weightings for KOM jersey

specialgueststar

Thought this for a while. Should the KOM points not be weighted more in favour of those higher in the GC. If you can climb it seems that with some very strategic riding you can gain good points but be hours down on the GC ie do two climbs then wait for the burger and chips group - every day . Come last in the tt and play the percentage game on all other stages

Not sure how to implement it though!!

greasedscotsman

I wonder if you could change the KOM completely. Rather than do it on points, do it on Strava times instead. A GC of all the times on all the classified climbs.

JackTar

This. Would be easy to implement, just do what they have at the World's

greasedscotsman wrote:

I wonder if you could change the KOM completely. Rather than do it on points, do it on Strava times instead. A GC of all the times on all the classified climbs.

rick_chasey

Meh 8/10 you'd get overall winner winning KOM.

It's a competition to liven things up - not actually a way to identify the best climber.

greasedscotsman

Would you though? Think it depends on how the riders decide to race it. And why shouldn't it be a competition for the best climber? Think the only problem would be how it's shown on the TV. Don't think it would work well there.

DeVlaeminck

greasedscotsman wrote:

Would you though? Think it depends on how the riders decide to race it. And why shouldn't it be a competition for the best climber? Think the only problem would be how it's shown on the TV. Don't think it would work well there.

As Rick says though often it would be the overall winner winning it or if not someone else very high on GC - it'd become an afterthought for them and as such an irrelevance. At least at the moment it is usually important for the guys going for it so that makes it worth watching.

ben@31

greasedscotsman wrote:

I wonder if you could change the KOM completely. Rather than do it on points, do it on Strava times instead. A GC of all the times on all the classified climbs.

I always wondered how the tour KOM works? Is it first past the post rather than fastest time up the mountain?
So if its first past the post and theres a couple of mountains 100km into a stage, you have to be up front the entire stage even on the flat bits?
I take it climbing specialists like Virenque would take it easy on the flat stages and time trials leading upto and after the Alps / Pyrenees stages?

greasedscotsman

DeVlaeminck wrote:

As Rick says though often it would be the overall winner winning it or if not someone else very high on GC - it'd become an afterthought for them and as such an irrelevance. At least at the moment it is usually important for the guys going for it so that makes it worth watching.

I think it's a bit of an irrelevance anyway. Look what happened at the Giro yesterday. Astana gave it up just to give Aru another stage win. At least try something else. And make it relevant something a lot of cyclist use nowadays. Oh well, didn't think anyone would go for it.

FJS

ben@31 wrote:

I always wondered how the tour KOM works? Is it first past the post rather than fastest time up the mountain?
So if its first past the post and theres a couple of mountains 100km into a stage, you have to be up front the entire stage even on the flat bits?
I take it climbing specialists like Virenque would take it easy on the flat stages and time trials leading upto and after the Alps / Pyrenees stages?

Yes, FPTP
Yes, it often means those aiming for the KOM get into early breakaway groups, even if the first bits are flat
Yes (Although Virenque is not the best example, as he also aimed at a good placing in the overall. Charteau in 2010 is a better example of a KOM winner low down in the general classification)

FJS

DeVlaeminck wrote:

greasedscotsman wrote:

Would you though? Think it depends on how the riders decide to race it. And why shouldn't it be a competition for the best climber? Think the only problem would be how it's shown on the TV. Don't think it would work well there.

As Rick says though often it would be the overall winner winning it or if not someone else very high on GC - it'd become an afterthought for them and as such an irrelevance. At least at the moment it is usually important for the guys going for it so that makes it worth watching.

I think on the whole it's an interesting idea, but to make it work on TV you need lots of instantly available data and on-screen graphics (something to try out for California?). It would be interesting to see what effect it would have on race dynamics. For one, it would discourage breakaways - no ppoint being in a breakaway all day to get points when you just need to race up some hills as fast as possible and recover in the bunch afterwards. But on the whole I agree - it would probably be taken even less seriously by those winning it than now. And, once the first mountains have been and time differences have built up, having categorised little hills wouldn't make sense anymore.

top_bhoy

How do you get riders who aren't interested, interested? Time is the critical factor for the big GC boys.

In addition to awarding points at the top of each mountain, award time bonuses. The higher category the mountain, the greater the time bonus. Could make for some interesting early race racing and tactics.

t4tomo

Needs to stay as it is as it encourages breakaways on the mountain stages. If you went to strava times you'd get a very slow big peloton riding along the valleys and a bit of sprint up each hill.

mididoctors

keep tweaking it...silly small points on minor climbs then massive ones on long mountain stages encouraging big long breakaways in the mountain stages... maybe double points on the 2nd to last climb rather than last.. or mega points on the HdG and cima coppi types..by mega I mean mega

dunno

No_Ta_Doctor

t4tomo wrote:

Needs to stay as it is as it encourages breakaways on the mountain stages. If you went to strava times you'd get a very slow big peloton riding along the valleys and a bit of sprint up each hill.

Hmmm... Isn't the chance of a mountain stage win enough to encourage a breakaway?

Personally, I don't think they give us much, except the almost always forlorn hope that they'll somehow manage to stay away.

Contrast that with the spectacle of the best grimpeurs in the peloton savaging the GC teams' mountain trains in a straight race to the top....

Though perhaps it would be best as a race within a race, with a start of climb and finish of climb, all the peloton start together, except the break...