Wiggo…Did he put the record "out in the long grass"???

vinnymarsden

Awesome ride..and allegedly not ideal in the velo for optimum distance etc.However he put a big chunk into the record..but my Q is..did he kick it out in the long grass as one of the commentators said he wanted to do? Did he put it so far out of reach that no one will make an attempt for a while…I personally think not…its feasible that someone could come along and take it that bit further, its just gone far enough out there to still be tempting to push past 55km.
Im taking NOTHING away from SBW…it was a lesson in calculated measured pacing…and there are few riders who could do it in my opinion…but I do think 55 is doable in the right conditions, I think he knew he could have gone further if the velo had been at its optimum condition…so for me..the record is still tantalisingly in reach for someone, but the crux is it clearly takes a lot out of the rider…and for anyone to try going 55+ would need to be their sole focus for a couple of months..SBW is not doing much at the top level right just now so can recover as slowly as he likes working towards what can only be assumed will be more track glory in Rio 2016, it wouldn't surprise me to see him back at the hour record again before Rio if I'm honest!

markhewitt1978

If one person can do it then another person can beat it. It's the way of things.

andrewjoseph

he didn't look absolutely spent at the end.

inseine

Velodromes are now called velos? That's a new one on me.

Crozza

inseine wrote:

Velodromes are now called velos? That's a new one on me.

so are sentences that run for 7 lines of text

dish_dash

Add this to the list of questions to which the answer is no

Mad_Malx

andrewjoseph wrote:

he didn't look absolutely spent at the end.

Xavier's graph on the other thread suggests that he did absolute max - speed was dropping, when he probably planned to increase in the last quarter.

Yellow Peril

I think any assault n that requires an exceptional rider, huge resources and time. Bringing those sorts of thing together (as in Land Speed records etc) is quintessentially British as there is no money in it.

It would take a tester of the calibre of tony Martin with the backing of say Mercedes, a couple of months and the right conditions so quite a few variables there.

Mad_Malx

Anyone know what the air pressure was for Dowsett's attempt?
He did look like he was capable of a little more, but not another 3 %.

RichN95.

Mad_Malx wrote:

Anyone know what the air pressure was for Dowsett's attempt?
He did look like he was capable of a little more, but not another 3 %.

I saw someone say it was 1012 mbar (to Wiggins's 1036)

mr_poll

No.

Had the air pressure been right and given him the extra km it was claimed so he then did a 55.5 then yes it would be. As someone earlier in the thread had said to break that would need time, resources and an exceptional athlete to take time out of their pro contract to fully commit which I couldnt see for such a distance.
54.5 with the perfect conditions is highly possible for a Martin/Dowsett et al.

ManOfKent

From his interviews I get the impression he really hopes other people will have a go at the record. In that sense it's probably a good thing he didn't reach his own target.

Now the possible contenders have had a chance to digest the new target, who will be the next person to announce an attempt?

RichN95.

ManOfKent wrote:

From his interviews I get the impression he really hopes other people will have a go at the record. In that sense it's probably a good thing he didn't reach his own target.

Now the possible contenders have had a chance to digest the new target, who will be the next person to announce an attempt?

I get the impression that he wants a reason to have another go (in better conditions). And the only valid reason to him would be if someone had broken his record.

joelsim

The only rider capable of beating that at the moment in TM. Maybe Dumoulin in a year or two will be too. Other than that I'm not sure.

milton50

Cancellara of a couple of years ago could beat that but I'm not sure he could now.

If there was one record made for Wiggo it's the hour. His physiological attributes, his track background and his position on the bike, combine perfectly. I am fairly sure he himself could beat that mark but I'm not sure many others can. Have any other big names confirmed that they are interested in making an attempt?

bigmat

I reckon with "average" air pressure he would have been another 3 laps up last night, with ideal low pressure conditions maybe another 3 laps, so in optimal conditions he could probably go close to 56kph - I think that was what he was getting at when he suggested that Boardman's record might be beatable. I don't think he had anything left in the tank yesterday, he was slowing towards the end and looked right on the limit. If I was him I would plan another effort in the near future, done nice and low key in the velodrome with the best possible conditions. He's supposed to have done 54.9 in training so he can't possibly be satisfied with that distance can he?!

As for whether anyone else could beat the record, I think it is low enough that Dowsett might have another go. He had plenty left for his effort, maybe up to another km which would take him tantalisingly close. Martin obviously has the engine, and I suspect that one of the Russians / Kazakhs might come out of the woodwork and blitz it.

thomthom

BigMat wrote:

As for whether anyone else could beat the record, I think it is low enough that Dowsett might have another go. He had plenty left for his effort, maybe up to another km which would take him tantalisingly close. Martin obviously has the engine, and I suspect that one of the Russians / Kazakhs might come out of the woodwork and blitz it.

With respect for Dowsett, if he's having another go because he feels the record is in reach, then Wiggins didn't go fast enough.

Daz555

ThomThom wrote:

With respect for Dowsett, if he's having another go because he feels the record is in reach, then Wiggins didn't go fast enough.

It is very attackable. The view is that compared to the day Dowsett set his record, Wiggo was as much as 1km down simply because of the air (I've seen estimates from 700m to 1km). On very low pressure day, Dowsett is surely only 500m or so behind Wiggo. That is doable.

If Wiggo had ridden last night on a super low pressure day (as Boardman says was the case for his 56km+ ride) then the record would have been out of sight for years.

As it is now - it is totally attackable. A very good tester on a good day will think they have a chance. This is very good for the hour record. Wiggo posting 55.5+km yesterday would have killed it for a few years.

I think Hutch might be right - this record could fall within a year if someone gets lucky with the weather.

Daz555

VinnyMarsden wrote:

SBW is not doing much at the top level right just now so can recover as slowly as he likes working towards what can only be assumed will be more track glory in Rio 2016, it wouldn't surprise me to see him back at the hour record again before Rio if I'm honest!

He needs to make the GB pursuit squad. This is not a given. Also if GB are going to beat the Aussies they cannot afford to have a rider distracted by anything at all.

I can't see the Hour being compatible with being a top class TP rider. It seems to be more and more specialized - Hoy described the modern TP as a sprint event - each rider has to be able to explode with pace as they hit the wind - sprint, rest, sprint rest, etc.

andrewjoseph

Mad_Malx wrote:

andrewjoseph wrote:

he didn't look absolutely spent at the end.

Xavier's graph on the other thread suggests that he did absolute max - speed was dropping, when he probably planned to increase in the last quarter.

I dunno, able to get off and lift his bike up and chat with people instead of laying gasping on the floor.

JackPozzi

It's an odd one because I certainly don't see it as being on the shelf, but I can't see it being a priority for any rider capable of taking it. Whoever attempts to now needs to be targetting it and I can't see many of the teams allowing their rider to focus just on the hour record, Wiggins has been in the ideal situation of pretty much ending his road career and has been able to use the hour to fill time before settling down to the very different training required for the TP, who else is going to be in that position for a while?

Daz555

andrewjoseph wrote:

Mad_Malx wrote:

andrewjoseph wrote:

he didn't look absolutely spent at the end.

Xavier's graph on the other thread suggests that he did absolute max - speed was dropping, when he probably planned to increase in the last quarter.

I dunno, able to get off and lift his bike up and chat with people instead of laying gasping on the floor.

If you are unable to stand at the end then how bad must your last few laps have been? Pretty terrible I'd say.

takethehighroad

Dowsett seemed confident he could have gone further on his hour, in that he was only on pace to beat Dennis' record, not go as far as possible.

Also, how much difference does the air pressure actually have? Genuine question, as I've seen a lot made of it and I'm not too convinced (with my non scientific brain)

Daz555

TakeTheHighRoad wrote:

Dowsett seemed confident he could have gone further on his hour, in that he was only on pace to beat Dennis' record, not go as far as possible.

Also, how much difference does the air pressure actually have? Genuine question, as I've seen a lot made of it and I'm not too convinced (with my non scientific brain)

Chris Boardman knows a thing or two about it, as does Obree. Both have commented on how much of an important factor it plays - and the talk is that a pressure of 1036 millibars will cost you 700m to 1km compared to a more average 1010 day. If Wiggo had got super lucky and got a sub 1000 millbar day he might have got close to 56km - who knows. Boardman himself credits a fair portion of his 56km+ ride to the low pressure over Manchester on the day.

"Also, how much difference does the air pressure actually have" - air resistance is EVERYTHING (well almost!) when it comes to cycling at speed so yes the pressure has a significant effect. If you want to look up the maths you can use the pressure and temperature to calculate how many kg's of air there is in each metre cubed. This tells you there is simply more air to push out of the way on a heavy/sticky day.

The facts are that a rider can do X watts for given time. The only variable is the air - on a thick air day 430 watts is going to get you a 16.4s lap for example. On a thinner air day the same 430 watts might get you round in 16.1 secs. It all adds up and there is nothing a rider can do about it - well they can raise the temp to try and thin it out a bit but there is a penalty for the rider to pay there too.

This is why Wiggo's schedule and gearing was adjusted on the day - for the simple fact he would be going slower than he'd hoped for.

takethehighroad

Daz555 wrote:

TakeTheHighRoad wrote:

Dowsett seemed confident he could have gone further on his hour, in that he was only on pace to beat Dennis' record, not go as far as possible.

Also, how much difference does the air pressure actually have? Genuine question, as I've seen a lot made of it and I'm not too convinced (with my non scientific brain)

Chris Boardman knows a thing or two about it, as does Obree. Both have commented on how much of an important factor it plays - and the talk is that a pressure of 1036 millibars will cost you 700m to 1km compared to a more average 1010 day. If Wiggo had got super lucky and got a sub 1000 millbar day he might have got close to 56km - who knows. Boardman himself credits a fair portion of his 56km+ ride to the low pressure over Manchester on the day.

"Also, how much difference does the air pressure actually have" - air resistance is EVERYTHING (well almost!) when it comes to cycling at speed so yes the pressure has a significant effect. If you want to look up the maths you can use the pressure and temperature to calculate how many kg's of air there is in each metre cubed. This tells you there is simply more air to push out of the way on a heavy/sticky day.

The facts are that a rider can do X watts for given time. The only variable is the air - on a thick air day 430 watts is going to get you a 16.4s lap for example. On a thinner air day the same 430 watts might get you round in 16.1 secs. It all adds up and there is nothing a rider can do about it - well they can raise the temp to try and thin it out a bit but there is a penalty for the rider to pay there too.

This is why Wiggo's schedule and gearing was adjusted on the day - for the simple fact he would be going slower than he'd hoped for.

My non scientific brain loved that, cheers :P

Spose the worst thing to do for an attempt is sell tickets to it, as then you're predisposed to do it at a certain time, when the conditions may not be right.

vinnymarsden

As the OP…I have been out on my bike today, and i can confirm…super high pressure DEFFO slows you down!!! Went to a cafe in the Peaks and spoke to an elderly guy who claimed to have involvement at the Manchester VELODROME (correction for the English teachers!) He was telling me, although highly impressed with last night, he honestly thought that he would have gone further/faster at the M/chester track, he claimed it to be faster.There are clearly fast/slow venues for lots of sports..I'm a Sheffield lad..and the Ponds Forge pool when initially built was considered one of the "fastest" in the world, and still the same size as all the others! So there must be something to the location/build of any venue that gives it that certain something making it quicker.
If Manchester is known to be better then I bet the next attempt will be there, because for all it's high tech door seals etc the Lee Valley one didn't deliver "perfect" conditions.Just my 2pennorth
For me, when you look at the legend that is Eddy Merckx, he went 49 and bits on a standard road bike, all those years ago..that shows the sheer power of the man, my ultimate cycling "hero"! No one comes close at all.

oldwelshman

BigMat wrote:

I reckon with "average" air pressure he would have been another 3 laps up last night, with ideal low pressure conditions maybe another 3 laps, so in optimal conditions he could probably go close to 56kph - I think that was what he was getting at when he suggested that Boardman's record might be beatable. I don't think he had anything left in the tank yesterday, he was slowing towards the end and looked right on the limit. If I was him I would plan another effort in the near future, done nice and low key in the velodrome with the best possible conditions. He's supposed to have done 54.9 in training so he can't possibly be satisfied with that distance can he?!

As for whether anyone else could beat the record, I think it is low enough that Dowsett might have another go. He had plenty left for his effort, maybe up to another km which would take him tantalisingly close. Martin obviously has the engine, and I suspect that one of the Russians / Kazakhs might come out of the woodwork and blitz it.

Dowsett may have squeezed another lap but 7? Just imagine being in a Maddison and being lapped 7 times lol

oldwelshman

andrewjoseph wrote:

Mad_Malx wrote:

andrewjoseph wrote:

he didn't look absolutely spent at the end.

Xavier's graph on the other thread suggests that he did absolute max - speed was dropping, when he probably planned to increase in the last quarter.

I dunno, able to get off and lift his bike up and chat with people instead of laying gasping on the floor.

Lying gasping on the floor would have meant he maxed out, if you max out on a pursuit you can easily lose a second a lap, his effort was paced perfectly and he was very close to max at end which is why his pace slowed, but that was not a huge dip. Top TP riders can pace within .1sec a lap that is over a bike length or two depending on your speed. I once went off too fast (common mistake) and when I saw my marker walk 20m I knew I was fooked lol I lost a whole second next lap then 2 on last lap !!

frenchfighter

How many metres do you think you can gain by going properly into the red at the end?
5km/h faster? For 30-60 seconds? 40-80m (0.04-0.08 km).

Not sure whether those extra metres are worth the apparent no-effort-at-all wind down

oldwelshman

Daz555 wrote:

TakeTheHighRoad wrote:

Dowsett seemed confident he could have gone further on his hour, in that he was only on pace to beat Dennis' record, not go as far as possible.

Also, how much difference does the air pressure actually have? Genuine question, as I've seen a lot made of it and I'm not too convinced (with my non scientific brain)

Chris Boardman knows a thing or two about it, as does Obree. Both have commented on how much of an important factor it plays - and the talk is that a pressure of 1036 millibars will cost you 700m to 1km compared to a more average 1010 day. If Wiggo had got super lucky and got a sub 1000 millbar day he might have got close to 56km - who knows. Boardman himself credits a fair portion of his 56km+ ride to the low pressure over Manchester on the day.

"Also, how much difference does the air pressure actually have" - air resistance is EVERYTHING (well almost!) when it comes to cycling at speed so yes the pressure has a significant effect. If you want to look up the maths you can use the pressure and temperature to calculate how many kg's of air there is in each metre cubed. This tells you there is simply more air to push out of the way on a heavy/sticky day.

The facts are that a rider can do X watts for given time. The only variable is the air - on a thick air day 430 watts is going to get you a 16.4s lap for example. On a thinner air day the same 430 watts might get you round in 16.1 secs. It all adds up and there is nothing a rider can do about it - well they can raise the temp to try and thin it out a bit but there is a penalty for the rider to pay there too.

This is why Wiggo's schedule and gearing was adjusted on the day - for the simple fact he would be going slower than he'd hoped for.

Don't forget rider position, all the wattage and pressure calculations in the world are of no use if you do not hold your position on the bike.

gaffer_slow

one factor about another attempt now is that the failure to success ratio is different.

at 54.4 it is probably within reach given the right rider in the right conditions with the right preparation.
but the chance of failure is high. is someone going to risk failure when there is likely more chance of failure than success?