Differences in Crash Damage Reports from LBS's

wolfsbane2k

Hi.

Following a crash, I'm now into a tit for tat basis with the driver.
I took the bike to a LBS, got one list of bits requiring realacement.
He took it to his LBS, got a shorter list of bits requiring replacement.

So, after he got someone to repair it, I rode it and instantly knew something was wrong. Rather than go back to his LBS due to distance, I told him I wasn't happy with the bike and wanted it repaired properly, but he has refused to pay for anything more.

Therefore, I've taken it to a 3rd shop (My insurer recommended/accredited) and they picked up on a whole bunch of additional stuff that the first shop didn't pick up on despite saying they checked it, and the second shop said they checked but it wasn't a problem.

I'm at the "just pay it" stage as I want a working bike back, and will claim it back from his insurer, but since he's not admitting liability to his insurer, but I feel at risk at the moment as to the insurance company might say and pay, if/(when, hopefully) they finally admit liability.


How much do you guys trust a LBS's assessment of crash damage?

Ta!

Oldfield

I'm confused. You took it to a shop, they said xxx needed doing?
You let him take it to a different shop and they said xx needed doing, less than the first place?

Then you let him get it "repaired" by his chosen, cheaper shop?

cooldad

So either deal with your insurer, and let them recover, or deal with his. But at this point you've probably both muddied the waters a bit.

wolfsbane2k

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19658946#p19658946]Oldfield[/url] wrote:

I'm confused. You took it to a shop, they said xxx needed doing?
You let him take it to a different shop and they said xx needed doing, less than the first place?

Then you let him get it "repaired" by his chosen, cheaper shop?

No, I let him get the bike inspected by his rep, who then did the work to fix the parts without my authority.

wolfsbane2k

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19658987#p19658987]cooldad[/url] wrote:

So either deal with your insurer, and let them recover, or deal with his. But at this point you've probably both muddied the waters a bit.

He wanted to do it without dealing his insurer, as it was expected to be less than his excess - £200 from my inspection.

I'm not insured for an accident, but the legal protection team had a list of approved LBS's from somewhere that they suggested I take it too.

I'm aware I've muddied the waters, so it'll get messy, but only because he got the bike "fixed" without my approval.

cooldad

Forgetting the 'insurer approved' shop, which will be used to doing plenty of unnecessary work on the insurer's dime, what was the actual difference between your shop and his?

wolfsbane2k

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p19659080]cooldad[/url] wrote:

Forgetting the 'insurer approved' shop, which will be used to doing plenty of unnecessary work on the insurer's dime, what was the actual difference between your shop and his?

Cranks, bottom braxket, hanger, derailleur.pedals.
So £160 Inc fitting.

apreading

What did his shop fix?

apreading

And what extra does the insurer's shop suggest?

wolfsbane2k

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19659178#p19659178]apreading[/url] wrote:

What did his shop fix?

Checked alignment, ReBent outer chainring (badly), replacement middle chainring (yet still out of true), trued front wheel.

apreading

Bit more info on your other thread here: viewtopic.php?f=40038&t=13032769&p=19653545#p19653545

Sounds like you do need new cranks, and possibly bottom bracket.
Dont know about pedals - do they seem OK?
What is wrong with the derailleur and hanger? Is it changing gear OK? Were they badly bent?

wolfsbane2k

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19659196#p19659196]apreading[/url] wrote:

Bit more info on your other thread here: viewtopic.php?f=40038&t=13032769&p=19653545#p19653545

Sounds like you do need new cranks, and possibly bottom bracket.
Dont know about pedals - do they seem OK?
What is wrong with the derailleur and hanger? Is it changing gear OK? Were they badly bent?

Yeah. This one was meant to be about how much people trust their lbs rather than the details :-)

Yes, the rear rd is visibly bent, is well out of alignment, and doesn't change gear at all well.
Can't get to the picture I took of it last week at the moment

apreading

Sounds like you should trust YOUR LBS. What extra did the insurer's one suggest?

wolfsbane2k

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19659205#p19659205]apreading[/url] wrote:

Sounds like you should trust YOUR LBS. What extra did the insurer's one suggest?

I did, which is why I was very paised about him being the work done and declaring 'all fixed: without giving me the list


Seat (which I knew was previously broken), notched headtube, bent handlebar and stem, and bent shock.

The Rookie

What is a notched headtube?

Simple approach, phone him up and tell him straight that he gets his LBS to finish the job properly or you'll take it through the insurance.

wolfsbane2k

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19659268#p19659268]The Rookie[/url] wrote:

What is a notched headtube?

Simple approach, phone him up and tell him straight that he gets his LBS to finish the job properly or you'll take it through the insurance.

I'm already at the insurance stage, which is why I had to get yet another written inspection to confirm that the fixing be had done wasn't sufficient.

paul.skibum

If you arent paying get the insurance approved shop to fix anything they want. F**k it, not your problem how much it costs right?

WhyteSky

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19659530#p19659530]paul.skibum[/url] wrote:

If you arent paying get the insurance approved shop to fix anything they want. F**k it, not your problem how much it costs right?

But it sounds like the driver is now denying liability so the OP is worried that they'll be lumbered with a bill for repairs for a collision that wasn't their fault.

His excess is only payable for claims to repair damage to his own vehicle. An excess doesn't apply for third party damage or injury.

If he's now denying liability then he may have shot himself in the foot anyway by having repairs carried out to your bike, thus indirectly admitting liability. Furthermore, regardless of fault and regardless of whether he was going to pay it himself or pit it through his insurance, he has a duty to report the incident to them regardless.

If you haven't got his insurance details then get them and write to them, with a copy to him, stating what happened, what has happened since, that you hold him responsible and that all costs will be claimed from the insurers. You're currently without a bicycle and will hire one in x days if the issue is not resolved and the hire costs will also be claimed. Also point out that your only concern was to have your bike fixed so that you are no worse off than before the collision and that you weren't concerned about claiming for your injuries because you just wanted the matter closed ASAP. However, as the claim is dragging on you see little benefit in not claiming for your injuries as it seems to have little bearing how long it is going to take to settle the claim.

In all honesty, it's gone far enough and I'd push them for a replacement bike, not just repairs.

Good luck and keep us updated. If you need help with the wording of the letter then draft one and PM it to me (omitting personal details). I'm about to head to Scotland for a couple of days then the depths of mid Wales so it may take me a day or two to respond.

The Rookie

Any claim is against the driver which the insurer may pay, there is no direct claim against his insurer.

wolfsbane2k

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19659767#p19659767]WhyteSky[/url] wrote:

But it sounds like the driver is now denying liability so the OP is worried that they'll be lumbered with a bill for repairs for a collision that wasn't their fault.

f he's now denying liability then he may have shot himself in the foot anyway by having repairs carried out to your bike, thus indirectly admitting liability. Furthermore, regardless of fault and regardless of whether he was going to pay it himself or pit it through his insurance, he has a duty to report the incident to them regardless.

If you haven't got his insurance details then get them and write to them, with a copy to him, stating what happened, what has happened since, that you hold him responsible and that all costs will be claimed from the insurers. You're currently without a bicycle and will hire one in x days if the issue is not resolved and the hire costs will also be claimed. Also point out that your only concern was to have your bike fixed so that you are no worse off than before the collision and that you weren't concerned about claiming for your injuries because you just wanted the matter closed ASAP. However, as the claim is dragging on you see little benefit in not claiming for your injuries as it seems to have little bearing how long it is going to take to settle the claim.

In all honesty, it's gone far enough and I'd push them for a replacement bike, not just repairs.

Good luck and keep us updated. If you need help with the wording of the letter then draft one and PM it to me (omitting personal details). I'm about to head to Scotland for a couple of days then the depths of mid Wales so it may take me a day or two to respond.

Thanks for the offer of assistance, it's appreciated - I wrote such a letter last night before I read your response, however it devolved into a "tit for tat" basis, which was very cathartic, but completely unprofessional, so needs a re-write tonight into a formal "Notice of Claim".

A formal denial of liability would be useful, however the driver is ignoring all calls and letters from their insurer, so the insurer's arent' doing anything until they hear from them, which is why it's driving me fing mad. A denial would at least be something - especially as I have an admission of liability in SMS form.

As you say - I'm currently out of pocket for the 2 bike inspections (1 at time of accident, 1 after his shop "repaired" the damage to determine what's still wrong with it), approx. £160 is needed for new parts, and that's not including any time wasted dealing with it (close to 20 hours now, all documented) - I love smart phones that log calls and sms's in an easily exportable, printable format )

I was willing to deal with it outside of the insurers without PI just to get it back ASAP, despite the accident re-awakening some old sporting injuries, but given what feels like deliberate time wasting/delaying tactics ( the driver admitted in a text it wasn't on their priority list), and the fact that I have started with the insurers, I'm going to continue down this road - I just don't know if I can claim for the time I wasted dealing with the driver directly rather than going through the insurers.
Especially as I think the insurers will void his policy on the basis He didn't report it.

Anyway - back to the question:

How much do you guys trust anything your LBS says regarding Crash Damage, on the basis that I might end up paying for it and the insurer's won't - would you do all the work at risk?

Ta

paul.skibum

My general view of many mechanics be they bike or car related is that they can be tempted to pad a bill with non essential repair work especially if they think someone other than you is paying.

In your case where a bike is damaged due to a third party incident I would want them to list every little thing because I would want my bike returned to its as was state.

I claimed through my own household insurance for accidental damage to my bike years back - insurers asked me to take my bike into a local shop - they told me what I already knew - new frame needed - and the insurers paid for a replacement frame and building it with me chucking in extra for a few changed bits and bobs. In that case I didn't want them to bodge a fix because I knew it needed a proper repair and the cost wouldnt be on me. The same shop tried it on with me about another repair I looked into with them (suggesting replacing my disc brakes when a bleed sorted it)