went out in 2013??
IF you buy the orange one you will also need, I am afraid, Orange Giro SLX Empire's. They are gorgeous.My blog: http://www.roubaixcycling.cc (kit reviews and other musings)
https://twitter.com/roubaixcc
Facebook? No. Just say no.0 -
Sorry I know you said SRAM but this might be worth considering also if you like the Planet X bikes: https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/road/ultimate/ultimate-cf-slx-8-0.html
I do like the Canyons (but don't understand the model numbers???).. very tempting... looking online, the Cannondale SuperSix Evo can also be purchased wit Red for ~£2300 (discounted)
What I cant find is the geometry of my N2A.. well I have found one and it states for a large:
Stack (mm) 395
Reach (mm) 562
But for the Canyon
Stack (mm) 579
Reach (mm) 395
So I think the picture I have found for the N2A frame spec must have these the wrong way around for the N2A as the Nanolight is:
http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/FRPXNANFAF/planet-x-nanolight-carbon-road-frameset#reviewstab
I was happy with the N2A geometry, although I did have to resort to a 90mm stem and 10mm spacer under the stem... so wouldn't want anything more aggressive.
If you resorted to a 90mm stem on your previous bike on a large then that would suggest that in terms of reach the frame was on the large size for you. I think for a better fit with a more appropriate sized stem you need the stack/reach ratio to be above 1.5 (it is lower for the planet x figures quoted above - which are the wrong way around). If the above figures are correct then you are maybe better off on a medium sized ultimate - you may have few spacers on or canyon endurance (large). Bear in mind I am guessing just using the info you have given.0 -
Sorry I know you said SRAM but this might be worth considering also if you like the Planet X bikes: https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/road/ultimate/ultimate-cf-slx-8-0.html
I do like the Canyons (but don't understand the model numbers???).. very tempting... looking online, the Cannondale SuperSix Evo can also be purchased wit Red for ~£2300 (discounted)
What I cant find is the geometry of my N2A.. well I have found one and it states for a large:
Stack (mm) 395
Reach (mm) 562
But for the Canyon
Stack (mm) 579
Reach (mm) 395
So I think the picture I have found for the N2A frame spec must have these the wrong way around for the N2A as the Nanolight is:
http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/FRPXNANFAF/planet-x-nanolight-carbon-road-frameset#reviewstab
I was happy with the N2A geometry, although I did have to resort to a 90mm stem and 10mm spacer under the stem... so wouldn't want anything more aggressive.
If you resorted to a 90mm stem on your previous bike on a large then that would suggest that in terms of reach the frame was on the large size for you. I think for a better fit with a more appropriate sized stem you need the stack/reach ratio to be above 1.5 (it is lower for the planet x figures quoted above - which are the wrong way around). If the above figures are correct then you are maybe better off on a medium sized ultimate - you may have few spacers on or canyon endurance (large). Bear in mind I am guessing just using the info you have given.
Well the thing is, with the Large on the N2A, I needed the post above it's maximum height position... so no option to go smaller. It's the problem of long legs, short body. I also have similar issues on most bikes unfortunately (on my cross bike, I have a seat to bar drop of 160mm)
The thing with the fit, given a little time, you can convince your body to get back into shape for a more aggressive position.
I noticed this riding the N2A in the summer and my Cross winter (built up as winter); come the switch over is hard on the old back and arms, but after a few rides your core builds up the strength again.
The N2A was also a really harsh ride - used to compare it to a Caterham 7 - fun yes, comfortable no. To be fair, the N2A was designed as a Crit bike and not for riding 100 miles onSimon0 -
If you have long legs and a shorter torso - then the aggressive geometry bike with a larger drop also increases the effective reach (unless you are prepared to put up with additional spacers). The Cannondale Synapse - which is a pro tour bike and possibly the most garlanded new bike from last year (BOTY for a number of magazine) would provide an appropriate fit. The Giant TCR - another pro tour bike appears to have significant stack in comparison to its reach. I think the two bikes mentioned would size up with an appropriate stem length without recourse to significant spacers.0
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If you have long legs and a shorter torso - then the aggressive geometry bike with a larger drop also increases the effective reach (unless you are prepared to put up with additional spacers). The Cannondale Synapse - which is a pro tour bike and possibly the most garlanded new bike from last year (BOTY for a number of magazine) would provide an appropriate fit. The Giant TCR - another pro tour bike appears to have significant stack in comparison to its reach. I think the two bikes mentioned would size up with an appropriate stem length without recourse to significant spacers.
@letap73, you are very right. I am always very stretched on most bikes, but even on my older PX SL I had to slam the stem as there was too much flex otherwise. With the N2A and XLS (cross), I generally used a 10mm headset spacer as a compromise.
Will take a look at the Synapse. A friend of a friend was riding one last weekend (carbon disc version) up in Yorkshire and it looked lovely. I just don't know if I can ride a Sportives bike anymore, as used to the riding position of the aggressive bikes. I did 85 miles / 9K feet climbing in Yorkshire last weekend, and very comfortable on the bike, and fine the next day.
I'm unsure, do I need a less aggressive bike, or maybe wait until I'm 50? (or 60 as 46 now!)Simon0 -
The term sportive bike is a complete misnomer - the synapse was used extensively by Sagan when he rode for Cannondale last year. The Cervelo R3 (R5 if you can afford it) has more stack height for a given reach than certain "aggressive fit" bikes. I have the same problem as you to slam the stem on my cannondale would result in a similar saddle to bar drop not akin to Adam Hansons:
If you are up in Yorkshire than I would recommend cycledivision who offer a free guru fit with every bike they sell plus some rather tasty discounts0 -
The term sportive bike is a complete misnomer - the synapse was used extensively by Sagan when he rode for Cannondale last year. The Cervelo R3 (R5 if you can afford it) has more stack height for a given reach than certain "aggressive fit" bikes. I have the same problem as you to slam the stem on my cannondale would result in a similar saddle to bar drop not akin to Adam Hansons:
If you are up in Yorkshire than I would recommend cycledivision who offer a free guru fit with every bike they sell plus some rather tasty discounts
I'm actually in Bristol, but was on Tour!
I see our point... photos looks like my bikes!Simon0 -
If you have long legs and a shorter torso - then the aggressive geometry bike with a larger drop also increases the effective reach (unless you are prepared to put up with additional spacers). The Cannondale Synapse - which is a pro tour bike and possibly the most garlanded new bike from last year (BOTY for a number of magazine) would provide an appropriate fit. The Giant TCR - another pro tour bike appears to have significant stack in comparison to its reach. I think the two bikes mentioned would size up with an appropriate stem length without recourse to significant spacers.
@letap73, you are very right. I am always very stretched on most bikes, but even on my older PX SL I had to slam the stem as there was too much flex otherwise. With the N2A and XLS (cross), I generally used a 10mm headset spacer as a compromise.
Will take a look at the Synapse. A friend of a friend was riding one last weekend (carbon disc version) up in Yorkshire and it looked lovely. I just don't know if I can ride a Sportives bike anymore, as used to the riding position of the aggressive bikes. I did 85 miles / 9K feet climbing in Yorkshire last weekend, and very comfortable on the bike, and fine the next day.
I'm unsure, do I need a less aggressive bike, or maybe wait until I'm 50? (or 60 as 46 now!)
What's your budget? Because why not get a custom, made-to-measure frame built?0 -
If you have long legs and a shorter torso - then the aggressive geometry bike with a larger drop also increases the effective reach (unless you are prepared to put up with additional spacers). The Cannondale Synapse - which is a pro tour bike and possibly the most garlanded new bike from last year (BOTY for a number of magazine) would provide an appropriate fit. The Giant TCR - another pro tour bike appears to have significant stack in comparison to its reach. I think the two bikes mentioned would size up with an appropriate stem length without recourse to significant spacers.
@letap73, you are very right. I am always very stretched on most bikes, but even on my older PX SL I had to slam the stem as there was too much flex otherwise. With the N2A and XLS (cross), I generally used a 10mm headset spacer as a compromise.
Will take a look at the Synapse. A friend of a friend was riding one last weekend (carbon disc version) up in Yorkshire and it looked lovely. I just don't know if I can ride a Sportives bike anymore, as used to the riding position of the aggressive bikes. I did 85 miles / 9K feet climbing in Yorkshire last weekend, and very comfortable on the bike, and fine the next day.
I'm unsure, do I need a less aggressive bike, or maybe wait until I'm 50? (or 60 as 46 now!)
What's your budget? Because why not get a custom, made-to-measure frame built?
Probably top end budget is £2500, but would prefer to spend closer to £2000 - which I think rules out a custom build.Simon0 -
If you have long legs and a shorter torso - then the aggressive geometry bike with a larger drop also increases the effective reach (unless you are prepared to put up with additional spacers). The Cannondale Synapse - which is a pro tour bike and possibly the most garlanded new bike from last year (BOTY for a number of magazine) would provide an appropriate fit. The Giant TCR - another pro tour bike appears to have significant stack in comparison to its reach. I think the two bikes mentioned would size up with an appropriate stem length without recourse to significant spacers.
@letap73, you are very right. I am always very stretched on most bikes, but even on my older PX SL I had to slam the stem as there was too much flex otherwise. With the N2A and XLS (cross), I generally used a 10mm headset spacer as a compromise.
Will take a look at the Synapse. A friend of a friend was riding one last weekend (carbon disc version) up in Yorkshire and it looked lovely. I just don't know if I can ride a Sportives bike anymore, as used to the riding position of the aggressive bikes. I did 85 miles / 9K feet climbing in Yorkshire last weekend, and very comfortable on the bike, and fine the next day.
I'm unsure, do I need a less aggressive bike, or maybe wait until I'm 50? (or 60 as 46 now!)
What's your budget? Because why not get a custom, made-to-measure frame built?
Probably top end budget is £2500, but would prefer to spend closer to £2000 - which I think rules out a custom build.
Is that for the whole bike?0 -
If you have long legs and a shorter torso - then the aggressive geometry bike with a larger drop also increases the effective reach (unless you are prepared to put up with additional spacers). The Cannondale Synapse - which is a pro tour bike and possibly the most garlanded new bike from last year (BOTY for a number of magazine) would provide an appropriate fit. The Giant TCR - another pro tour bike appears to have significant stack in comparison to its reach. I think the two bikes mentioned would size up with an appropriate stem length without recourse to significant spacers.
@letap73, you are very right. I am always very stretched on most bikes, but even on my older PX SL I had to slam the stem as there was too much flex otherwise. With the N2A and XLS (cross), I generally used a 10mm headset spacer as a compromise.
Will take a look at the Synapse. A friend of a friend was riding one last weekend (carbon disc version) up in Yorkshire and it looked lovely. I just don't know if I can ride a Sportives bike anymore, as used to the riding position of the aggressive bikes. I did 85 miles / 9K feet climbing in Yorkshire last weekend, and very comfortable on the bike, and fine the next day.
I'm unsure, do I need a less aggressive bike, or maybe wait until I'm 50? (or 60 as 46 now!)
What's your budget? Because why not get a custom, made-to-measure frame built?
Probably top end budget is £2500, but would prefer to spend closer to £2000 - which I think rules out a custom build.
Is that for the whole bike?
Yes, although could exclude wheels and tyres.... a new set arrived the day my bike was stolen! I guess I should be thankful I hadn't fitted them yet!Simon0 -
Looks like they stole your bike off flickr too
Advocate of disc brakes.0 -
Looks like they stole your bike off flickr too
Yes I noticed that .. did think about fixing it, but maybe its funnier to leave it as it is!Simon0 -
Went for a Cannondale in the end....
Supersix Evo HM Red Racing Edition
http://www.cannondale.com/nam_en/2015/bikes/road/elite-road/supersix-evo/supersix-evo-hi-mod-red-racing-edition
Could they have not made the name any longer?
Highly discounted (35% off) 2015 modelSimon0 -
Sorry I know you said SRAM but this might be worth considering also if you like the Planet X bikes: https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/road/ultimate/ultimate-cf-slx-8-0.html
I do like the Canyons (but don't understand the model numbers???).. very tempting....
I just picked one up for £1900 by paying in Euro instead of £.0 -
A bargain price -enjoy!Went for a Cannondale in the end....
Supersix Evo HM Red Racing Edition
http://www.cannondale.com/nam_en/2015/bikes/road/elite-road/supersix-evo/supersix-evo-hi-mod-red-racing-edition
Could they have not made the name any longer?
Highly discounted (35% off) 2015 model0
