A f***ING disgrace!
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diy wrote:
If you imagine 3 scenarios of a person pulling out from a side road without looking. Depending on the luck of the draw he could face himself with an angry cyclist, an injured cyclist or a dead cyclist. But in all scenarios his guilty act was the same. How therefore can it be right, that the punishment should be different according to the bad luck of the draw?
Because the driver fled the scene and drove off!0 -
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PS:- Innocent until proven guilty in the U.S.? There are families of a few black American youths that would like to have that discussion with you. Never mind, the policemen's attorneys are only doing what is best. :roll:
Would not be hard to convince ANYONE of that. The police in the US abuse their powers every minute of every day. It is only getting worse. There is a reason we have a Second Amendment here (right to bear arms). It is not to go hunting or protect our homes from burglars (side benefits). It is to protect ourselves from tyrannical governments (and agents of the government). Far too many people in the US are ignorant (on a whole) and ignorant of why are laws are our laws.
My point is...what would be gained by locking this guy up for 20 years? Revenge? Then what? I did note that I agree he deserved a harsher punishment - but not 20 years.
I mean, heck - that idiot who shot up the "black" church is all over the news in the US. The black guy who killed seven blacks at a block party last weekend is not national news. Chicago has a "hand gun ban"...and the highest hand gun crime in our country...as has been said over and over, over here - "if you take the guns away from the law abiding citizens, only law breakers will have guns"...and does it ever show in Chicago.0 -
A lot of truth in that.Historically at least in criminal law the guilty mind was more culpable than the guilty act. In other words... Someone who attempts but fails to murder another person is more culpable than a person who accidentally kills another person.
If you imagine 3 scenarios of a person pulling out from a side road without looking. Depending on the luck of the draw he could face himself with an angry cyclist, an injured cyclist or a dead cyclist. But in all scenarios his guilty act was the same. How therefore can it be right, that the punishment should be different according to the bad luck of the draw?
But if you follow that logic to its endpoint, you wouldn't punish any driver for killing unless you could prove they deliberately set out to murder. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the legal principle that, when you choose to drive carelessly / while drunk / whatever, you know the possible consequences, therefore it's at that point that you commit the crime?0 -
Right enough, a whopping 2.5% of gun deaths in the states are categorised as "justifiable homicide by private citizens"."if you take the guns away from the law abiding citizens, only law breakers will have guns"
This clearly indicates that not nearly enough private citizens are carrying and using guns, so the only solution is to give guns to ALL honest citizens from the age of three up. What could possibly go wrong?
And I love the outrage at all the illegal guns out there. I mean, where on earth could they all have come from?0 -
Or wasn't aware he'd had an accident:
http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/2015/06/18/lorry-driver-avoids-immediate-jail-after-killing-shropshire-cyclist-on-a49/
Oh yes, of course, he had no idea and that's why he said the damage to his lorry had occurred in the courtyard :roll:
Im sorry but he knew full well what he had done.
Why do other drivers stop when the have accidents? Because they hear/feel it.
I just hope the CPS do appeal the sentence (or lack of it).
Laws are there to keep order & make the world a safer place. Do you feel safer as a road user after this?? I know I don't!0 -
Right enough, a whopping 2.5% of gun deaths in the states are categorised as "justifiable homicide by private citizens"."if you take the guns away from the law abiding citizens, only law breakers will have guns"
This clearly indicates that not nearly enough private citizens are carrying and using guns, so the only solution is to give guns to ALL honest citizens from the age of three up. What could possibly go wrong?
And I love the outrage at all the illegal guns out there. I mean, where on earth could they all have come from?
More and more of us agree. More and more of us are opting to carry. Ignorance is letting only the Government carry guns. Illinois was the last state to "allow" concealed carry. They cant even come close to keeping up with the applications. States like Texas with "open" carry...oddly, they just dont have the issues (other than in Gang land, Drug land and more often than not black communities).0 -
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the legal principle that, when you choose to drive carelessly / while drunk / whatever, you know the possible consequences, therefore it's at that point that you commit the crime?
ermm.. sort of.. well not really.. There are few situation where you "choose" to drive carelessly. Its pretty much considered to be a temporary lapse below the normal standard of a careful or competent driver rather than deliberately doing something dangerous. There are exceptions. Aggravating factors such as ignoring warning signs, drink, drugs, no insurance etc.. they all "up the game" and increase the level of culpability.
There are relatively few criminal offences which are strict liability
The legal principle is Mens Rea (guilty mind) and there are 3 parts: Intention, Recklessness,
Negligence ( and Gross Negligence). There is a nice pic in this book:
https://bookshop.blackwell.co.uk/extracts/9780199228287_loveless.pdf
if you decide to read it (AR) which isn't defined stands for "Actus Reus" i.e. guilty act.0 -
That must be why we're in such a terrible state with gun crime in the UK :roll:Ignorance is letting only the Government carry guns.0 -
From the shropshire local rag...Baker, of Mountain Ash, Glamorgan, was also ordered to complete 200 hours of unpaid work and seven sessions of a positive thinking skills activity.
What the hell does that last bit even mean?Advocate of disc brakes.0 -
Right enough, a whopping 2.5% of gun deaths in the states are categorised as "justifiable homicide by private citizens"."if you take the guns away from the law abiding citizens, only law breakers will have guns"
This clearly indicates that not nearly enough private citizens are carrying and using guns, so the only solution is to give guns to ALL honest citizens from the age of three up. What could possibly go wrong?
And I love the outrage at all the illegal guns out there. I mean, where on earth could they all have come from?
More and more of us agree. More and more of us are opting to carry. Ignorance is letting only the Government carry guns. Illinois was the last state to "allow" concealed carry. They cant even come close to keeping up with the applications. States like Texas with "open" carry...oddly, they just dont have the issues (other than in Gang land, Drug land and more often than not black communities).
And they say Americans don't understand sarcasm. Whoosh!0 -
Training him in positive thinking so he can convince himself he did nothing wrong? How is that going to improve his driving?From the shropshire local rag...Baker, of Mountain Ash, Glamorgan, was also ordered to complete 200 hours of unpaid work and seven sessions of a positive thinking skills activity.
What the hell does that last bit even mean?0 -
Right enough, a whopping 2.5% of gun deaths in the states are categorised as "justifiable homicide by private citizens"."if you take the guns away from the law abiding citizens, only law breakers will have guns"
This clearly indicates that not nearly enough private citizens are carrying and using guns, so the only solution is to give guns to ALL honest citizens from the age of three up. What could possibly go wrong?
And I love the outrage at all the illegal guns out there. I mean, where on earth could they all have come from?
More and more of us agree. More and more of us are opting to carry. Ignorance is letting only the Government carry guns. Illinois was the last state to "allow" concealed carry. They cant even come close to keeping up with the applications. States like Texas with "open" carry...oddly, they just dont have the issues (other than in Gang land, Drug land and more often than not black communities).
I can't tell if this is a wind up or not?www.conjunctivitis.com - a site for sore eyes0 -
Right enough, a whopping 2.5% of gun deaths in the states are categorised as "justifiable homicide by private citizens"."if you take the guns away from the law abiding citizens, only law breakers will have guns"
This clearly indicates that not nearly enough private citizens are carrying and using guns, so the only solution is to give guns to ALL honest citizens from the age of three up. What could possibly go wrong?
And I love the outrage at all the illegal guns out there. I mean, where on earth could they all have come from?
More and more of us agree. More and more of us are opting to carry. Ignorance is letting only the Government carry guns. Illinois was the last state to "allow" concealed carry. They cant even come close to keeping up with the applications. States like Texas with "open" carry...oddly, they just dont have the issues (other than in Gang land, Drug land and more often than not black communities).I can't tell if this is a wind up or not?
Probably...but, as was said. We have the RIGHT to carry and bare arms. Part of this is to fight the Govt. The other part is to arm the people in case of attempted "throw over". While this may seem arcane, IF another country was to try and invade the people could attempt to protect ourselves. This may seem outlandish, but - we think Sept 11th, Boston...and people like me who know history think of the surrender monkeys we call France. WW1 and WW2 were really not "that" long ago. It is not countable how many lives were saved and lost in Eastern Europe over the past two decades...but, that is another thread.
Oh, and as a sports car bufff (all European cars mind you M and AMG)...what you guys pay for fuel!!! I would want to shoot myself
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Probably...but, as was said. We have the RIGHT to carry and bare arms. Part of this is to fight the Govt. The other part is to arm the people in case of attempted "throw over". While this may seem arcane, IF another country was to try and invade the people could attempt to protect ourselves. This may seem outlandish, but - we think Sept 11th, Boston...and people like me who know history think of the surrender monkeys we call France. WW1 and WW2 were really not "that" long ago. It is not countable how many lives were saved and lost in Eastern Europe over the past two decades...but, that is another thread.
Oh, and as a sports car bufff (all European cars mind you M and AMG)...what you guys pay for fuel!!! I would want to shoot myself
probably? i meant if you were winding us up! i guess not!
So having guns really helped with 911 and boston then? and i'm not sure the American public having guns really helped all that much in WW1 or WW2?www.conjunctivitis.com - a site for sore eyes0 -
Ironically, calling the French surrender monkeys only proves you don't know history
History is written by the Victor...we love to make fun of the French. Been all over Europe and Africa (some for racing, some for pleasure). IM France, never ever again. IM Switzerland...never met nicer people.
But, yes, the French gave into the Germans in two wars (or simply lost). Good think the Brit's were there to keep them alive as the Germans marched around the Maginot Line...If not the the US and Brittan, West Germany would have been much larger.
Here is contorting history for you. In the US we are taught that the camps in WWII were "war crimes"...and just terrible. Fire bombing Dresden? SUCCESS! Death marches in the Pacific? TERRIBLE! Dropping a few nukes? SUCCESS!! Countries teach their students to be fans of their own pasts. It is not like some teacher in France is going to say "Yes, Pieré...we really messed up in both wars and thank god our neighbors saved us"...but hey, history books from language to language remember altering things.
The other fact that we hate in the US (and others). People decry for us to get out of Iraq and Trashcanistan. My simple answer..."When, after the war did the US military leave Germany, Japan, Korea...?"0 -
Sniggers.Probably...but, as was said. We have the RIGHT to carry and bare arms.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Normally I would be the first to defend America against smug euro-lefty septic-baiting, but I think I've just decided to give up.0
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Normally I would be the first to defend America against smug euro-lefty septic-baiting, but I think I've just decided to give up.
Come on!!! Can you answer this?
"When, after the wars did the US military leave Germany, Japan, Korea...?"
Hmmmmmm :shock:
(also, this is obviously turned into off forum topics, just internet banter)0 -
Accidents can happen.
Covering them up is a major issue. Which should be punished.Accident: an unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally, typically resulting in damage or injury.
But any prosecution is not aimed at punishing the accident in itself but the action or lack of action which led to the accident. In some cases the action results in nothing happening and in some cases it results in the worst imaginable outcome.
At the end of the day we all have to make decisions and judgements and all too often they prove to be wrong.0 -
That's it, I give up. Look at that pretty daffodil!!0
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That's it, I give up. Look at that pretty daffodil!!
The answer is "we didnt"...oh...."squirrel!!"
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Normally I would be the first to defend America against smug euro-lefty septic-baiting, but I think I've just decided to give up.
Like Bompington, I am pro USA. I like the country and the people I have met have been open and welcoming.
But...some over there cling to some legal Amendment written hundreds of years ago, whilst in N. Africa, people have adopted laws laid down hundreds of years ago. Americans regard one as being a given right and the other an abomination. Funny old world.0 -
Wierdly enough it's a funny Australian who shows us the way - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL8JEEt2RxIWe're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Normally I would be the first to defend America against smug euro-lefty septic-baiting, but I think I've just decided to give up.
Like Bompington, I am pro USA. I like the country and the people I have met have been open and welcoming.
But...some over there cling to some legal Amendment written hundreds of years ago, whilst in N. Africa, people have adopted laws laid down hundreds of years ago. Americans regard one as being a given right and the other an abomination. Funny old world.
also pro US without their sacrifice we d never have won 2 WW's or kept the Soviets at bay, though their military adventures since havent always been so successful !
what they do with guns is up to them, its part of their heritage and absolutely no concern of ours, with so many weapons in circulation now, i doubt there is anything they could do, even if they wanted too.
not sure what the 2nd amendment has to do with the Koran....or what any of this is to do with the OP.0 -
Normally I would be the first to defend America against smug euro-lefty septic-baiting, but I think I've just decided to give up.
Like Bompington, I am pro USA. I like the country and the people I have met have been open and welcoming.
But...some over there cling to some legal Amendment written hundreds of years ago, whilst in N. Africa, people have adopted laws laid down hundreds of years ago. Americans regard one as being a given right and the other an abomination. Funny old world.
also pro US without their sacrifice we d never have won 2 WW's or kept the Soviets at bay, though their military adventures since havent always been so successful !
what they do with guns is up to them, its part of their heritage and absolutely no concern of ours, with so many weapons in circulation now, i doubt there is anything they could do, even if they wanted too.
not sure what the 2nd amendment has to do with the Koran....or what any of this is to do with the OP.
I was just trying to show that the justifications sometimes put forward by the NRA are centuries out of date and the thinking warped.
Fully agree that the genie is well and truly out of the bottle and there is nothing anyone can reasonably do.0 -
I think the squirrels should have the last word and kill this thread, toooo far gone now.
The answer is "we didnt"...oh...."squirrel!!"0
This discussion has been closed.
