IMO Contador is the greatest cyclist of his generation
DonDaddyD
Posts: 12,689
Yep, as the title says. IMO, Alberto Contador is the greatest profession cyclist of his generation. If we remove the dodgy beef, which wasn't enough to enhance his performance, and any speculation in addition to this is just that - then I find it hard to argue with my assertion.
With the exception of 2013 and the 2 years where he was retrospectively banned, he has won a Grand Tour since 2007, that's an 9 year dominance at the summit of professional cycling. Of the 2010 and 11 he won, but was stripped, of the Tour de France and Giro. But what I like about Contador is that despite being stripped of those titles it hasn't reduced his hunger for winning.
Discuss and who is your personal favorite rider of this generation and why?
With the exception of 2013 and the 2 years where he was retrospectively banned, he has won a Grand Tour since 2007, that's an 9 year dominance at the summit of professional cycling. Of the 2010 and 11 he won, but was stripped, of the Tour de France and Giro. But what I like about Contador is that despite being stripped of those titles it hasn't reduced his hunger for winning.
Discuss and who is your personal favorite rider of this generation and why?
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A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
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Title isn't wrong.
Boonen's my favourite rider & the crush is fairly well documented on here...
Just like how he rides the classics (which are my favourite races), especially in light of the (fairly powerful) arsenal of talent at his disposal.0 -
I dont think you can Argue with that.
I loved Jonny Hoogerland before his altercation with a car and the barbed wire, just cos he attacked. Thomas De Gendt is in the same mould.
Adam Hansen is my hero though, but I am with Rick. Its the classics where it is at."If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got."
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This reminds me of the thread in which you said you would never accept that Armstrong had doped...Pannier, 120rpm.0
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WRONG :P
My vote goes to Vos!!
Shouldn't this be over on Pro Race?
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+1 - I can't think of anyone who's been that dominant, across such a wide range of cycling disciplines, since a very long time ago.FoldingJoe wrote:My vote goes to Vos!!
Contador's a very entertaining racer, but he's never been the same since he gave up the Spanish steaks.
From the next generation, Stybar's a pretty useful rider...Pannier, 120rpm.0 -
TGOTB wrote:
+1 - I can't think of anyone who's been that dominant, across such a wide range of cycling disciplines, since a very long time ago.FoldingJoe wrote:My vote goes to Vos!!
I'd say that's partly reflection of the relative competition that exists now in women's cycling (and men's cycling 40 years ago, where one rider could dominate everywhere) - i.e. low.
Same with track cycling.0 -
+1Rick Chasey wrote:TGOTB wrote:
+1 - I can't think of anyone who's been that dominant, across such a wide range of cycling disciplines, since a very long time ago.FoldingJoe wrote:My vote goes to Vos!!
I'd say that's partly reflection of the relative competition that exists now in women's cycling (and men's cycling 40 years ago, where one rider could dominate everywhere) - i.e. low.
Same with track cycling.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
TGOTB wrote:This reminds me of the thread in which you said you would never accept that Armstrong had doped...
I didnt want to mention it, but he was clearly the greatest rider of that generation.
(clearly AC is the greatest GT rider, but it is all very subjective, he may have won more GTs, but is his Palmares better than Wiggins? Or Vos? No.)"If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got."
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Rick Chasey wrote:TGOTB wrote:
+1 - I can't think of anyone who's been that dominant, across such a wide range of cycling disciplines, since a very long time ago.FoldingJoe wrote:My vote goes to Vos!!
I'd say that's partly reflection of the relative competition that exists now in women's cycling (and men's cycling 40 years ago, where one rider could dominate everywhere) - i.e. low.
Same with track cycling.
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I agree. Marianne Vos is the greatest cyclist of his generation.FoldingJoe wrote:WRONG :P My vote goes to Vos!!Dolan Titanium ADX 2016
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Was this posted by a twitterbot? Maybe you should leave Caitlyn out of this.rower63 wrote:
I agree. Marianne Vos is the greatest cyclist of his generation.FoldingJoe wrote:WRONG :P My vote goes to Vos!!0 -
TGOTB wrote:This reminds me of the thread in which you said you would never accept that Armstrong had doped...
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Does that mean riders like Coppi and Merckx weren't actually that good? :?Rick Chasey wrote:I'd say that's partly reflection of the relative competition that exists now in women's cycling (and men's cycling 40 years ago, where one rider could dominate everywhere) - i.e. low.Pannier, 120rpm.0 -
TGOTB wrote:
Does that mean riders like Coppi and Merckx weren't actually that good? :?Rick Chasey wrote:I'd say that's partly reflection of the relative competition that exists now in women's cycling (and men's cycling 40 years ago, where one rider could dominate everywhere) - i.e. low.
I doubt Merckx would have won as much in today's peloton.
Do you?0 -
I like contador, and he is undoubtedly a massive grand tour talent, it will be interesting to see how it he goes against hopefully a fit and full field in the Giro.
My gut feel is that Froome is likely a better cyclist and but we've just not been able to see much of that head to head due to various issues.Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com0 -
Hmm.Rick Chasey wrote:TGOTB wrote:
Does that mean riders like Coppi and Merckx weren't actually that good? :?Rick Chasey wrote:I'd say that's partly reflection of the relative competition that exists now in women's cycling (and men's cycling 40 years ago, where one rider could dominate everywhere) - i.e. low.
I doubt Merckx would have won as much in today's peloton.
Do you?
A large part of that question is about the amount that the sport itself has changed. For one, the breakaways tend to be less successful, with gps timechecks and race radio it's a lot more common for the peloton to be organised and ride down breakaways. Stages and races tend to be shorter, so there is less time for the big engines to drain their rivals. Riders are also much more specialized now - there's no question of one of the great sprinters of the current era going after GC in the same way that Sean Kelly did.
Merckx knew that he could sustain greater power output than his rivals across a long period of time. He wasn't a truly great mountain climber, but was able to manage his losses. Ergo, his tactic largely was to attack early, escape and ultimately drop any rivals that managed to hold his wheel. We occasionally see this sort of thing from Tony Martin but on the whole the organisation of the peloton means its a somewhat doomed approach.
Conversely however, there's no doubt in my mind that Merckx career was shortened by the sheer ferocity of his approach - he burned himself out, and after a few years of brilliance he was a spent force. With modern approaches he could quite easily have ridden another five years at the top, I'm sure of that.
Finally I think we have to recognise that the entire sport is distorted by the effects of drugs on the peloton. The show that Astana put on at the Giro in the wake of nearly being expelled by the UCI should be ringing alarm bells for even the most naive observer. Suppose that Merckx's natural gifts were thicker blood, higher testosterone, a natural tendency to carry lower % bodyfat - these are all things that can be doped for, and so long as you don't go beyond 'suspicious' bio passport values you can do it without any real fear of being caught.
Still, if anyone doubts what a superlative athlete Merckx was, one only needs to consider his hour record, beaten by ten mere yards by Chris Boardman, the greatest hour man of his generation and a man who had dedicated himself to the task and brought another thirty years of sports science to bear on the challenge.
Merckx took the frankly suicidal approach of attacking the 10km and 20km records en route to the hour, in thin air at altitude that made recovering the oxygen after this effort an uphill battle - he suffered terribly, and yet still came out with a record almost unbeatable. Had he approached the hour with a more sane schedule I'm not sure anyone would have ever even tried to beat it - he clearly had a 50km hour in him, which with the equipment of the time is mind blowing.
I don't think there's been any rider since who would fancy himself against the Cannibal in his prime.0 -
Good post ^^
As numbers of people in the sport increase the harder it is for total domination to take place, makes people like Lionel Messi even more remarkable, to be the best so obviously against nearly every male on the planet (most of us play football at one point and see if we're any good) really does show true talent that is once in a generation stuff. The best cyclist out there probably hasn't even ridden a bike due to participation numbers in competitive cycling.
Depending on what Wiggins does this weekend, he would have to be in with a shout of being one of the most versatile riders of this generation, not the best, but someone who can win that spectrum of events is a hell of an athlete!Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com0 -
TimothyW wrote:
Hmm.Rick Chasey wrote:TGOTB wrote:
Does that mean riders like Coppi and Merckx weren't actually that good? :?Rick Chasey wrote:I'd say that's partly reflection of the relative competition that exists now in women's cycling (and men's cycling 40 years ago, where one rider could dominate everywhere) - i.e. low.
I doubt Merckx would have won as much in today's peloton.
Do you?
A large part of that question is about the amount that the sport itself has changed. For one, the breakaways tend to be less successful, with gps timechecks and race radio it's a lot more common for the peloton to be organised and ride down breakaways. Stages and races tend to be shorter, so there is less time for the big engines to drain their rivals. Riders are also much more specialized now - there's no question of one of the great sprinters of the current era going after GC in the same way that Sean Kelly did.
Merckx knew that he could sustain greater power output than his rivals across a long period of time. He wasn't a truly great mountain climber, but was able to manage his losses. Ergo, his tactic largely was to attack early, escape and ultimately drop any rivals that managed to hold his wheel. We occasionally see this sort of thing from Tony Martin but on the whole the organisation of the peloton means its a somewhat doomed approach.
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A lot of that is to do with a narrower gap between the best in the peloton and the worst.
I'm not disputing Merckx was great & all that, but I am convinced he would not have won anywhere near as much if he was riding today.
He won just stupid amounts.
I mean look. One 'average' season in his peak 5 years. 1971. Not his finest (1969), not his worst (take your pick)
Tour de France
Overall classification
Points classification
+4 stages
World championship
Milan – San Remo
Liège–Bastogne–Liège
Giro di Lombardia
Rund um den Henninger Turm
Omloop "Het Volk"Paris–NiceCritérium
du Dauphiné Libéré
Grand Prix du Midi Libre
Tour of Belgium
Giro di Sardegna
Super Prestige Pernod International
No way could that be done in today's peloton, even if you were taking stupid amounts of drugs.0 -
I agree with DDD. Contador can do everything well, and some things very well indeed. His best quality, if you can call it that, is his stickability. He is an extremely tough competitor. He is savvy because he takes his chances where he can, he can read a race well and knows when to limit his losses - most importantly he does not give in. If Bertie turns up for a tour there is a good chance he is there to win it.
That's what makes him great.Ecrasez l’infame0 -
I couldn't disagree more, he's a one-trick pony; the only thing he's ever excelled in is stage races. He's never won anything else significant. No classics, no track, no off-road, no Olympics, no World Championships.BelgianBeerGeek wrote:Contador can do everything well, and some things very well indeed.
Compare with Vos:
Two Olympic gold medals on track and road
3 x Road Race World Championships
2 x Track World Championships
7 x Cyclocross World Championships
3 x Grand Tours
Multiple classics
The one thing Contador is definitely not, is an all-rounder.Pannier, 120rpm.0 -
Yeah greatest GT rider without a shadow of doubt.
Greatest cyclist of that generation? Nah, does no where near enough.As much as I hate it Valverde is in my opinion the greatest road racer of that generation.It's not so much about winning, I just hate losing.0 -
LeePaton wrote:Yeah greatest GT rider without a shadow of doubt.
Greatest cyclist of that generation? Nah, does no where near enough.As much as I hate it Valverde is in my opinion the greatest road racer of that generation.
AKA piti...."If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got."
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Rick Chasey wrote:A lot of that is to do with a narrower gap between the best in the peloton and the worst.
I'm not disputing Merckx was great & all that, but I am convinced he would not have won anywhere near as much if he was riding today.
He won just stupid amounts.
I mean look. One 'average' season in his peak 5 years. 1971. Not his finest (1969), not his worst (take your pick)
Tour de France
Overall classification
Points classification
+4 stages
World championship
Milan – San Remo
Liège–Bastogne–Liège
Giro di Lombardia
Rund um den Henninger Turm
Omloop "Het Volk"Paris–NiceCritérium
du Dauphiné Libéré
Grand Prix du Midi Libre
Tour of Belgium
Giro di Sardegna
Super Prestige Pernod International
No way could that be done in today's peloton, even if you were taking stupid amounts of drugs.
Perhaps the point is that a top rider today wouldn't even try. Their DS wouldn't send them to all those races, particularly if at every one of those races the rider in question proceeded to slog their guts out to win them - they want their best riders able to perform at the big events, not below their best from winning a dozen lesser events. The sad fact is there aren't any 'big' races in the women's calendar (except arguably the Olympics) so Vos has free rein to compete wherever she wants, not to mention that the lesser money in the womens sport means that every winners cheque counts.
Merckx's desire to win was insatiable - I reread a bit of 'Half-man half-bike' to remind myself of the details of his hour record, and that 1972 season, probably the greatest season by any cyclist ever with 50 wins and the aforementioned hour record, Merckx ended it by throwing his bike down in disgust after he was outsprinted for a 51st victory at Putte-Kapellen.
What we can't know is if Merckx's talent had been properly nurtured, directed only at the big events, if modern medicine/techniques spared his knees, would he then have had another 5 years at the top, so maintaining his overall count? Would he have been faced with doped up monsters like Lance who nullified his natural gifts and left him unable to compete? It's pretty futile to speculate.
The thing that Lance recognised was that the vast majority of the planet hasn't heard of any bike race except the Tour de France, so if you win the tour, and what's more win it 7 times in a row, more than anyone else has achieved, then in the eyes of those people you will be the greatest cyclist ever, and it doesn't matter a damn if your results the rest of the season are lousy or if you don't even bother to turn up to most of the other events. If he'd stayed retired in the first place, he'd probably still have millions of fans who'd tell you that he was the best rider ever.
Coming back to Contador briefly, well, if he manages the Giro-Tour double then he'll have certainly staked his claim but I think he'll find the Tour a much stiffer challenge. It also doesn't add much weight to your claim as a truly great cyclist if you've twice won the Giro GC without taking a stage - a canny rider, certainly, but great? Perhaps not. Merckx he ain't 0 -
Drug cheat. Nothing more worth saying about him. Rules him out as a great in any era imo.You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.0 -
Rules out almost everyone.Daz555 wrote:Drug cheat. Nothing more worth saying about him. Rules him out as a great in any era imo.
Who is left?The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Cav deserves more respect than the tarnished Contador for his road career alone as do Cancelara and Boonen. Evans and Wiggo are the two best all rounders of their generation I'd argue.PBlakeney wrote:
Rules out almost everyone.Daz555 wrote:Drug cheat. Nothing more worth saying about him. Rules him out as a great in any era imo.
Who is left?
Who is the best of this generation? Don't know but it is not the cheating one trick pony Contador.You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.0 -
Agreed, does being a cheat count for nothing? Fair enough there has always been cheating and always will be, but Contador has cheated through an era where the sport has been trying to clean itself up. Maybe I'm wrong, but the likes of Wiggins, Evans, the French guys seem to be trying to do it the right way and Contador, Valverde et al just seem to be dragging the sport back to the bad old days. He is thoroughly unrepentant and doesn't even accept that he has done wrong, so why anyone would think he might ever change his ways is beyond me. Great results, entertaining to watch, but a cheat sadly.0
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It is a tricky one, right enough.Daz555 wrote:
Cav deserves more respect than the tarnished Contador for his road career alone as do Cancelara and Boonen. Evans and Wiggo are the two best all rounders of their generation I'd argue.PBlakeney wrote:
Rules out almost everyone.Daz555 wrote:Drug cheat. Nothing more worth saying about him. Rules him out as a great in any era imo.
Who is left?
Who is the best if this generation? Don't know but it is not the cheating one trick pony Contador.
Cav has more than his fair share of detractors.
Wiggo is boring from a spectator point of view.
Canceller and Boonen are good value but I prefer GTs to Classics.
I don't know who the best (clean) rider is but my preference goes to those who attack. Jens for example, but they rarely win majors.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I will agree with the OP if he alters the thread title to read 'greatest Grand Tour rider'
I nominate Cadel Evans
Wiggins relies too much on the Olympic/track stuff to pad out a mediocre (in this rarefied company) road palmares“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
If only I could rely on my four gold, one silver and two bronze Olympic medals when talking myself up down at the Rose & CrownTailWindHome wrote:Wiggins relies too much on the Olympic/track stuff
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