BB90 + loctite 609
I'm coming to the end of my tether with a creaking bb90 on my '14 trek domane. I've replaced the bearing races and regreased a number of times - without success.
I dont need the green v2 bearings as the standard enduro version is tight enough to be reinserted using a press. However, Ive read that using loctite 609 can help remove any slight movement.
My question is, do I apply the loctite between the bearing and cup, or between the cup and CF frame?
Cheers.
I dont need the green v2 bearings as the standard enduro version is tight enough to be reinserted using a press. However, Ive read that using loctite 609 can help remove any slight movement.
My question is, do I apply the loctite between the bearing and cup, or between the cup and CF frame?
Cheers.
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Comments
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not familar with that frame/bb90, so this is generic...
is there a metal insert in the frame that the cups fit into? if the insert itself has come loose then greasing the cups/bearings/etc. won't help (either invoke warranty, or get a cf repairer to look at it)
does the spindle of the crankset fit directly into the bearing races? if so that is another point where noise could be generated if there's a tolerance problem - look for any sign of uneven wear at the contact points
609 and the lower strength 641 work by filling small gaps, up to 0.1 and 0.15mm respectively, so it really depends on where you think the gap(s) are
the 'strength' is shear strength, basically how hard it makes it to slide bits apart in future, you might be better off with 641 which also gives a longer time for setup (20 mins vs. 10 mins for 609)
if something slides in easily then chances are the fit is a bit loose, if there's no indication where the issue is then i'd start by trying cup-shell, then bearing-cup, then spindle-bearing
609/641 cure to full strength in 24 hours when in contact with 'active' surfaces, but aluminium and stainless steel are 'inactive', so for normal curing use 7649 primer firstmy bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
sungod wrote:not familar with that frame/bb90, so this is generic...
is there a metal insert in the frame that the cups fit into? if the insert itself has come loose then greasing the cups/bearings/etc. won't help (either invoke warranty, or get a cf repairer to look at it)
does the spindle of the crankset fit directly into the bearing races? if so that is another point where noise could be generated if there's a tolerance problem - look for any sign of uneven wear at the contact points
609 and the lower strength 641 work by filling small gaps, up to 0.1 and 0.15mm respectively, so it really depends on where you think the gap(s) are
the 'strength' is shear strength, basically how hard it makes it to slide bits apart in future, you might be better off with 641 which also gives a longer time for setup (20 mins vs. 10 mins for 609)
if something slides in easily then chances are the fit is a bit loose, if there's no indication where the issue is then i'd start by trying cup-shell, then bearing-cup, then spindle-bearing
609/641 cure to full strength in 24 hours when in contact with 'active' surfaces, but aluminium and stainless steel are 'inactive', so for normal curing use 7649 primer first
I had my Canyon frameset swapped over by my LBS a few months ago, it has a pressfit Shimano bottom bracket, so similar kind of thing. The owner of my LBS emailed Canyon about fitting the bottom bracket and they recommended fitting it with Loctite 609.0 -
Thanks for the replies.
The best images I can find are these:
This fits into the frame:
These fit into the sleeve:
No metal inserts.
So you're suggesting I try loctite between frame/sleeve first?0 -
what's the black thing that fits into the frame made of?
do the two parts just slide together?, i'd think that offers ample opportunity to creak if there's even a smidge of flex anywhere
on the spindle where it contacts the bearings, is there any sign of roughness or change in surface texture?
you mentioned that you greased things, does it creak immediately or does it go quiet but then return over time? if the creaking is immediate then i'd suspect it originates from something that isn't greasedmy bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
If the bearings are a good push-fit in the frame, i.e. they don't fall out when you tip the thing on it's side, then you should not use a bearing fit compound. Ideally you would smear some grease the outer race but it probably doesn't make much difference with a carbon shell.
Assuming the bearings are in good condition and the chainset is correctly fitted you should look elsewhere for the creak - it's not the BB.
If, however, the bearings rattle around in the frame ('cos you carried on riding after they seized
) then a bearing fit compound, like Loctite 609, applied to the outer race, after a thorough clean with meths, and allowed to 'set' might take out the play that will be noticed at the chainset. 0 -
The black sleeve is plastic, the ends fit together in the middle of the BB (one slides inside the other).
I dont recall any roughness where the bearings slot in - I replaced them with new enduro bearing races and the creaking appeared again after an hour or so of riding. All were greased when replaced.
Sounds much worse when climbing its proper doing my swede as I cant figure it out. Bloody thing sounds atrocious at times.
The bearings are snug and need tapping out with parktool BT90.3 to remove.0 -
It's black plastic, possibly nylon. It sits loosely in the frame between the bearings and appears to serve as a dust shield around the chainset axle. The back of the bearings might touch it but it does not in anyway retain or support the bearings. You can leave it out if you want. Not a candidate for creaking.sungod wrote:what's the black thing that fits into the frame made of?0 -
Dezza wrote:The black sleeve is plastic, the ends fit together in the middle of the BB (one slides inside the other).
I dont recall any roughness where the bearings slot in - I replaced them with new enduro bearing races and the creaking appeared again after an hour or so of riding. All were greased when replaced.
Sounds much worse when climbing its proper doing my swede as I cant figure it out. Bloody thing sounds atrocious at times.
The bearings are snug and need tapping out with parktool BT90.3 to remove.
ok, seems the plastic bit is unlikely to be involved
but either i misunderstand or you didn't answer this...
on the spindle where it contacts the bearings, is there any sign of roughness or change in surface texture?
the reason i ask is there's an effect that'll make a noise and in the process damage the spindle, no amount of grease/loctite on the bearing-shell interface will fix this, so you need to either confirm or eliminate it as being involved
the contact area may appear less shiny or be grainy for instance, example with both slight and more severe areas affected...
my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
Have you tried greasing the black plastic sleeve where it joins in the centre? Possibly the plastic itself is creaking rather than the bearings. Silicone grease works best on plastic, but any grease should work.0
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Thanks for the pic sungod, understand. I will need to check (unable to this weekend) but I don't recall any damage in the similar patterns shown. Will report back when I can.
Jermas - i will regrease all the contact points.0 -
ok, seems the plastic bit is unlikely to be involved
but either i misunderstand or you didn't answer this...
on the spindle where it contacts the bearings, is there any sign of roughness or change in surface texture?
the reason i ask is there's an effect that'll make a noise and in the process damage the spindle, no amount of grease/loctite on the bearing-shell interface will fix this, so you need to either confirm or eliminate it as being involved
the contact area may appear less shiny or be grainy for instance, example with both slight and more severe areas affected...
Ok, ive had a bit of time to look at this again.
I took to bits and re-greased all the contact points, including the black sleeve join. I checked the spindle and although the contact area was shinier, i couldnt feel any change in texture when running my nail over it.
I rode a sportive last weekend, the first 2-3 hours were great.... no significant noise when climbing out of the saddle. However, the creaking re-appeared and by the end it was creating a proper racket
Any ideas?0 -
If I read correctly, it creaks whether you're in the saddle or not. In which case, humour me - remove the rear wheel, grease the dropouts inside and out wherever the axle and skewer touch. Replace the wheel and test on your favourite climb.
I rode a sportive last weekend, the first 2-3 hours were great.... no significant noise when climbing out of the saddle. However, the creaking re-appeared and by the end it was creating a proper racket
Any ideas?0 -
If I read correctly, it creaks whether you're in the saddle or not. In which case, humour me - remove the rear wheel, grease the dropouts inside and out wherever the axle and skewer touch. Replace the wheel and test on your favourite climb.
I rode a sportive last weekend, the first 2-3 hours were great.... no significant noise when climbing out of the saddle. However, the creaking re-appeared and by the end it was creating a proper racket
Any ideas?
It's predominantly out of the saddle , albeit not exclusively. Its also intermittent without any pattern of why it occurs. Greasing the dropouts and axle was one of this first things I did when this bullshit started a year ago.... But I'll give it another go
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Try this. Remove the rear derailleur hanger and grease the interface between this and the drop out. I had an awful clicking on one of my bikes that I thought was the bottom bracket, then one of the pedals, and it turned out this was the source of the noise."an original thinker… the intellectual heir of Galileo and Einstein… suspicious of orthodoxy - any orthodoxy… He relishes all forms of ontological argument": jane90.0
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[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19635512#p19635512]BenderRodriguez[/url] wrote:Try this. Remove the rear derailleur hanger and grease the interface between this and the drop out. I had an awful clicking on one of my bikes that I thought was the bottom bracket, then one of the pedals, and it turned out this was the source of the noise.
I greased the hell out of the dropouts and springs. It almost solved it! Just a little ticking but Its a thousand times better than before. Thanks so much for this.
I'm holding off saying its totally resolved because the swine has a habit of lulling me into a false sense of security.0
