Rear wheel not spinning freely

llen
llen Posts: 65
edited June 2015 in Workshop
Hi

I order some hand built wheels at xmas which I've only tonight managed to put on my bike ready for a ride tomorrow morning. whilst reindexing my gears I noticed that the wheel would only continue to revolve for about 5 seconds maximum. I checked to see that the brakes weren't rubbing or anything else for that matter but nothing. I continued to spin my rear wheel and still it did not spin freely. I replaced with my old stock wheels for a comparison and they continued spinning for well over a minute before I stopped them.

I then replaced with the new wheel again and continued to spin it and I have noticed a slight improvement but still nowhere near the old wheel.

Any reasons why? Is is true that new rear wheels need to be 'ridden in' before the grease, bearings, etc actually settle down?

Thanks for any help in advance.

Comments

  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,167
    How does the wheel spin when it is not in the frame?
  • llen
    llen Posts: 65
    Sorry I'm not very technical when you say spin off the bike do you mean simply spinning it around the qr skewer???
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,167
    llen wrote:
    Sorry I'm not very technical when you say spin off the bike do you mean simply spinning it around the qr skewer???
    No, hold it by the end caps - the things that press against the inside of the dropouts - so that the wheel rotates by the bearings.

    What I'm trying to see is whether the bearings are overloaded. If its better out of the frame, there just might be too much pre-load on them. I had an American classic hub once which was a nightmare to get right.

    First step - is it better when the quick releases aren't tightened? If its the same, there is possibly some other problem.

    Just so you know, though, bearing "striction" isn't usually a massive issue in practice. Most cranks will go round a turn or so before stopping. They may free up later. I worry if my pedals rotate freely at all. Okay, so a wheel has way more angular momentum, but you may find that over time the bearings bed in.
  • llen
    llen Posts: 65
    Thanks for you help. I'll check in the morning and report back
  • llen
    llen Posts: 65
    Nope no better out of the frame. I shall be contacting the wheel builder. Thanks for your help.
  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    Could simply be down to bearing seal drag given they're new wheels - I would doubt a competent wheelbuilder would let a pair of wheels out their shop without checking the hub bearings.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • llen
    llen Posts: 65
    How does the bearing seal drag issue get solved ?
  • wishitwasallflat
    wishitwasallflat Posts: 2,927
    llen wrote:
    How does the bearing seal drag issue get solved ?

    What hubs?
  • llen
    llen Posts: 65
    Miche primato
  • freezing77
    freezing77 Posts: 731
    llen wrote:
    How does the bearing seal drag issue get solved ?

    Ride the bike. This will wear away the bearing seal.
  • wishitwasallflat
    wishitwasallflat Posts: 2,927
    llen wrote:
    Miche primato

    As said it's almost defo just cause there is plenty grease and the seals are in prime condition - both of which will decrease with time. I too can't imagine any worthwhile wheel builder would send out their product without checking the preload - but - the only other real possibility is that the preload is to high which is dead easy to check and adjust. Undo the little grub screw on the red preload adjuster and then loosen it off (or tighten it) so it's at the minimal tightness which eliminates any play. If it can't be loosened from where it is now, without creating play then you know for sure its just the seals and grease that's making it look wrong to you and it will wear in with riding.

    PS I've just got a set of Miche primato hub wheels from cycleclinic and they don't run as free as older ones I have with miche hubs but they've only done 30 miles so I'm not at all bothered.
  • llen
    llen Posts: 65
    Ok thanks for all the advice and reassurance
  • llen
    llen Posts: 65
    Ok problem sorted. It was the preload issue. Thanks for the instruction. Although I didn't find it as straightforward as someone more experienced I got there in the end.
  • wishitwasallflat
    wishitwasallflat Posts: 2,927
    llen wrote:
    Ok problem sorted. It was the preload issue. Thanks for the instruction. Although I didn't find it as straightforward as someone more experienced I got there in the end.

    glad to hear its sorted but be sure to check it again in 100 miles or so as if play develops it is not good for the bearings. I did mine once and was sure it was spot on whine I set it but I re-checked a few weeks later and it had play! - so I re-set it and its been fine since. Not sure why it happened (maybe I didn't snug up the grub screw enough and it loosened off?) but it did and its a five second job to check both wheels for play so I do it routinely and regularly now.

    Still amazed any wheelbuilder would send out their product without checking that though!
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    Miche preload caps are always done a bit tight. When they are too tight the red cap can even shear. Best to release 1/8 of a turn or so... just enough to avoid having play
    left the forum March 2023
  • wishitwasallflat
    wishitwasallflat Posts: 2,927
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Miche preload caps are always done a bit tight. When they are too tight the red cap can even shear. Best to release 1/8 of a turn or so... just enough to avoid having play

    Thanks ugo - I know you don't know every builder's policy or practice but wondered if just in your own opinion do you feel I/we were wrong to assume that builders would check and adjust pre-load themselves before sending wheels out then?
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    wishitwasallflat wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Miche preload caps are always done a bit tight. When they are too tight the red cap can even shear. Best to release 1/8 of a turn or so... just enough to avoid having play

    Thanks ugo - I know you don't know every builder's policy or practice but wondered if just in your own opinion do you feel I/we were wrong to assume that builders would check and adjust pre-load themselves before sending wheels out then?

    To be honest I think the OP preload is fine, it does loosen up after a few miles. If it's hard to turn by hand then it is a different matter
    left the forum March 2023
  • wishitwasallflat
    wishitwasallflat Posts: 2,927
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    wishitwasallflat wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Miche preload caps are always done a bit tight. When they are too tight the red cap can even shear. Best to release 1/8 of a turn or so... just enough to avoid having play

    Thanks ugo - I know you don't know every builder's policy or practice but wondered if just in your own opinion do you feel I/we were wrong to assume that builders would check and adjust pre-load themselves before sending wheels out then?


    To be honest I think the OP preload is fine, it does loosen up after a few miles. If it's hard to turn by hand then it is a different matter

    Thanks
  • llen
    llen Posts: 65
    I did a 50 miler on them prior to adjusting the preload - should it have loosened up by then? At that point in time the wheel only revolved for about 7-10 secs
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    llen wrote:
    I did a 50 miler on them prior to adjusting the preload - should it have loosened up by then? At that point in time the wheel only revolved for about 7-10 secs

    it's hard to say... it's not an exact recipe like making a cake... if you think it wasn't free enough, then you did the right thing by reducing the preload...

    I don't normally spin a wheel with a stopwatch, but 7-10 seconds for a rear wheel doesn't sound outrageously tight to me. There are 4 rather large bearings.
    left the forum March 2023
  • llen
    llen Posts: 65
    Crikey - hacing reread the post I'm questioning whether I have done the adjustment correctly. This is what I did.

    With the rear wheel out of the frame of the bike and no cassette on (I had taken it off previously) I removed the grub screw completely. I then tried to turn the red cap but the whole axle kept turnig with it. So I removed one of the end caps and pulled the axle through a little. I then still had to put an allen key in the remaining end cap whilst simultaneously turning the red cap with a spanner. I would then quickly put the other end cap back on and check for play and spinning.

    I stopped adjusting and replaced the grub screw when the when span for ages and there was no play (by this I mean there was no wiggle room when I replace the end cap and tried to move everything around). I then put the cassette back on an put the wheel back on my bike.

    Is that correct? I must admit I found turning the red cap bit quite hard - it was quite tight.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,312
    The correct way is to do none of that. Simply undo the 2.5 mm Allen bolt, turn the red cap anti clockwise 1/8 of a turn and tighten (gently) the allen bolt. Check there is no lateral play and that you are happy
    left the forum March 2023
  • llen
    llen Posts: 65
    I tried that initially. But the red cap would not move independently??? that's why I ended up doing what I did!!
  • wishitwasallflat
    wishitwasallflat Posts: 2,927
    [url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19621160#p19621160]llen[/url] wrote:
    I tried that initially. But the red cap would not move independently??? that's why I ended up doing what I did!!

    I do mine while the bike is locked in the turbo but in a work stand or even flip it upside down would work, then you can adjust the preload while the wheel is still locked in the frame with QR tight, spin it and feel for play. I do the front wheel just lifting it off the floor to spin it. It's a superb system after faffing about with cup and cone it's a joy!
  • llen
    llen Posts: 65
    Having read the posts I had another look at the bike whilst in the turbo and now it works a treat and as you say is really easy.

    Thanks both

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