Astana..How Many Times!!
vinnymarsden
Posts: 560
So Lars Boom has now failed some kind of cortisone levels test…yet the team, who jokingly signed up to the credible cycling thing DIDNT pull him from the tour and he manages a creditable 23rd in the short TT today!
It seems somewhat bizarre that the entire Astana team have been shrouded in controversy for so long and still manage, somehow to retain their license. Lance was publicly torn apart and rightly had his titles stripped, but here we have, what appears on the surface to be some VERY questionable tests etc, and the team just seem to carry on, and all seemingly, by their silence, with the blessing of the UCI and other governing bodies.
I am not levelling outright accusations, but there is, in my humble opinion clearly some issues, with a team managed by Vinoukorov of all people! I like to see the best in all people, and I may be well wide of the mark, I imagine we will never know, but it seems funny that the team drawing heat even before the tour starts is once again Astana.
I personally think there should be some kind of "sin bin" scenario for teams who draw so much negative attention, maybe the refusal to allow them a start in one of the big tours would indicate to their management that things need to be shaken up, and their house put in order.If everything is okay then why the same team again and again?
I personally have nothing against Astana, I like Nibali, but the smell of something "not quite right" has been following them for long enough. What do others think??
It seems somewhat bizarre that the entire Astana team have been shrouded in controversy for so long and still manage, somehow to retain their license. Lance was publicly torn apart and rightly had his titles stripped, but here we have, what appears on the surface to be some VERY questionable tests etc, and the team just seem to carry on, and all seemingly, by their silence, with the blessing of the UCI and other governing bodies.
I am not levelling outright accusations, but there is, in my humble opinion clearly some issues, with a team managed by Vinoukorov of all people! I like to see the best in all people, and I may be well wide of the mark, I imagine we will never know, but it seems funny that the team drawing heat even before the tour starts is once again Astana.
I personally think there should be some kind of "sin bin" scenario for teams who draw so much negative attention, maybe the refusal to allow them a start in one of the big tours would indicate to their management that things need to be shaken up, and their house put in order.If everything is okay then why the same team again and again?
I personally have nothing against Astana, I like Nibali, but the smell of something "not quite right" has been following them for long enough. What do others think??
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This is where I really hate the MPCC. They just confuse matters. Either something is against the rules, or it's not. Having a secondary set of rules makes no sense
Ultimately Astana or Boom didn't do anything in violation of the rules, this should not even be a story
I don't care for the team at all but this whole thing annoys meFckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
Cookson's comments on the subject...
http://www.itv.com/tourdefrance/brian-cookson-exclusive-astana-rider-lars-boom-broke-no-uci-rules0 -
Here's how to reform the MPCC to make it into something useful and not the hinderance to progress it has become.
1. No more rules
2. No more memberships
3. Nobody currently working for a team on its management
4. Act as a forum for all stakeholders - staff, teams, sponsors etc - to air their concerns about the state of anti-doping. If there is a consensus for changes that need to be made (i.e. banning tramadol or cortisone) then they will lobby UCI and WADA.
5. Audit UCI's dope testing regime and TUE granting to ensure that it is being done properly.
6. Act as a confidential conduit with legal support for anyone who wishes to whistleblow.
7. Provide support for convicted dopers to allow them to co=operate with authorities.
8. Educate youth level cyclists.Twitter: @RichN950 -
totally agreeThis is where I really hate the MPCC. They just confuse matters. Either something is against the rules, or it's not. Having a secondary set of rules makes no sense
Ultimately Astana or Boom didn't do anything in violation of the rules, this should not even be a story
I don't care for the team at all but this whole thing annoys me0 -
just shows what a joke the MPCC is. They would be far better off working with the UCI up update their rules if they feel this low level of cortisol has any affect.
Anyone know the medical reasoning behind this ?0 -
Can't really blame the team for not wanting to run a man down as they couldn't replace Lars.
If Lars is just subject to a natural irregularity you have to feel for the guy to have such a ? over his tour. Now if he has a dope test or two that suddenly come back with other problems for the UCI/WADA doping then it becomes something more.
As mentioned before, this group membership differing to the regulators is a mess.
Out of ignorance, has Lars been seriously suspected of doping in the past?0 -
The problem here is not the UCI or the MPCC. It's the fact that Astana voluntarily signed up to these rules but then promptly broke them and pulled out of MPCC when a problem arose. If they disagreed with the rules they shouldn't have signed up or should have lobbied the MPCC to change them. If they do agree with the rule they should have withdrawn Boom.0
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Astana were willing to replace Boom. Vanotti was in Utrecht ready to start. But because the MPCC did the tests too late they couldn't effect the change under UCI rules. That's hardly fair or supportive towards their members by the MPCC.The problem here is not the UCI or the MPCC. It's the fact that Astana voluntarily signed up to these rules but then promptly broke them and pulled out of MPCC when a problem arose. If they disagreed with the rules they shouldn't have signed up or should have lobbied the MPCC to change them. If they do agree with the rule they should have withdrawn Boom.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Astana were willing to replace Boom. Vanotti was in Utrecht ready to start. But because the MPCC did the tests too late they couldn't effect the change under UCI rules. That's hardly fair or supportive towards their members by the MPCC.The problem here is not the UCI or the MPCC. It's the fact that Astana voluntarily signed up to these rules but then promptly broke them and pulled out of MPCC when a problem arose. If they disagreed with the rules they shouldn't have signed up or should have lobbied the MPCC to change them. If they do agree with the rule they should have withdrawn Boom.
And the issue of the cortisol test had already been flagged by both Lampre and Jumbo-Lotto. Both have quit the MPCC over it. Surely, the MPCC ought to be addressing team concerns. Instead they now wait to meet in September to discuss whether to expel Astana.0 -
bring back Change Cycling Now, that's what I say."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
may be they just have high cortisone...0
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The MPCC has temporarily suspended Astana
This will have major implications for nothing at all.
Ah so the organisation they have already left have said they are suspended.
Astana and Vino must be quaking in their boots
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I find all this very sad.
Vino has no link to PEDs and has never used them or been suspected of having done so.
He never rode with, spoke to or sat in the same cafe as Lance Armstrong or any of the other dopers (there were very few of them) in the pro-peloton.
His Astana team (which has a whole city named after it) has never been involved in doping controversies and never will be.
I find sometimes that there is a media bias within cycling and that the cynicism it breeds can filter down into forum pages like these.
It is all too, too sad.
Wiggo, Evans, Vogt, Voeckler, Boom, Sagan, Pinot, Froome... They are and were always clean riders.
Just like Ullrich, Armstrong, Cippolini, Sastre, Big Mig, Pantani and all the rest.0 -
The MPCC has temporarily suspended Astana
This will have major implications for nothing at all.
Ah so the organisation they have already left have said they are suspended.
Astana and Vino must be quaking in their boots
You can't fire me! I quit!"In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
Really? Based on what?...He never rode with, spoke to or sat in the same cafe as Lance Armstrong or any of the other dopers (there wee very few of them) in the pro-peloton.
Again, how do you know this?...His Astana team (which has a whole city named after it) has never been involved in doping controversies and never will be.
Pardon?...Wiggo, Evans, Vogt, Voeckler, Boom, Sagan, Pinot, Froome... They are and were always clean riders.
Just like Ullrich, Armstrong, Cippolini, Sastre, Big Mig, Pantani and all the rest.0 -
Again, how do you know this?...His Astana team (which has a whole city named after it) has never been involved in doping controversies and never will be.
I looked on a map and there is a city called Astana in Kazakhstan. Coincidence? I think not.
Does Sky have a city named after it? No! Is there a city called Lotto Belosol? Need I say more?
Quod erat demonstrandum. Sic transit gloria mundi. Ipso facto. Alea jacta est. Timeo danaos et grexit ferentes.0 -
Again, how do you know this?...His Astana team (which has a whole city named after it) has never been involved in doping controversies and never will be.
I looked on a map and there is a city called Astana in Kazakhstan. Coincidence? I think not.
Does Sky have a city named after it? No! Is there a city called Lotto Belosol? Need I say more?
Quod erat demonstrandum. Sic transit gloria mundi. Ipso facto. Alea jacta est. Timeo danaos et grexit ferentes.
Are you one of the old boys who were banished?0 -
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oWhen a true genius appears in this world, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19642265#p19642265]disgruntledgoat[/url] wrote:bring back Change Cycling Now, that's what I say.
How about a new organisation, Change MPCC Now ?Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19642265#p19642265]disgruntledgoat[/url] wrote:bring back Change Cycling Now, that's what I say.
How about a new organisation, Change MPCC Now ?
I understand Mr Farcical Underwear funds the brief for St Paul of Kimmage, the crusading martyr being drug by Verbruggen before the Swiss beak....a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19642265#p19642265]disgruntledgoat[/url] wrote:bring back Change Cycling Now, that's what I say.
How about a new organisation, Change MPCC Now ?
I understand Mr Farcical Underwear funds the brief for St Paul of Kimmage, the crusading martyr being drug by Verbruggen before the Swiss beak.
Oh he's all about FIFA now as far as I can see.
Possibly he thinks it stands for Federation International Farcical Arsegarments.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0
