Is 105 worth it?
Comments
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A reasonable way of looking at it used to be that this year's 105 is last year's Ultegra, and so on up and down the range. With 5800, this year's 105 is very much this year's Ultegra, with only aluminium brake levers and the lack of a Di2 option to distinguish them.
Sadly incorrect. 5800 is considerably smoother with less lever force needed for the FD than 6700, the hoods are a nicer shape and the weight difference in negligible. Rear shifting is comparable but thats about it. 5800 is comparable to 7900 IMO.0 -
A reasonable way of looking at it used to be that this year's 105 is last year's Ultegra, and so on up and down the range. With 5800, this year's 105 is very much this year's Ultegra, with only aluminium brake levers and the lack of a Di2 option to distinguish them.
Sadly incorrect. 5800 is considerably smoother with less lever force needed for the FD than 6700, the hoods are a nicer shape and the weight difference in negligible. Rear shifting is comparable but thats about it. 5800 is comparable to 7900 IMO.
Why are you comparing the new 105 5800 with Ultegra 6700 which was introduced in 2009? 6800 is the current Ultegra that Giraffoto refers to. I'd agree that the step up from 5800 to 6800 isn't that great.0 -
Blah blah blah used to be blah blah blah. With 5800, this year's 105 is very much this year's Ultegra, with only aluminium brake levers and the lack of a Di2 option to distinguish them.
Sadly incorrect. 5800 is considerably smoother with less lever force needed for the FD than 6700, the hoods are a nicer shape and the weight difference in negligible. Rear shifting is comparable but thats about it. 5800 is comparable to 7900 IMO.
Why are you comparing the new 105 5800 with Ultegra 6700 which was introduced in 2009? 6800 is the current Ultegra that Giraffoto refers to. I'd agree that the step up from 5800 to 6800 isn't that great.
Thank you for the clarification. I've had a brief test ride on a 6800 equipped bike, and 5800 is almost identical - they are the two I'm comparing.Specialized Roubaix Elite 2015
XM-057 rigid 29er0 -
I found the 6800 I test rode way better than the 5800 I had recently ridden, and I thought the 5800 was so much better than my own 5700.
It could have a lot to do with set up etc. of course, but I cannot help thinking its the price difference that often makes people say that a better groupset is 'not that much better', so that they are happier with getting the cheaper option.
Getting back to the original question though, yes, I would have to agree with everyone that says 5800 is definitely worth it.0 -
I found the 6800 I test rode way better than the 5800 I had recently ridden, and I thought the 5800 was so much better than my own 5700.
It could have a lot to do with set up etc. of course, . . .
I've got 5800 on my own Roubaix and I tried the Ultegra on a Trek, so it may well be set up! But I thought the brakes felt identical and the rear changer was as smooth on both. And I wholeheartedly agree that 5800 is a huge leap ahead of 5700, particularly the brake/shift levers.Specialized Roubaix Elite 2015
XM-057 rigid 29er0 -
When I rode 2 back to back, I reckon the amount needed to move makes the difference to it being smoother, 9 speed needs to move more than an eleven speed so it feels more of a push and more clunky.0
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Bob, Sorry to seem a bit thicker than usual but what's 'trimming'.
Where the chain rubs on the front derailleur and you shift slightly to move the mech away. More prevalent if you cross the chain across the blockM.Rushton0 -
I upgraded from Sora to 105 5800 the same as Bob. Massive difference, rear shifting is quick and sharp (Sora can be slow and sometimes requires a slight nudge of the lever to get it to go into gear), front shifting is easier - less lever movement required and less force, braking is much improved even with the stock pads on 105 vs Koolstop pads on Sora. It also makes the bike feel so much lighter, I wasn't expecting to notice it when riding but it makes the bike feel so much more lively and responsive.
I had a hard time trying to convince my cousin that I'd made a good upgrade with 5800, he was adamant that 105 was a bag of nails (he'd tried out 5700).
Don't pay more than £300 for it. I quite regularly see it at £275 in places so if you're patient, you should be able to get a good deal.0 -
As already said, there will probably be a big difference to what you have already- especially with the new brakes which pretty much set the standard for rim braking now.
I moved up from shimano 2300 to the old 105 (5700) earlier this year, and it makes a fair bit of difference for me. It means I have a 27t lowest cog instead of a 25t- very useful for the 15% plus gradients I regularly throw myself at, and have an extra cog hidden within the cassette as well.
The biggest effect is being able to shift just as well from the drops as the hoods, which means I can ride much more aggressively for longer now. The actual shifting is a little better, but not all that much tbh. However, the new 5800 will likely be better than the 5700 in that regard.0 -
Yeah - I was amazed at how good my brakes were on my new bike (with standard 5800 105 Calipers and pads) - I had Swisstop Green pads on my Sora calipers on my old one and they are so much less sharp (I did glaze them once though - 55 mph to 15 mph in not enough time - never been the same since)..
bob6397Boardman HT Team - Hardtail
Rose Pro-SL 2000 - Roadie0 -
A reasonable way of looking at it used to be that this year's 105 is last year's Ultegra, and so on up and down the range. With 5800, this year's 105 is very much this year's Ultegra, with only aluminium brake levers and the lack of a Di2 option to distinguish them.
Sadly incorrect. 5800 is considerably smoother with less lever force needed for the FD than 6700, the hoods are a nicer shape and the weight difference in negligible. Rear shifting is comparable but thats about it. 5800 is comparable to 7900 IMO.
Why are you comparing the new 105 5800 with Ultegra 6700 which was introduced in 2009? 6800 is the current Ultegra that Giraffoto refers to. I'd agree that the step up from 5800 to 6800 isn't that great.
I assumed that he meant 6700 and not 6800. As with all Shimano groupset revisions, there is a trickle down effect, for example 4700 will have hidden cables ala 5700.0 -
I assumed that he meant 6700 and not 6800. As with all Shimano groupset revisions, there is a trickle down effect, for example 4700 will have hidden cables ala 5700.
However, the design of 4700 mostly borrows from 5800/6800/9000, Tiagra effectively skipped the trickle down stuff from 5700/6700/7900.0 -
4700 follows from 5700, as its a 10 speed set up and has all the same pull ratio's for its cabling.
the more modern 6800/5800 is a generation newer and works so much better.0 -
4700 follows from 5700, as its a 10 speed set up and has all the same pull ratio's for its cabling.
the more modern 6800/5800 is a generation newer and works so much better.
You sure about that? The 4700 front mech looks like it has the longer arm like 5800 / 6800, so I'd expect the pull ratio for that at least to be different. You may be correct re the rear...
Wait for the inevitable Shimano compatibility tables to appear, take them with a pinch of salt, then wait for people to try mixing and matching various bits to see what works in the real world....0 -
4700, as far as I can tell, is 5700 with the revised front derailleur and a four arm crank.
4600 was 5600 with cheaper materials.
4700 with 6800/9000 cables would probably be the best possible current-gen ten speed option, but at that point you'd be knocking on for 5800 105 money.0 -
4700, as far as I can tell, is 5700 with the revised front derailleur and a four arm crank.
4600 was 5600 with cheaper materials.
Nope, 4700 is mostly 5800 with cheaper materials, and 10 speed. The shifters have also changed to the 11 speed style, and the rear derailleur is highly likely to have the new cable pull ratio - if you look at the Shimano dealer's manuals, the manuals are the same for the 9000/6800/5800/4700 family of shifters, and the 9000/6800/5800/4700 family of front and rear derailleurs. They have not been added to the 7900/6700/5700 series of manuals, so in my view it is highly likely that 4700 will have the same cable pull ratio as 5800/6800/9000. It will not be compatible with other 10-speed equipment.0 -
The 105 strikes an excellent balance of cost/performance. If you spend more you get diminishing returns rapidly. I have 105 in my all-weather Cannondale, and I love to ride it, and I don't miss at all the better shifters I have on other bikes. I believe a lot of improvements have trickled down to the current 105 from the more upmarket models, so except for weight you get most of the functionality and reliability you would get if you spent much more.0
