spoke tension
Clockworkmark31
Posts: 1,053
Hey all,
Quick question about spoke tension. Started hearing my front wheel creaking the more I leaned forward or cornering etc. Figured the spokes nipples need tweaking (adjusting) after the wheels not being touched since new. Went and bought the park tools gadget thing. And tightened the nipples one full turn, seems to have eliminated the creaking 95% but just how tight is too much?
Quick question about spoke tension. Started hearing my front wheel creaking the more I leaned forward or cornering etc. Figured the spokes nipples need tweaking (adjusting) after the wheels not being touched since new. Went and bought the park tools gadget thing. And tightened the nipples one full turn, seems to have eliminated the creaking 95% but just how tight is too much?
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Parktools
Rims Giant S-XC2 27.5 wheelset
Hubs Giant Tracker Sport
Spokes Stainless Steel
Tyres Schwalbe Rapid Rob, 27.5x2.25"
Sorry if it sounds censored , But working in electronics manufacturing I know that a thermal difference of a few degrees outside of spec on a ceramic SMT capacitor will place thermal/mechanical stress on the component, and you wouldn't know about it until 6-12 months later. By this point the capacitor is leaky (takes time for a stress fracture to manifest) and has caused further damage to a electronic device.
Is this not the same? If someone at Giant quoted me 100kg per spoke then that is within Giants specs and tolerances. With no data available or from what I can find, how would buying a spoke tension tool help with no datum to compare it to?
Sorry if I went of topic, but just curious? Have eliminated all creaks now and spokes have a uniform sounding twang.
The sound and tension front to back are probably different due to different length spokes due to different flange sizes and offset due to discs, cassette, etc. Spokes on opposite sides of the same wheel will often have different tensions. So all of the spokes on the drive side rear should have equal tension, non drive side will probably be different but should all match each other. Front wheel again match tensions on each side.
In very simple terms higher tension gives a stronger wheel, until you go too far and break something that is. Rims are usually the limiting factor I believe. Look up the tension according to what rims you have. Then go close to the maximum tension on the side that needs to be tighter. The other side match the tensions at whatever they need to be to keep the wheel centred and true.
If tension is too low when the spoke is at the bottom of the wheel it becomes unloaded and can then loosen. Obviously this is a bad thing.
Marin Nail Trail
Cotic Solaris
I have got them running fairly true, and have tightened the nipples to eliminate the sound I was experiencing before. But how would I know if I was over tightening?
I do agree with something like park tools spoke tension gauge and the app that comes with it so you can see the spread of the tension. But you need the base tension for this to work. If you don't have the base tension how do you know you are setting the tension correctly?
I disagree. There is no reason to go beyond 'tight enough', despite what is often quoted. Higher tension doesn't make for stiffer wheels either. What is 'tight enough' is another question though.
Higher tension does not make for higher stiffness, but it does make it stronger as the higher the tension, the higher the force the wheel can handle before spokes go loose, and spokes going loose is the only way a wheel can fail apart from localised forces that can bend the rim.
So yes, spoke tension is critical.
Good builders have a great feel for tension, but may still measure it, mainly to make sure that they don't go over the limits set by the hub flanges or rim pullout.
Spokes will never work themselves tighter during use, they can only loosen.
Tighter spokes have a far less tendency to loosen due to higher friction forces on the threads.
So higher strung wheels tend to be more reliable.
I do agree with the last 3 posts, but my question still remains with no data available why would you use a spoke tension gauge to measure it, what are you comparing it to?
So if no data is available or hard to find, how would you know what the tension should be? I know the general rule of thumb is twang the spokes and if you have a high pitched sound then it is good. But this could lead to more permanent damage.
If you were to use this approach I could keep on using an uncalibrated ruler against another uncalibrated ruler, the next thing you know I now have a 2 foot member.
I believe having even tension on each side is more important and a gauge will help you achieve this more accurately.
I'm no expert though, I've only built a few wheels and this is what I understand from reading various bits and pieces. Quite happy to be corrected and learn more as I go.
Marin Nail Trail
Cotic Solaris
Plenty of data available if you look for it or ask the manufacturer. For instance stans publish spoke tensions for all their rims on their website.
I am asking if the data is unavailable then why would you use a spoke tension guide, what are you comparing the data to and how would you know that the spoke tension falls within the set parameters of the manufacturer. Yes I could call them and eventually find the information out, but if the information is not available and you have wheel builders saying it is ok, who is it ok with there own parameters or the parameters it was designed for?
There is no point in using a spoke tension gauge unless you have the data for what said wheel should be calibrated against.
It is a waste of time.
Your argument is massively flawed, you say that there is no information, yet there is and argue that a tension gauge is useless without knowing the tension needed, which is perfectly true but that information is readily available.
The main thing you're looking for is even tension which requires no datum. However, you can calculate the appropriate range of tension for your spokes off of the chart provided with the tool. This will give you a range of appropriate tensions for the type of spoke you are running (converted as the spoke thickness of course effects the reading). Once you know this then its the application of common sense as to whether you might stick with that or adjust it up or down a little.
+ some other bikes.
Thank you,
This makes sense, I just couldn't see the point of a tension gauge with nothing to compare it to. But if you use to check for an even spread or general tension is even I get it.
As to the data being available let me tell you I have looked for it and had a chat with Giant and no data was given. This is why I was questioning what is the point of the gauge if you have no datum to compare it to.