SuperSix rattle on rough roads

bazzer2
bazzer2 Posts: 189
edited April 2016 in Workshop
On rough roads (like, the ones that have been treated to a new coat of 'spray and lay' chippings then swept clean), the bike basically sounds like it's got a half pound of loose spanners in it. Smooth roads don't do it, and rough roads taken at gentle speed don't do it.

It's not coming from the front, and I would guess it's either bottom bracket or back. Because of the speed I need to go to make it rattle, I'm not able to diagnose exactly where.

I have recently changed my rear mech from Apex to Force 22. During the process, I made sure everything was torqued up to the correct(ish) settings, and I've made another pass at everything, twice since doing the work.

Can anyone suggest something I've not thought of yet please?

Comments

  • keef66
    keef66 Posts: 13,123
    You have anything in a seat pack that might be rattling? Frame mounted pump?
  • laurentian
    laurentian Posts: 2,471
    The first things I would check are: Cables, Bottle Cages and bottles in Cages? You may be surprised how the sound transfers and amplifies through the frame. I was recently totally convinced of a creak at the front of my bike . . . turns out tightening the saddle clamp sorted it . . .
    Wilier Izoard XP
  • plodder73
    plodder73 Posts: 326
    You can rule out the BB if it's only happening on rough roads. My guess would be the headset loose, that would make a noise on rough roads. Have you checked this?
  • jgsi
    jgsi Posts: 5,062
    Cables are internally routed, ??
    Highly likely culprit.
  • bazzer2
    bazzer2 Posts: 189
    Cables on the outside, but it's a similar kind of sound to me.
    I have a problem with the headset and although it's making a noise, it's not *that* noise. Replacement is on it's way, as the bearing outsides are pitted. Incidentally, I'm not even sure I need one because they're smooth running, but anyway...
    Bottles are new - I didn't think of that, they're ever so tacky to the touch, so it could be the answer! I'll take some bits off the bike and try it again.

    Cheers for the ideas!! :)
  • dee4life2005
    dee4life2005 Posts: 773
    Have you still got the washers on the valve stems ... if you do and they aren't tight against the rim then they can make an annoying rattle.

    Also check your rear derailleur isn't needing a good clean, as if it's clogged up with gunk it doesn't take up the chain slack as well which can cause a fair bit of chain slap on rough roads and sounds horrendous. This is usually easy to spot by a noticeable amount of oil on the driveside chainstay.
  • dee4life2005
    dee4life2005 Posts: 773
    One other thing I've hard on mine recently with Ultegra shifters is that if the brake cable is just a fraction too loose then you'll get an annoying rattle from the shifter on rough roads. lightly holding the brake/shifter lever cures it - as does tightening the cable a fraction to remove all slack.
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 15,827
    I tracked one of these down to the levers of some Mavic skewers. I have new skewers now.
  • mugensi
    mugensi Posts: 559
    I've had rattles from brake cables knocking off each other on rougher surfaces. It took me nearly 2 weeks to diagnose.

    I've also had a rattle develop after buying a new water bottle, removing the bottle while on a rough surface cured the problem.

    The most annoying rattle I ever had turned out to be from my saddle bag, it was an allen key rattling off a CO2 cartridge. It was driving me nuts for about a month till i got forgot the saddle pouch on one spin and instantly noticed the lack of the rattle, i didnt realise I'd forgotten the pouch until i returned home and seen it sitting on the kitchen counter, I gave it a little shake and heard the annoying rattle.

    I think most can be cured by tightening/re`positioning pouches/bottles etc
  • robbo2011
    robbo2011 Posts: 1,017
    Chain slapping on the stay?
  • bazzer2
    bazzer2 Posts: 189
    So, it's not: Bottle, cage, pump, brake cable, tools.
    It might be:
    Rear mech cable loop (which is mahooosive, and I've taped it to the frame, but it could still be waggling)
    Bottom bracket cable guide
    Pedals (unlikely though, they're still attached after 60 miles of rattling!)
    Wheel or wheel parts (although this seems unlikely as I'm sure I can 'feel' the rattle through the pedals, valve stems don't have nuts on)
    Headset

    It's a new Force 22 rear mech (so not gummed up), and on smooth roads today it struck me that it's much much quieter than the Apex. So perhaps it's that I can't hear transmission noise and hence any rattles seem louder?
  • itboffin
    itboffin Posts: 20,061
    I had the same problem recently on my Scott turns out the cassette wasn't tight enough due to the wrong placement of a hub washer behind the SRAM cassette, I removed it and silence followed.
    Rule #5 // Harden The Feck Up.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
    Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
    Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.
  • luv2ride
    luv2ride Posts: 2,367
    I had the same problem recently on my Scott turns out the cassette wasn't tight enough due to the wrong placement of a hub washer behind the SRAM cassette, I removed it and silence followed.
    ^This, I had a similar issue with some new wheels on my CR1. That said, I sent out without my seat pack last night and the absence of rattling was startling. Considering using a 'tool bidon', or carrying stuff in jersey pockets like a purist now!
    Titus Silk Road Ti rigid 29er - Scott Solace 10 disc - Kinesis Crosslight Pro6 disc - Scott CR1 SL - Pinnacle Arkose X 650b - Pinnacle Arkose singlespeed - Specialized Singlecross...& an Ernie Ball Musicman Stingray 4 string...
  • itboffin
    itboffin Posts: 20,061
    doesnt help that the roads in Windshire are basically loosely connected patches of broken stone, flint, thorns and gravel

    but yes the cassette does make a huge difference
    Rule #5 // Harden The Feck Up.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
    Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
    Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.
  • bazzer2
    bazzer2 Posts: 189
    Development: just happened to check the cassette again last evening, and would you believe it, it was loose-ish. I've tightened it up now (40NM seems like a LOT of torque for a lockring) but can't test as I lost my rag and called in the big boys (LBS) who collected it at 10pm last night for a proper service.

    I'll let people know what the problem was though, if it's not the loose cassette it will be found by the mech guru.
  • itboffin
    itboffin Posts: 20,061
    My money is still on the cassette, I changed the spacer on my last weekend and enjoyed the fit silent ride since I build the bike over a year ago oh and I set three PBs on the test ride.

    Hope you get it sorted soon. Silence is golden!
    Rule #5 // Harden The Feck Up.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
    Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
    Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.
  • primalcarl
    primalcarl Posts: 579
    What cassette spacer did you guys have before/after? Some come with a simple metal washer, others more like the spacer that goes inbetween the sprockets
  • bazzer2
    bazzer2 Posts: 189
    Update / solution: The fecking cassette! Whoohoo, silent bike again!
  • itboffin
    itboffin Posts: 20,061
    See told ya
    Rule #5 // Harden The Feck Up.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
    Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
    Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.
  • beancounter
    beancounter Posts: 369
    Update / solution: The ******* cassette! Whoohoo, silent bike again!

    What wheel / cassette is it - did you need to put in a spacer?
    2013 Colnago Master 30th Anniversary
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    1995 Lemond Gan Team
  • bazzer2
    bazzer2 Posts: 189
    Shimano RS81 C24, SRAM PG1080, and yes there already was a spacer in there, but I think when I assembled it I didn't pay too much attention to the frankly hilarious 40NM legend on the lockring! :lol:
  • itboffin
    itboffin Posts: 20,061
    an update for anyone in the future finding this thread

    yesterday i swapped back to the 105 27T cassette for my upcoming trip to the alps and i'd expected the rattle to return however i found that at some point i'd lost a chain link inner ring thingy and whilst i had achieved silent running there was a sort of clicking sticky chain over every now and then, now i know why.

    plus i fitted a longer new chain for the bigger cassette.

    Silent hill riding today only the huffing from me :)
    Rule #5 // Harden The Feck Up.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
    Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
    Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.
  • twoniner
    twoniner Posts: 19
    bazzer2 wrote:
    On rough roads (like, the ones that have been treated to a new coat of 'spray and lay' chippings then swept clean), the bike basically sounds like it's got a half pound of loose spanners in it. Smooth roads don't do it, and rough roads taken at gentle speed don't do it.

    It's not coming from the front, and I would guess it's either bottom bracket or back. Because of the speed I need to go to make it rattle, I'm not able to diagnose exactly where.

    I have recently changed my rear mech from Apex to Force 22. During the process, I made sure everything was torqued up to the correct(ish) settings, and I've made another pass at everything, twice since doing the work.

    Can anyone suggest something I've not thought of yet please?

    i have a 2016 evo ultegra 3. and when i hit rough roads and i start hammering out of the saddle.. i hear a weird tinny, rattle coming from the back end i can't figure it out.. driving me nuts.. LBS says nothings wrong.. but none of the bikes i demoed made that noise
  • bazzer2
    bazzer2 Posts: 189
    Cassette lockring?
  • itboffin
    itboffin Posts: 20,061
    Take everything off the bike including bottle cages and go for a ride, that's the best place to start then if you can get a mate to ride with you because often someone else can hear and tell where the noise is coming from
    Rule #5 // Harden The Feck Up.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
    Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
    Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.