Tubular Rim
rozzer32
Posts: 3,919
So after much debating and thought I have decided to go down the tubular route for my mud tyres. I'm going for rhinos and have decided to stick with Novatec hubs as that's what I run on my other pair of CX wheels and I've no complaints so far.
Now I know I could go for something like a Major Tom but I quite fancy some bling and a bit of carbon. Has anyone got any recommendations for a 38mm carbon tub rim? I've not got the money for enve and I don't want to spend loads and loads on rims that will only be used a handful of times a year. I'd looked at the generic ebay carbon rims and wondered if these would be OK for cross? As I run discs they won't have to deal with braking and obviously they'll have a big knobbly tyre to cushion impacts.
Anyone any thoughts?
Now I know I could go for something like a Major Tom but I quite fancy some bling and a bit of carbon. Has anyone got any recommendations for a 38mm carbon tub rim? I've not got the money for enve and I don't want to spend loads and loads on rims that will only be used a handful of times a year. I'd looked at the generic ebay carbon rims and wondered if these would be OK for cross? As I run discs they won't have to deal with braking and obviously they'll have a big knobbly tyre to cushion impacts.
Anyone any thoughts?
***** Pro Tour Pundit Champion 2020, 2018, 2017 & 2011 *****
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Light bicycle wheel, farsports and Gigantex would be my advice, although the latter might not do 28/32 holes which you need for those hubsleft the forum March 20230
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Yea I would need 28 hole. Had looked on ebay but I drop an email to LB and farsport. I notice that they do 25mm and 23mm wide. My current CX wheels are 23mm wide. Do you think it would be better to go to 25 or stick at 23?***** Pro Tour Pundit Champion 2020, 2018, 2017 & 2011 *****0
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rozzer32 wrote:Yea I would need 28 hole. Had looked on ebay but I drop an email to LB and farsport. I notice that they do 25mm and 23mm wide. My current CX wheels are 23mm wide. Do you think it would be better to go to 25 or stick at 23?
I think 23 is enough to glue a 32 mm tub... not sure 25 will give you more with tubs, just increasing the chances of hitting the sideleft the forum March 20230 -
Farsports tubular rims are pretty good; I built up two sets of their 50mm rims on Novatec hubs, and am happy enough that I'll be building another when the budget permits. Came out slightly under 1500g a pair, if I recall correctly. They've been plenty robust enough for anything I've managed to do to them on the race course.
Definitely go for the 25mm rim if you can. 23mm is fine, but the 25mm will be slightly nicer at very low pressure, and also a bit easier to glue.
When it comes to gluing, I can recommend the (no tape) method described on the Crossjunkie blog. The only people I know who've rolled tubs have used tape as part of the gluing process.Pannier, 120rpm.0 -
agree, tape is crapleft the forum March 20230
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Just to clarify, there are actually three different methods of attaching tubular tyres to rims:
1. Tape only - this is fine for road tyres at 120psi; on a CX tyre at 20psi you'll be lucky to get to the start line in one piece.
2. Glue and tape (the so called Belgian method) - works for some, but there seems to be more scope for getting it wrong. The one advantage is that it's quicker, so might be necessary if you need to glue a brand new tub and race it tomorrow.
3. Glue only (the Crossjunkie method) - you need multiple layers of glue which take time to harden, so it takes several days from start to finish. Seems to be the most reliable though, I've never seen anyone roll a tub which had been attached using this method...Pannier, 120rpm.0 -
I find that Vittoria glue dries in 20 minutes...
My bad experience with tape came in the form of a front valve stem bent at 45 degree at the bottom of a rather steep descent... road tyre at ca. 100 PSI... decided it wasn't worth risking any furtherleft the forum March 20230 -
Eek!ugo.santalucia wrote:I find that Vittoria glue dries in 20 minutes...
My bad experience with tape came in the form of a front valve stem bent at 45 degree at the bottom of a rather steep descent... road tyre at ca. 100 PSI... decided it wasn't worth risking any further
I'd never thought of that; the shape of the rim stops the tyre rolling off (at road pressure) but you're totally reliant on the glue/tape to stop the tyre rotating...Pannier, 120rpm.0 -
This is somewhat OT but while Mastik One feels touch dry after 20 minutes, it actually takes more like 24 hours to properly set. Hence the convoluted gluing processes that people describe. Multiple fully cured layers are the only path to happiness.
Unlike TGOTB, the only people I have seen roll tubs have been in categories 1 and 3. The Belgian method done correctly (with multiple properly cured layers and using the Veloflex tape) is extremely durable. Needless to say that is what I use
@OP - whatever method you use, it is part of the magic and mystery that you develop your own style which in time you will come to believe is much superior to everyone's else's. If you don't, you might as well go tubeless!
Re Chinese rims - there's a lot of variability in quality. Far Sports are pretty good though. I have found the 23mm rim walls more prone to wear due to braking but that won't be an issue for you with disc brakes.0 -
You will also come to believe that your chosen brand of tub cement is the only one that actually works.VamP wrote:@OP - whatever method you use, it is part of the magic and mystery that you develop your own style which in time you will come to believe is much superior to everyone's else's.
Don't buy your tub cement in tubes, they're too small. From memory, I think a 250g tin is enough for around 5 wheels.Pannier, 120rpm.0 -
Cheers guys you must have been reading my mind. I've been doing a bit of reading about gluing tubs for cross and was going to ask what method people use. Think I'll just go with the normal glue method. There's plenty of time until the season starts so no excuses for not having enough time to build up the glue layers. I've also read that the glue and tape method makes life hard work when you come round to removing and re-gluing the tyre.
Actually checked my current CX wheels and they are 25mm wide not 23mm. So think I'll go for the 25mm wide. I'm guessing with tubs that rim width doesn't affect tyre width as it does on a clincher as you're effectively gluing the tyre on top of the rim.***** Pro Tour Pundit Champion 2020, 2018, 2017 & 2011 *****0 -
TGOTB wrote:I think a 250g tin is enough for around 5 wheels.
:shock: :shock: :shock:
it's glue not custard...
left the forum March 20230 -
I've struggled to remove tyres with the glue-only method too; VamP may have some suggestions, but I suspect it's the price you pay for having it well-attached in the first place.rozzer32 wrote:I've also read that the glue and tape method makes life hard work when you come round to removing and re-gluing the tyre.
One tip I just thought of - *clean* clincher rims work very nearly as well as tub rims for stretching the tyres; since I discovered this I've started holding onto my old worn-out clincher rims for exactly this purpose.
You're right - rim width has a negligible impact on the overall tyre width.rozzer32 wrote:Actually checked my current CX wheels and they are 25mm wide not 23mm. So think I'll go for the 25mm wide. I'm guessing with tubs that rim width doesn't affect tyre width as it does on a clincher as you're effectively gluing the tyre on top of the rim.
I'm not being funny, but how many times have you actually glued a cyclocross tyre onto a rim? It needs a lot more glue than a road tyre. The Belgian method might require a bit less...ugo.santalucia wrote:TGOTB wrote:I think a 250g tin is enough for around 5 wheels.
:shock: :shock: :shock:
it's glue not custard...Pannier, 120rpm.0 -
Two observations for OP:
1. The tub being hard to remove is a good thing, that's what you want. Takes me about an hour to unpeel a PROPERLY glued tub. Less if it's dead and I am binning it as I can be more brutal with it.
2. Deciding on whether to use tape as part of the process is also partly a function of the conformity of rim and tub shapes. So don't decide which method you will use until you have both the rim and the tyre together. If the tyre only touches the rim near the edges, you MUST use some tape to build up the middle of the rim to bring it into contact with the tyre. Otherwise your glue job will be fatally flawed.
As to amount of glue needed - yes deffo a lot more than you need for road tubs. I don't think there is much difference between glue only and Belgian in this regard.0 -
Belgian method for me - rolled tubs using tape and glue-only. Most older style road rims are too narrow /deep to get a decent bond otherwiseMake mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..0
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Cheers for all the info guys. Going to see how the tyre sits on the rim when they arrive and then take it from there.
On a separate note do you guys age your tubs? Read a few things of people saying it's good to leave them for a few months. Is it just a myth?***** Pro Tour Pundit Champion 2020, 2018, 2017 & 2011 *****0 -
Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..0
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I don't normally get the opportunity! That said, wrestling tubs onto wheels without getting glue everywhere isn't normally one of the highlights of my season, and ageing them on a spare set of rims can only make it easier.On a separate note do you guys age your tubs? Read a few things of people saying it's good to leave them for a few months. Is it just a myth?Pannier, 120rpm.0 -
I don't normally get the opportunity! That said, wrestling tubs onto wheels without getting glue everywhere isn't normally one of the highlights of my season, and ageing them on a spare set of rims can only make it easier.On a separate note do you guys age your tubs? Read a few things of people saying it's good to leave them for a few months. Is it just a myth?
That's stretching TGOTB
Only need to stretch about a day at most. The maturing/againg thing that OP was referring to is some old school tub arcana. Definitely not needed with modern tubs, perhaps it never was... 0 -
Ageing might have a role in road tubs, where the rubber can modify its hardness over time and marginally change grip and rolling resistance.
In CX, where grip and RR are defined by pressure and knobbles shape/pattern, I don't think ageing will make any difference whatsoeverleft the forum March 20230 -
Cheers guys. Thought as much but wasn't sure.
Just one last question then I'll stop bothering you I promise. Do you guys add any sealant to your tubs? If so do you do it when you first glue them or do you want until you get a puncture then try and seal it up? Or do you not bother and just get it repaired when you puncture?***** Pro Tour Pundit Champion 2020, 2018, 2017 & 2011 *****0 -
Cheers guys. Thought as much but wasn't sure.
Just one last question then I'll stop bothering you I promise. Do you guys add any sealant to your tubs? If so do you do it when you first glue them or do you want until you get a puncture then try and seal it up? Or do you not bother and just get it repaired when you puncture?
Most tubs have latex inners, which deflate over time. If you put sealant in them, the latex sticks to itself and the tub is ruined. So no sealant for those. Punctures should be repaired the hard way (unstitch, fix inner with patch, and sew up again).
TUFO tubs, which have a special construction with a vulcanized butyl inner, on the other hand are tailor made for pre-loading with sealant and treated thusly are immensely robust. They fix well with sealant as well. The TUFO Extreme sealant has worked well for me.0 -
Most tubs have latex inners, which deflate over time. If you put sealant in them, the latex sticks to itself and the tub is ruined. So no sealant for those. Punctures should be repaired the hard way (unstitch, fix inner with patch, and sew up again).
Schwalbe one tubs at least the 28's I run definitely don't have latex inners.0 -
Well I'll be running dugast. Think I'll just get it repaired if I flat.***** Pro Tour Pundit Champion 2020, 2018, 2017 & 2011 *****0
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Most tubs have latex inners, which deflate over time. If you put sealant in them, the latex sticks to itself and the tub is ruined. So no sealant for those. Punctures should be repaired the hard way (unstitch, fix inner with patch, and sew up again).
Schwalbe one tubs at least the 28's I run definitely don't have latex inners.
And you race cross on those?
Continental tubs also use butyl inners, but as they don't make any useful cross tubs it's irrelevant here.
One additional comment on the use of sealant to fix punctures. It is only slightly harder to replace the latex inner than it is to fix it, so if you are short of time and tubs, you can attempt the sealant fix to see if it will get you on the starting line. Then just replace the whole inner when time allows.0 -
Weapon of choice for the 3 Peaks, from what I hear (though not that relevant to the real World, as it seems to be more or less impossible to get an entry...)TUFO tubs, which have a special construction with a vulcanized butyl inner, on the other hand are tailor made for pre-loading with sealant and treated thusly are immensely robust. They fix well with sealant as well. The TUFO Extreme sealant has worked well for me.Pannier, 120rpm.0 -
Weapon of choice for the 3 Peaks, from what I hear (though not that relevant to the real World, as it seems to be more or less impossible to get an entry...)TUFO tubs, which have a special construction with a vulcanized butyl inner, on the other hand are tailor made for pre-loading with sealant and treated thusly are immensely robust. They fix well with sealant as well. The TUFO Extreme sealant has worked well for me.
I didn't get in this year (again) either. Just as well really, as I seem headed for some knee surgery in the autumn
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Oh bummer! I was looking forward to pretending I had a chance of beating you :-(
Weapon of choice for the 3 Peaks, from what I hear (though not that relevant to the real World, as it seems to be more or less impossible to get an entry...)TUFO tubs, which have a special construction with a vulcanized butyl inner, on the other hand are tailor made for pre-loading with sealant and treated thusly are immensely robust. They fix well with sealant as well. The TUFO Extreme sealant has worked well for me.
I didn't get in this year (again) either. Just as well really, as I seem headed for some knee surgery in the autumnPannier, 120rpm.0 -
Oh bummer! I was looking forward to pretending I had a chance of beating you :-(
Weapon of choice for the 3 Peaks, from what I hear (though not that relevant to the real World, as it seems to be more or less impossible to get an entry...)TUFO tubs, which have a special construction with a vulcanized butyl inner, on the other hand are tailor made for pre-loading with sealant and treated thusly are immensely robust. They fix well with sealant as well. The TUFO Extreme sealant has worked well for me.
I didn't get in this year (again) either. Just as well really, as I seem headed for some knee surgery in the autumn
Well, hopefully I will get out a few times, we'll see when the NHS slots me in.0
