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Whats a good weight to aim for for new 27.5 wheels upgrade?

odessoukyodessouky Posts: 264
edited June 2015 in MTB buying advice
Hi all...

It's a bit of a broad topic, but I am looking to upgrade my wheels, for the sole purpose of saving weight, but wanted to know if realistically that is possible with the current weight of my wheels?

Not looking to break the bank...or buy anything exotic...maybe around the £300 mark?

Currently my bike has Giant's P-XC2 rims, with Shwalbe Racing Ralph 2 27.5x2.25" tires, and Giant's stock hubs, DT swiss I think. The cassette is a SRAM PG1030 11-36 cassette 10 speed. Both wheels have Avid Elixir 5 160mm rotors.

Bike is the Giant Anthem 2 27.5:
http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-gb/bikes/model/2014.giant.anthem.27.5.2/14994/66600/#specifications

I managed to weight the wheels today...

Rear: 2.505 kg
Front: 1.775 kg

Whole bike is: 12.69kg



Both FULLY EQUIPPED wheels: 4.3 kg!!


This includes, as mentioned, everything on the wheels.

A friend of mine has a Whyte, with HOPE EVO 2 hubs, and Stans Crest rims...and I really like those hubs....

Assuming I upgrade my HUBS, RIMS and WHEELS, to something equally good, but LIGHTER...am I going to achieve a significant reduction in weight?

Thanks

Posts

  • Antm81Antm81 Posts: 1,406
    I had the same wheelset on my Trance, just with heavier tyres etc. Switched to hope hubs with flow ex rims, had a very minor weight saving, roughly 50-100g, but I was after a wider rim not a weight saving. Using crests I'd expect you to save a couple of hundred grams more at least. I'd also look at converting to tubeless, should save you some weight and I've been happy with the performance advantages.
  • POAHPOAH Posts: 3,369
    you need to weight the wheels, tyres, tubes on their own to see where savings can be made.
  • The RookieThe Rookie Posts: 27,748
    Cheapest saving is either a lightweight tube or tubeless, then a lighter tyre, no point having lighter wheels until you have those two sorted.

    On an Anthem you either want full on XC wheels or a slightly more trail orientated set depending on use, but hope hubs with crest rims would seem to be a good option, that will coco me in just over 1600g for the bare wheels and be the very easiest tubeless option.

    If you want to push it a bit have a look at the wheel build towards the end of the Kraken thread linked to below , the wheels are now on the Niota.
  • odessoukyodessouky Posts: 264
    Cheapest saving is either a lightweight tube or tubeless, then a lighter tyre, no point having lighter wheels until you have those two sorted.

    On an Anthem you either want full on XC wheels or a slightly more trail orientated set depending on use, but hope hubs with crest rims would seem to be a good option, that will coco me in just over 1600g for the bare wheels and be the very easiest tubeless option.

    If you want to push it a bit have a look at the wheel build towards the end of the Kraken thread linked to below , the wheels are now on the Niota.

    Thnx
    I'll have a look at your thread when I get home.

    Interestingly, after taking off my rear wheel yesterday to weigh it, the brake doesn't bite as well??

    I just finished a ride, and I have to pull the lever till it actually touches the grip to have the brakes bite? What could I have possibly done wrong? Bike is 2 days old, was ok yesterday, and today after weighing the rear wheel, brakes have stopped biting?
  • odessoukyodessouky Posts: 264
    Quick question..

    Are the giant P-XC 2 rims and schwalbe racing Ralph 2 tires tubeless ready?
  • Antm81Antm81 Posts: 1,406
    Quick question..

    Are the giant P-XC 2 rims and schwalbe racing Ralph 2 tires tubeless ready?

    25mm gorilla tape and a set of tubeless valves and sealant of your choice. Not sure on the tyres, depends on the model of racing Ralph, however with enough sealant to plug he small holes in the sidewalls, even the non tubeless ready version should inflate with enough patience.
  • odessoukyodessouky Posts: 264
    Quick question..

    Are the giant P-XC 2 rims and schwalbe racing Ralph 2 tires tubeless ready?

    Ok, so I went on Shwalbe's website, and downloaded the catalogue.

    Here's what it says on the my Racing Ralphs, based on the part number on my wheels:

    Part number: 57-584
    27.5x2.25
    650B TL Ready
    530 grams
    Article number: 11600391

    So it seems there ARE tubeless ready. On schwalbe's website, they suggest their own tape, and a new valve?

    I keep reading that the Stan tubes are the best tape/sealant/kit etc..

    Can you please point me to what to get exactly?

    And is it a DIY job, or best to have a good shop do it? And if so, where in South West/Central London?

    As suggested, guess this will be my first step in weight reduction of my setup.

    Thanks
  • Antm81Antm81 Posts: 1,406
    You won't go wrong with a roll of gorilla tape from your local hardware store plus a set of tubeless valves, I used the dt Swiss ones from chain reaction, removable valve cores are a big help though. This is what I used on the same rims, good cheap setup and unlike the thick rim strips with a valve built in such as the stans kits it's lighter.

    Obviously you'll need sealant too, I'm using Joes which has performed well, others prefer stans etc.
  • odessoukyodessouky Posts: 264
    Quick question..

    Are the giant P-XC 2 rims and schwalbe racing Ralph 2 tires tubeless ready?

    Ok, so I went on Shwalbe's website, and downloaded the catalogue.

    Here's what it says on the my Racing Ralphs, based on the part number on my wheels:

    Part number: 57-584
    27.5x2.25
    650B TL Ready
    530 grams
    Article number: 11600391

    So it seems there ARE tubeless ready. On schwalbe's website, they suggest their own tape, and a new valve?

    I keep reading that the Stan tubes are the best tape/sealant/kit etc..

    Can you please point me to what to get exactly?

    And is it a DIY job, or best to have a good shop do it? And if so, where in South West/Central London?

    As suggested, guess this will be my first step in weight reduction of my setup.

    Thanks

    Oops...seems that is the Evolution line tyre..

    My tire has PERFORMANCE LINE written on it...which seems to be different:

    Part Number: 57-584
    27.5x2.25
    650B Performance
    Dual
    1.8-3.7 bar
    26-54 psi
    585 grams
    67 EPI (whatever that mean??)
    Article number: 11600392

    I suppose that means its NOT TL ready?
  • Antm81Antm81 Posts: 1,406
    The TL ready ones, tend to have less porous sidewalls, the non TL ready should still work, they'll just require more sealant initially to seal the sidewalls and more patience to set up
  • odessoukyodessouky Posts: 264
    The TL ready ones, tend to have less porous sidewalls, the non TL ready should still work, they'll just require more sealant initially to seal the sidewalls and more patience to set up

    thanks for your help...

    sorry to be a pain...

    Can you point me to ALL the parts needed for this job?

    Have never done this before, but will enjoy doing it myself.

    I have NO tools at all, so please also factor in what I'll need to remove the tires from the Giant P-XC 2 rims as well.

    Thanks

    P.S. is this process reversible? meaning, can I go back to tubes if needed, once I go TL with sealant etc?
  • Antm81Antm81 Posts: 1,406
    Oh and a decent guide here on how to do it http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Tech-Tuesday-Gorilla-Tape-Tubeless-Conversion.html However you don't need to measure the rim or trim the tape, the 25mm tape fits those rims well.
  • I have just bought an Anthem SX which has the same wheels. I got the bike shop to convert them to tubeless before picking up the bike and they seemed fine for a few rides. Nobby nick on the front and Racing Ralph on the back.

    Whilst fiddling with my suspension in the back garden the other night I was doing a few endos to see how much I could get the forks to dip and the front tyre burped all the air out

    My tyre pressure before wasn't rock hard but hardly over soft which is sort of the point of running tubeless. Without a compressor I was stuffed trying to re seat the tyre and gave up and had to mop up all the sealant / scrape it out and put a tube in.

    The tyre bead was quite baggy on the rim for and the side wall seemed a bit too pliable.

    On my other mtb if I deflate the inner tubes I have to push the bead away from the rim resonably hard to unseat it afterwards ( Purgatory on Mavic 319).

    Whether it was the rim / tyre or both I have no idea but I could have been mid ride and in a right pickle
  • The RookieThe Rookie Posts: 27,748
    As you appear not to own a pressure gauge the obvious conclusion is that the tyre was at too low a pressure and so user error? You can run a lower pressure tubeless, but circa 22psi is the limit.
  • As you appear not to own a pressure gauge the obvious conclusion is that the tyre was at too low a pressure and so user error? You can run a lower pressure tubeless, but circa 22psi is the limit.

    Maybe, It's certainly possible. I don't profess to know a great deal about tubeless as yet.

    I had a track pump until recently and have never felt comfortable with my tyre pressures below about 33 due to having 50% roads on my rides and the fact I don't like squishy tyres. I doubt they were as low as 22

    I have however changed a lot of tyres and it was the baggiest tyre I have seen on a rim in 25 years. Once pressure had been lost over half of the tyre just fell away from the side of the rim on both sides. I took the tyre off to clean it and as I started pushing the 2nd bead on to the rim after inserting the tube the first bead was popping back off the other side.
  • MattceeMattcee Posts: 148
    I have the same bike as you - except the 2015 version and was in exactly your shoes just a few weeks ago.

    With the same wheels as you and the racing ralphs and having never done a tubeless conversion before - or any modern day bike maintenence, I was a little aprehensive about doing it myself but things went ok.

    I got the Stans 26" standard kit and never used the yellow rim tape that came with it as the blue tape on the wheels looked good and tight. I just used the rubber rim strips which I coated in soapy water which went on the 27.5" wheels much easier and used one and a half cups of the sealant per wheel.

    The trick is to brush the edge of the tyres/rims with soapy water and inflate the the valve at the top (12 o'clock position) whilst pushing down slighty on the tyre over the valve while pumping with a large pump.
    Pushing down creates more of a seal over the valve and pushes the tyre out towards the rim.

    Aside from the soapy water, another tip is to do the above but without any sealant and blow the tyre upto 45-50 or so psi. This should force the rubber rim strips deep into the wheel rims for a better seal. Deflate the tyre, remove part of one side and then add the sealant.

    I had no real problems except the front was losing pressure slowly every couple couple of days and it turms out the tyre sidewalls of the racing ralphs are pretty thin and have pinpricks so added more sealant and left the wheels over an empty bucket for several hours at a time, shaking the tyres then turning and leaving again.

    There isn't a huge weight saving though...

    Front tubed - 1797 | Tubeless - 1750
    Rear tubed - 2067 | Tubeless - 1939

    The biggest thing for me was how they felt initially. I use 35psi as do some road work but it felt like the tyres had gone almost flat or were to low pressure but it turns out you just get more 'feel' from the surface without the tubes.

    Hope that helps but if you really want to save weight, lose your 2x10 and go 1x10 gearing.
    The little tweaks I've made has lost me a kilo from my bike.
  • POAHPOAH Posts: 3,369
    if you use the rubber strips there won't be much of a saving. it also depends on how heavy your tubes are too. I saved 150g per wheel on lewis's bike using gorrila tape and DT valves over the standard 24 inch tubes.
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