Rim brakes ... Are they always this bad?

grenw

Been a mountain bike rider for a few years now and my last 2 bikes have had hydraulic disc brakes so have been used to great brakes. I've now just bought a Defy 0 on our cycle scheme and find the brake performance just scary.

I've only put one 25 mile ride on it but wondered whether things would get better? Do the pads wear in or does a coating of rubber on the rim help?

If not then what should I be looking at? Better technique - I ride mostly on the hoods so am probably not getting much pressure on the levers. While not Ultegra like the rest of the groupset the brakes are decent : br561s which seem to be around 105 standard. Would some better pads help?

Am hoping it's not just a case of getting used to it!

simon_masterson

Better technique, sorry! It's true that road rim brakes are much weaker than MTB discs, but overpowerful brakes would just lock the wheel anyway. I started cycling with Weinmann brakes on steel rims; particularly in the rain that particular combo IS scary, and even the most basic of modern calipers are better beyond any comparison.

All that said, good quality pads can make a big difference - eg. if you ride in the rain a lot, buy accordingly - Koolstop Salmons etc.

Anonymous

I would get some Ultegra 6800 calipers (as you have an Ultegra groupset) and Swissstop pads. Then get used to it.
I doubt that whatever is on there is 105 5800 standard as they are really good with better pads too, so the Ultegras + decent pads should be noticeably better.

grenw

Thanks. Anyone know if a set of 6800s would be a straight swap in? Not sure if the current ones are longer reach to accommodate mudguards.

Anonymous

Not sure, but make sure you get 6800 if they fit.
No skimping on 6700 ;-)

grenw

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19651781#p19651781]Carbonator[/url] wrote:

Not sure, but make sure you get 6800 if they fit.
No skimping on 6700 ;-)

Think I'll spend a month or so getting used to the current ones. Birthday next month... I can see the 6800s being on the list

imposter2.0

If you're used to hydraulics, then rim brakes are a big step down. Better quality pads might make a small improvement, but they're not going to transform it.

dj58

OP I have a 2013 Defy 0, the first upgrade I made after riding the bike for a couple of weeks, was to swop the BR-561's for Ultegra BR-6700 and SwissStop Blue FlashPro BXP pads. Big improvement, I suggest you do the same, though as Carbonator says get the BR-6800 which match your STI's, you won't have a problem stopping with that combination in the dry or wet.

Yes they will be a straight swop the BR-561 and BR-6800 have the same reach i.e. they are not long reach calipers.

kajjal

My Trek road bike was dire for braking after being used to the hydraulic disc brakes on my mountain bike.

Best advice is to get at least 105 brakes or r650 if you need long reach. They are much better than the very poor ones that come on a lot of road bikes. Swisstop pads or similar will help in the wet.

Whatever you do you will not get close to the braking power and control of hydraulic disc brakes, especially in the wet.

bob6397

I too went from MTBing into road biking - I had spent the year before with a fairly decent pair of hydraulics on my mtb and then bought my 1st roadie - which came with Sora Calipers (decent) and Sora pads (really not). I changed the pads for some Swisstop Green pads and it was night and day - I went for the green ones as I mostly ride the mtb if it is raining..

I am seriously considering getting a set of swisstops' for my new roadie - which has 5800 105 Calipers and pads - just to see what the difference will be. The 105 combo is miles better than the sora/swisstop combo though - although that may be because there is over 1000 miles on the swisstop pads (including one descent which glazed them half way down with the heat)..

I would get 6800 calipers with Swisstop green pads in your shoes - you will notice the difference. Nothing is the same as a set of hydraulic disc's though...

bob6397

Anonymous

I swapped out some Tektros for 105 5800 with Swissstop greens on one bike and feel 'transform' is an accurate word to use.

Let us know how you get on with the 6800/Swissstop green combo if you do it some day.

There is little point comparing to your Hydraulic MTB (for at least two reasons), but don't let that put you off comparing with/upgrading from the Giant stock brakes ;-)

grenw

Thanks all. Some good advice. I wasn't expecting hydraulic performance but was very very glad my maiden voyage was on the back roads of the New Forest and in the dry!

Looks like a set of 6800s are on my shopping list and then maybe some pads...

navrig2

I've a bike with 105 and a bike with 6800.

The 6800 have ultegra pads and the braking is much better than the 105 with Kool Stops.

markhewitt1978

I had terrible braking when I first got my road bike, properly scary, although I'm happy with it now.

Things that helped:
Swapping the crappy Tektro calipers for Shimano 6800. Eliminated a lot of flex.
Changed brake pads from stock at the same time. Swisstops, I've tried them but find no difference to Shimano Ultegra or Dura Ace pads.
Changed my brake levers from 105 5700 to Ultegra 6700 - The 105 5700 might as well not had braking from the hoods at all it was that bad, 6700 works great.

homers_double

I was running Tigara with swiss stops and swapped the groupset to 105 with the standard pads and the braking is much better and I haven't felt the need yet to put the swiss stops on the 105 calipers I have now.

I'm also a MTBer having used XT's and currently XTR discs on my Heckler.

simon_masterson

Shimano pads aren't that great, they're very hard for one thing, which can reduce effectiveness in the wet and trash rims quicker. Koolstop and SwissStop make softer compounds.

That said, I have 105 calipers on my TT bike at the moment, with the shoes as high as they'll go because of how tight the clearances are, and Tektro long drops on my general use road bike, and there's really no appreciable difference in stopping power. Tyres are 19-21mm and 25mm respectively, so A) that makes a difference, and the differences between modern rim brakes are hugely overhyped.

charlie_potatoes

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19655515#p19655515]Simon Masterson[/url] wrote:

Shimano pads aren't that great, they're very hard for one thing, which can reduce effectiveness in the wet and trash rims quicker. Koolstop and SwissStop make softer compounds.

IMO the shimano pads are by far the superior of the three in dry conditions. Different scenario in the winter though.

DeVlaeminck

Much prefer Swisstop to standard shimano myself but each to their own - recently swopped out the standard pads from my Ultegra brakes for some Swisstop Blue and wasn't disappointed.

I wouldn't say the Ultegra pads were bad but I'd used Swisstop Green and Blue before and for me they offer noticeable improvement. The other thing that may help is running some slightly wider and more grippy tyres depending on what the bike came with as standard.

bikes`n`guns

Roadies are too manly to slow down. Excess brakes are just a waste.

davidof

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19651678#p19651678]Simon Masterson[/url] wrote:

Better technique, sorry! It's true that road rim brakes are much weaker than MTB discs, but overpowerful brakes would just lock the wheel anyway. I started cycling with Weinmann brakes on steel rims; particularly in the rain that particular combo IS scary, and even the most basic of modern calipers are better beyond any comparison.

Road brakes should be poweful enough to lock the wheels as there isn't a lot of rubber in contact with the road. Case in point I overtook a slow moving van the other day on the descent only to find someone pull out of a layby. I briefly locked both wheels as I braked - that on 1998 Campag rim brakes.

My Eroica bike has center pull weinmann's, now that is a spongy brake.

desweller

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19657064#p19657064]davidof[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19651678#p19651678]Simon Masterson[/url] wrote:

Better technique, sorry! It's true that road rim brakes are much weaker than MTB discs, but overpowerful brakes would just lock the wheel anyway. I started cycling with Weinmann brakes on steel rims; particularly in the rain that particular combo IS scary, and even the most basic of modern calipers are better beyond any comparison.

Road brakes should be poweful enough to lock the wheels as there isn't a lot of rubber in contact with the road. Case in point I overtook a slow moving van the other day on the descent only to find someone pull out of a layby. I briefly locked both wheels as I braked - that on 1998 Campag rim brakes.

My Eroica bike has center pull weinmann's, now that is a spongy brake.

You locked the front wheel?

You need better tyres.

andyeb

Be careful with the stock Shimano pads and 6700 or 6800 wheels. Despite regular cleaning and removing crud from the blocks, I wore through about half of the acceptable rim wear on my 6700 wheels in just a matter of months.

The Swisstop pads seem to provide equal braking performance but with far less rim wear.