Pearl Izumi Tour Series

ManOfKent

Any thoughts on this? Eight rounds down, two to go.

I considered going to watch at Canary Wharf last night but ended up riding my bike instead.

I'd be interested to know the thinking behind the changes to the team ranking and particularly why they no longer allow a lap out for a crash/mechanical. It seems to have left two teams well ahead and the rest now just riding for individual goals - or maybe that was the intention all along.

Pedal Heaven are doing brilliantly though, a good start for One Pro Cycling and Chris Lawless looks a bright prospect at 19. Where's he come from?

BTW, good to see the women's series getting a decent amount of time within the TV programmes, even if the standard of the racing looks rather uneven.

Omar Little

I'm not a fan of the new format - with every rider counting and no laps out allowed so much of the competition is now down to the team having the fewest amount of flats, mechanicals or crashes.

I suppose the idea is to reward consistency and team work but there is a fair amount of luck involved and penalises those who will try to animate the race by taking some risks going for the win. Would be better if the team competition was based on 4 out of the 5 riders plus still allowing a lap out for mechanicals

Pross

I don't see the point of the team format and this year it's even worse. Luck has far too big an impact on the result.

awavey

they changed the format because last year the teams going for the team win Madison Genesis and Rapha Condor JLT, which is really the overall Tour Series prize they are aiming for, kept letting the likes of Jon Mould just solo break off and not bother chasing him down as NFTO werent challenging in the Team competition, and they just organised themselves for the highest 3 riders of the team placed finish behind him, so they kind of were just marking each other out which wasnt that exciting.

so the changes were supposed to stop that and force the teams to chase down individual break rider and make the team win,well more of combined team effort. if you have got 5 riders why dont they all count towards the team result, so its intention was the teams were also supposed to keep an eye on all their riders and keep them all involved, which was supposed to make the racing more hectic and aggressive.

and yeah not sure its quite worked as intended, but ONE Pro seem to be using tactics the other teams havent caught up with yet, & the no free lap for mechanical thing does make things far more harsh on riders with mechanicals, but I still dont understand quite how a bike breaks down like that given its attended to by bike mechanics constantly and stripped and rebuilt after every ride, it does smack slightly of finger trouble if your bike disintegrates on the first lap, potentially you could treat it like the keiran every one has a free mechanical until the racing starts properly, maybe the first sprint lap or the teams could play a set number of mechanical joker cards and get a free lap re-entry but once they are gone, they are stuffed.

I dont know you dont want to it too complex to follow as unless your at the start/finish you never have any idea whats happening anyway.


I hope the size of the fields in this years Matrix Fitness GP series will encourage them to match up to all the Tour Series rounds in the future, as I still cant work out why they dont do that, and the quality of the racing is variable, because you just cant commit riders in a team or train in the same way, if you are only doing half the rounds

Omar Little

awavey wrote:

and yeah not sure its quite worked as intended, but ONE Pro seem to be using tactics the other teams havent caught up with yet, & the no free lap for mechanical thing does make things far more harsh on riders with mechanicals, but I still dont understand quite how a bike breaks down like that given its attended to by bike mechanics constantly and stripped and rebuilt after every ride, it does smack slightly of finger trouble if your bike disintegrates on the first lap, potentially you could treat it like the keiran every one has a free mechanical until the racing starts properly, maybe the first sprint lap or the teams could play a set number of mechanical joker cards and get a free lap re-entry but once they are gone, they are stuffed.

Most mechanical issues that arise in crits are not due to poor set up but instead due to punctures, crashes or bumps. Normally a rider will get a free lap until the final 5 laps (or however many it is after the time is up) that system works well. If a rider makes it to that stage and then cant complete due to a mechanical then they are still considered to have finished the race, albeit it so many laps down on the winner.

mroli

Good Twitter spat going on at the moment where Brian smith criticised one pro for not letting Madison back in when they punctured...Matt prior, steve Benton and various other criticising him.....

I've never heard of people slowing in Crits that's the big issue with this format....

RonB

mroli wrote:

Good Twitter spat going on at the moment where Brian smith criticised one pro for not letting Madison back in when they punctured...Matt prior, steve Benton and various other criticising him.....

I've never heard of people slowing in Crits that's the big issue with this format....

It was just the one rider with a problem and not the whole team. It was always a risk to have the others from the team drop back to try to help out and I'm sure Roger Hammond knew that at the time. Makes for an interesting concusion to the series though.

DeVlaeminck

Never really understood why they went with the team format - I know there is a team element to bike racing but primarily it has always been about an individual winner - I mean who really cares about the team classification at the Tour or the Giro ?

As far as laps out goes - I'd be happy with doing without them - they are open to abuse and again for spectators it doesn't really make sense that someone can crash out and then suddenly be back in the race - punctures or other mechanicals in a crit should be so rare that it shouldn't really be an issue - I've yet to puncture this year riding on worse roads than your average crit.

inseine

It was bonkers last night at Canary Wharf. One Prp lapped most of the field, including all 5 of the Madison Genesis team (after they'd slowed to help one of their guys who'd crashed) but they only won by 1 point!
Good race though.

thegibdog

I don't really see why they bother with the team format at all. I don't think it adds anything to the racing, to be honest I don't really pay any attention to the team results/standings.

r0bh

Likewise I enjoy watching the Tour Series races on TV but don't understand why they are so fixated on it being a team event, which I'd wager 99% of casual spectators don't understand at all. They should at least introduce bonus points for (say) the top 3 individuals in each round.

gsk82

i think its as simple as it makes the series a little different

lyn1

ManOfKent wrote:

I'd be interested to know the thinking behind the changes to the team ranking and particularly why they no longer allow a lap out for a crash/mechanical. .

This was introduced after round 2 at Durham in 2012. There was a spat between Herety and Elliott on camera. Herety accused Elliott of putting his riders back into groups that were ahead of those they came out of. Elliott argued that the field split so badly it was impossible to work out who was where without F1 telemetry. There was also evidence of guys who had been dropped deliberately riding into crashes and then claiming a lap out. Some riders were alleged to have had too many laps out. Endura took the win with 2,3, and 5, although there were complaints about many of the finishing positions for most teams on the night. Consequently, the next round at Oxford saw the introduction of the no laps out rule.

dabber

It's clearly my ignorance but I've never understood the rationale of allowing taking laps out.

Am I right in thinking that, for what ever reason (mechanical/crash etc?) a rider can miss a lap but get back in and race again (after effectively had a rest) against others who have had no lap out/rest?
Is that logical or am I missing the way this works?

Pross

Dabber wrote:

It's clearly my ignorance but I've never understood the rationale of allowing taking laps out.

Am I right in thinking that, for what ever reason (mechanical/crash etc?) a rider can miss a lap but get back in and race again (after effectively had a rest) against others who have had no lap out/rest?
Is that logical or am I missing the way this works?

It's simply because the length of lap makes it impossible to get a problem sorted out and allow the rider to chase back on. They have to get to the pit with a mechanical and / or having had a crash, get the work done and rejoin so it's not exactly a rest.

CYCLESPORT1

Not as good as an old fashion one hour crit !

hammerite

Pross wrote:

Dabber wrote:

It's clearly my ignorance but I've never understood the rationale of allowing taking laps out.

Am I right in thinking that, for what ever reason (mechanical/crash etc?) a rider can miss a lap but get back in and race again (after effectively had a rest) against others who have had no lap out/rest?
Is that logical or am I missing the way this works?

It's simply because the length of lap makes it impossible to get a problem sorted out and allow the rider to chase back on. They have to get to the pit with a mechanical and / or having had a crash, get the work done and rejoin so it's not exactly a rest.

And it's such a short race that someone who is swinging the lead feigning a mechanical because they're hanging off the back or just knackered is never going to get enough of a rest for it to make a big difference. If they were struggling before the rest, chances are they'll struggle again after the rest.

dabber

hammerite wrote:

Pross wrote:

Dabber wrote:

It's clearly my ignorance but I've never understood the rationale of allowing taking laps out.

Am I right in thinking that, for what ever reason (mechanical/crash etc?) a rider can miss a lap but get back in and race again (after effectively had a rest) against others who have had no lap out/rest?
Is that logical or am I missing the way this works?

It's simply because the length of lap makes it impossible to get a problem sorted out and allow the rider to chase back on. They have to get to the pit with a mechanical and / or having had a crash, get the work done and rejoin so it's not exactly a rest.

And it's such a short race that someone who is swinging the lead feigning a mechanical because they're hanging off the back or just knackered is never going to get enough of a rest for it to make a big difference. If they were struggling before the rest, chances are they'll struggle again after the rest.

OK, thanks for the explanations. I guess I sort of understand the rationale. TBH, it still seems a bit strange to me but I see where they are coming from.

takethehighroad

inseine wrote:

It was bonkers last night at Canary Wharf. One Prp lapped most of the field, including all 5 of the Madison Genesis team (after they'd slowed to help one of their guys who'd crashed) but they only won by 1 point!
Good race though.

Served them right by trying to profit from another rider's misfortune.

They drilled it so hard to drop MGT, that they dropped at least one or two from every other team, meaning Madison picked them up and beat them, this earning second place overall.

Did highlight how badly thought out the 5 riders counting rule is though

jimmythecuckoo

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19618876#p19618876]thegibdog[/url] wrote:

I don't really see why they bother with the team format at all. I don't think it adds anything to the racing, to be honest I don't really pay any attention to the team results/standings.

Me to. I enjoy watching it and look forward to seeing who is going to get the overall win, but the overall format leaves me cold to be honest.

ozzzyosborn206

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19618700#p19618700]mroli[/url] wrote:

Good Twitter spat going on at the moment where Brian smith criticised one pro for not letting Madison back in when they punctured...Matt prior, steve Benton and various other criticising him.....

I've never heard of people slowing in Crits that's the big issue with this format....

its one thing easing up and another thing putting 5 guys on the front and riding full gas

imatfaal

I am not complaining (because I hated the original ruling) but why when Nicki Juniper accepted a wheel from a rider from a different team was no sanction given and no one mentioned the Richie Porte incident - surely still under the same rules?

Is the Tour Series not under the same general UCI rules? To be honest I am still trying to understand what is going on in the Tour Series and it is the last round!

cyclingsheep

What happened with Yanto Barker's crash in Bath? I keep looking at the footage and it looks more and more like an equipment failure. He takes his right hand off the bar before he even starts going down a bit like that rider in one of the classics a few years ago whose headset gave way and he stayed upright for a while but eventually hit the deck.

takethehighroad

George Hincapie that was Paris Roubaix 06

As for your actual question, I don't know, I've not watched it yet, sorry.

thegibdog

Yanto Barker's crash did look very strange - I can't find an explanation online of what happened, maybe they don't want to give Cervélo any bad publicity. That crash deciding the series highlights how flawed the team format is.

Having said that Juniper's puncture could easily have cost her the women's series title, good to see that the commissaires took a sensible view on things.