Groupset or Wheels????

thegodplato

In a dilemma about groupset and wheels for my next bike which I'm hoping to order in a week or so. For the last 6 months I had set my heart on a bike with Ultegra Di2, don't ask me why, just thought if I was spending a serious amount of money it was the way to go.
Problem I have is I am currently on a Bianchi with Campag so a little concerned about jumping off one bike and not being quite ok with the gear changing if it have Shimano......

So, I have selected 3 bikes from the same supplier, are only £100 difference in cost and there lies my problem. Is it better to have better wheels than a more expensive groupset? My intended use is general riding, a trip to climb the little mole hills in the Alps next June and possibly Crit racing ( although I might start on the older Bianchi for that as I wouldn't like to damage my `best` expensive bike ).

Ultegra Di2 version comes with Ksyrium Elite S wheels. 7Kg

Ultegra ( Mech ) version comes with Ksyrium SLR wheels. 6.7Kg

Campag Chorus version comes with Campag Euros wheels. 6.8Kg

Can anyone help? Has anyone got the above setups?

I can't afford to get the lighter SLR wheels and Di2 so have to make a compromise!

I have had a few problems with my current mech Campag and so I thought as the Di2 is self adjusting and supposed to be super smooth it would be the best option.....

Another alternative is Rose bikes which seem incredibly light but those tubes are quite thin looking, and the whole bike doesn't look as good as my preferred choice.

thestrand

I would recommend going for the bike with the better wheels.

Although I have little experience of DI2 myself, if you maintain your mechanical gears correctly then they can still provide you with smooth gear changes (especially if it's Ultegra or equivalent), and the reduction in rotating weight from lighter/stiffer wheels such as the SLR can make a massive difference.

With the difference in shifter issue why don't you try out a bike that has Shimano shifters at your LBS, so then if you really can't get used to them it's an easy decision to stick with Campag.

I hope that helps

markhewitt1978

Always wheels every single time. The groupset will help you shift better but the wheels will make the entire thing better.

thegreatdivide

Chorus and Eurus, especially if it's the new Chorus groupset.

Di2 and EPS aren't self adjusting. The front mech will auto trim but the indexing on the back needs to be done by the user at set up and if you change wheel types this may need to be reset again.

Spudboy

I agree with the point on better wheels generally but of the 3 above choices I can't see that you will really notice the difference between any of the wheels when out on the road - all are good wheels. In this instance I would pick the groupset you like the best of those three. None of those wheels are going to be faster or more comfortable than the other.

If were me I'd have the Chorus/Eurus option but whatever floats your boat. If you've got a nagging desire for Di2 then go for that as you'll probably always wonder 'what if' if you don't.

thegreatdivide

OP - I see from your signature you're using Xenon. You'll find the (huge) jump up to Chrous is amazing! Night and day.

What bike would these wheel/group combos be going on?

mfin

Chorus/Eurus.

Chorus is great, anyone should be able to maintain a mechanical groupset and it won't saw gear cables off like some shimano mechanical groupsets do.

Eurus is a good wheel, you get pretty much all the benefit of Shamals. You don't have cult ceramic bearings of the shamals, but remember they may sound like nice thing but are £95 for a set for front and back, but only £20 for a set for the Eurus. My next winter wheel will probably be Eurus, and the bearing cost is one part of my logic.

The only real upside of electrical shimano vs the chorus is the front auto trimming. That said, Sram groupset would eliminate that whilst remaining mechanical.

thegodplato

Thanks for the replies. Bike is the Canyon Ultimate CF in SL or SLX guise.
I would hope that I would notice a difference in the wheels as the Ksyrium SLR's are almost twice the price!.

Ksyrium SLR @ £1200.00 RRP and 1355gr/pair
Ksyrium Elite S @ £525 RRP and 1520gr/pair
Euros @ £672 and 1480gr/pair.

If I went for the Campag route ( which a few others have said stay away from - opinions from mates ) then its a Moviestar coloured one which looks great.

SLR shod bike is the fav wheel ( I think ) and it looks great on the Stealth coloured frame but is mech Ultegra

The Di2 version is the weakeast in colours ( Silver or Black/White ).

And so, because I like the bike to look good, the wheels and frame colour have to look good together so that gives me another headache.

As I intend riding up Alp D'Huez and Galibier, and Ventoux, etc where I could be climbing for almost 2 hours at a time, the SLR's have been recommended for the stiffness and lightness to aid climbing, and for twice the price of the other two, I would flaming hope so!!

Yes, my current stead is Xenon, albeit with Veloce hoods as the original levers broke ( internal mechanism snapped ) and as much as I don't mind the gear change operation, I have never been able to set it up perfectly ( nor has a LBS ) so that is holding me back a little on going for the Moviestar Chorus one even if it is the cheapest of the 3.

thegreatdivide

If it's any help I have Racing Zeros which are at a very slightly higher level than the Eurus and I also have RSYS-SLR's. Both wheels are very stiff with the latter being the stiffest alu wheel you can currently buy (afaik). But being complete truthful – do they help me in my climbing? No they don’t. Going out and climbing lots of hills helps my climbing. The Zeros are heavier than the RSY-SLR’s but do I notice this when I’m on the bike? Nope. In the end it all comes down to which bike you like the look of. But being a diehard Campagnolo fan (EPS, SR, Record, Athena on all my bikes) I’d go for the Chorus ;-)

Spudboy

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19625812#p19625812]thegodplato[/url] wrote:

I would hope that I would notice a difference in the wheels as the Ksyrium SLR's are almost twice the price!.

Other than looks I bet you wouldn't!!

diamonddog

Spudboy wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19625812#p19625812]thegodplato[/url] wrote:

I would hope that I would notice a difference in the wheels as the Ksyrium SLR's are almost twice the price!.

Other than looks I bet you wouldn't!!

^^This

Bobbinogs

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19625862#p19625862]Spudboy[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19625812#p19625812]thegodplato[/url] wrote:

I would hope that I would notice a difference in the wheels as the Ksyrium SLR's are almost twice the price!.

Other than looks I bet you wouldn't!!

haha, yepp I reckon so too. Campag Zondas are ~1550gr/pair and cost less than £250 at moment, which makes the quoted options look a tad pricey!

There is a lot of marketing BS that goes along with wheelsets and much of the 'benefits' boil down to the odd 100g and nicer spoke patterns.

lostboysaint

The fact that it's Campag AND in the Movistar colours make this whole thread a complete waste of time. Why have you not ordered it already?!

86inch

[quote="thegodplato
As I intend riding up Alp D'Huez and Galibier, and Ventoux, etc where I could be climbing for almost 2 hours at a time, the SLR's have been recommended for the stiffness and lightness to aid climbing, and for twice the price of the other two, I would flaming hope so!!
[/quote]

Not sure if you've ever tackled these before, if you have, apologies - if not i promise you the last thing you'll be thinking about on the ascent is whether you spent another £600 on some lighter wheels.... you must be reasonably fit if you're contemplating racing so you've nothing to fear about ascending some big hills with wheels that weigh a few grammes more.

Go with the groupset of your choice.

mfin

The slx is a better lighter frame than the sl though right? So you're not comparing kit on the same frame.

SLRs come on the SLX though yeah? If so, that's the 'highest up' frame and wheel combination, if you can stand having ultegra. If you went for the Movistar SL, that's got the Chorus/Eurus which I'd prefer, the frame won't be the SLX though, if that doesn't niggle you, maybe go for that.

mamil314

I like Campagnolo groupsets, but i found Ultra Torque BB very leaky, ( coming from Power Torque ), and it requires more frequent maintenance - might be worth considering if you get rained on lot.

Also, if you're a beginner mountain climber, you might want a 32 cassette, while Campag's biggest seems to be 29, which also requires a medium RD. Of course, this might not apply if you're well fit and will fly up on a 27 ^ ^

Canyon frames seem to be well liked by roadies and they're easy on the eyes, you're likely to be happy with either of your 3 choices. I just wish they had some disc brake models.

Anonymous

My direct answer to the original question would always be Groupset, as I see wheels as more of a consumable item than a groupset.

Just get a second set of wheels at a later date if you really cannot afford them now.
Much easier to swap over and a spare/2nd set of wheels are often very handy to have (for a multitude of reasons) IME.

thegodplato

mfin - yes I know the SLR's are on the better frame, I prefer the Stealth colour of the SLX compared to the SL's colour options if I went for mech Ultegra ( but I'd save £600 and have Elite wheels instead ).

Mamil314 - beginner in terms of France yes. But I have climbed the UK's highest paved road Great Dunn Fell which is 2200ft in 5 miles on my current 34/27. As the Canyons all come with Semi Compact 53/36 I would have to get a cassette with a 29 cog just to be close to 34/27. So maybe that is another point towards Ultegra as I could get 32 cassette to have that last bail out gear if I'm struggling in the Alps? Especially as one of the days we are riding just under 100miles but 16,000ft of climbing........

I could always twiddle away like Froome!!

mercia_man

[quote="Also, if you're a beginner mountain climber, you might want a 32 cassette, while Campag's biggest seems to be 29, which also requires a medium RD. Of course, this might not apply if you're well fit and will fly up on a 27 ^[/quote]

Modern 11-speed Campag does not need a medium RD to run a 29 cog. The standard mech works all Campag cassette combinations.

mamil314

Plato: I would have gone for Ultegra for the 32 cassette, but then, you are much stronger than me, i have to spin like mofo on 34/27 just to get up silly molehills like Crocknorth and Box hill.

Mercia: thanks, i stand corrected! Is this for latest 2015 Campag groupsets or previous generation also? I was told not to do 29 on my 3yo short cage Chorus.

anjasola

Ultegra Di2 is a dream IMHO, I had a few teething problems with it but perhaps my fav groupset right now.

mercia_man

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19626121#p19626121]mamil314[/url] wrote:

Plato: I would have gone for Ultegra for the 32 cassette, but then, you are much stronger than me, i have to spin like mofo on 34/27 just to get up silly molehills like Crocknorth and Box hill.

Mercia: thanks, i stand corrected! Is this for latest 2015 Campag groupsets or previous generation also? I was told not to do 29 on my 3yo short cage Chorus.

As far as I can remember, Campag rear mechs changed in design when 11-speed was introduced in 2008, enabling the standard short cage RD to work with the new 12-29 11-speed cassette. That's what I use with a standard length Record mech on my most recent bike.

Campag used to recommend a medium length mech for the 13-29 10-speed cassette, and that's what I use on one of my bikes with a 2007 Chorus groupset although several members of this forum have used short-cage mechs successfully with this cassette. Just done a quick Google and it would appear 10-speed RD design was updated in 2011 enabling the standard mech to work with up to a 30 sprocket.

sloppyschleckonds

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19626136#p19626136]anjasola[/url] wrote:

Ultegra Di2 is a dream IMHO, I had a few teething problems with it but perhaps my fav groupset right now.

Its the dullest ugliest groupset available

slowmart

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19626258#p19626258]SloppySchleckonds[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19626136#p19626136]anjasola[/url] wrote:

Ultegra Di2 is a dream IMHO, I had a few teething problems with it but perhaps my fav groupset right now.

Its the dullest ugliest groupset available

Ever shagged a woman that resembles your description?


Exactly

mrb123

In my view you need to factor in the costs of replacing the parts you choose when they wear out. If you go for the bike with the £1000+ wheels, once you wear out the rims are you going to be able to afford to replace them like for like? If not, you're going to feel like you're downgrading your bike when you put some cheaper wheels on.

The frame should always be the priority. After that, if it's a straight choice between some very expensive (some would say overpriced) wheels and the groupset you prefer, go for the groupset. You generally won't wear out the mechs and shifters, and like people have said, in the real world you're unlikely to tell the difference in the wheels.

thegodplato

Well I know what you mean if the wheels fail, but surely that would have to be after some serious miles each year?
Would Ultegra be roughly the same as Chorus in terms of quality?

The Ultegra/SLR shod Ulitmate CF SLX is only £100 more than the CF SL Movistar Chorus/Euors version but its lighter frame and twice as expensive wheels so seems a real bargain to me. I'm saying this because Canyon do a CF SL version with just Ultegra/Ksyrium Elite wheels for £500 less than the Movistar Campag equivalent and £600 less than the SLX one.

keef66

I don't think I'd ever be able to spend £1000 on a factory wheelset. The chances of hitting a pothole and trashing a rim are just too high. It could be heartbreaking.

I've done a fair bit of percussive maintenance and occasional spoke replacement on my budget Shimano wheelsets to keep them true-ish. Not sure an ultra light wheel would've survived some of the hits I've sustained. Twice at night I've ridden into small but deep potholes that made me think I'd broken something in my wrist...

Anyway, in your position I'd go for the best frame, followed by the best groupset, and an acceptably good set of wheels last.

And by best I mean both function and appearance, so I'd probably be going for the Movistar colour scheme and Campag...

bontie

I skipped a few posts. Get the groupset you want. Its easy (and inevitable) to upgrade wheels later.

Personally id say the Chorus/Eurus is the best value, but I am biased :roll:

t4tomo

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19626264#p19626264]Slowmart[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19626258#p19626258]SloppySchleckonds[/url] wrote:

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19626136#p19626136]anjasola[/url] wrote:

Ultegra Di2 is a dream IMHO, I had a few teething problems with it but perhaps my fav groupset right now.

Its the dullest ugliest groupset available

Ever shagged a woman that resembles your description?


Exactly

I'm not sure how going like train because she's grateful for it applies to group sets?
That said Ultegra (mechanical 11sp) is an absolute joy in terms of shifting if a tad ugly.

thegodplato

The way I'm looking at it is this :
Campag one has an £800 groupset with £500 wheels
Ultegra is £500 groupset with £1000 wheels
or Di2 is £800 groupset with £4/500 wheels.

If Chorus and Ultegra are classed as being a similar level then having the better wheels for just £100 seems better to me?

thegreatdivide

Looks like you're trying to convince yourself that you want the matte black bike that picks up the greasy finger prints and has the grey wheels. If that's the case just buy it.

FWIW on the groupset hierarchy Chorus is above Ultegra.