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Fox owners comments/opions.

Clockworkmark31Clockworkmark31 Posts: 1,053
edited June 2015 in MTB general
Evening all,

I currently have Fox Float EVO CTD, 100mm travel (650b 14/15 model).

Understanding now that these are basic forks having spoke with MOJO today. Getting sick of small bumps being like a thud and diving under braking.

Have been reading about the new FIT4 cartridge and it sounds good, MOJO say it will be a vast improvement over what I have and will be the biggest bang for buck etc. To have this done will cost me less than £300 including a full service.

Has anyone demo'd the new FIT4 cartridge, or just how good are the 36s? I believe its almost the same cartridge as the RS2?

I know I could sell these forks and put the money to buying new forks, or I could keep searching the bid sites for a bargain. But I know the history of these forks, and for less than £300 for a full service and upgrade for what should be better than REBAs sounds like a bargain.

Was wanting peoples thoughts or experiences of the new cartridge before I box them up.

Thanks
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  • RockmonkeySCRockmonkeySC Posts: 15,247
    Sell your fork and it will only cost you around £100 extra for a new Reba.
    I have had a couple sets of Fox forks, they were OK but the maintenence schedule is ridiculous compared to Rockshox, Marzocchi need even less then Rockshox.
  • FerralsFerrals Posts: 785
    I was reading about the new 2016 fox stuff and service intervals are up from 30hrs to 120hrs. I think this is due to better seals? In which case maybe new damper and new seals would up the service intervals?
  • Clockworkmark31Clockworkmark31 Posts: 1,053
    Thanks I know service intervals are more frequent on FOX.

    Looking at this from a performance view.

    I know REBAs are good but this cartridge is meant to bring them to a higher level of performance over REBAs, this is why I am curious to thoughts from someone who has demo'd them or has them or upgraded already.

    Changing forks means a new headset and wheel for me, currently my Fox is straight and 9mm QR, all current model forks (looking at the usual online stores) seem to be tapered and maxxels or through bolt what ever they are calling them. So even though a new 2015 reba looks cheap, I would need a new headset and wheel.
  • lawmanlawman Posts: 6,868
    Had a quick spin on some 2016 Fox 34's and they felt really, really good. My 36's are also great and I liked my 2011 32's as well, aside from the flex. I think it'd be a decent upgrade to the FIT4 cartridge tbh, worth going for over a Reba IMO.

  • Clockworkmark31Clockworkmark31 Posts: 1,053
    lawman wrote:
    Had a quick spin on some 2016 Fox 34's and they felt really, really good. My 36's are also great and I liked my 2011 32's as well, aside from the flex. I think it'd be a decent upgrade to the FIT4 cartridge tbh, worth going for over a Reba IMO.

    Thanks, this sort of mirrors what MOJO were saying (you don't work for them do you haha).

    What sort of difference did you notice from the 32s? Marginal improvement, huge? I haven't tried any big boys suspension so only have my old reba RL dual airs to compare to.
  • lawmanlawman Posts: 6,868
    lawman wrote:
    Had a quick spin on some 2016 Fox 34's and they felt really, really good. My 36's are also great and I liked my 2011 32's as well, aside from the flex. I think it'd be a decent upgrade to the FIT4 cartridge tbh, worth going for over a Reba IMO.

    Thanks, this sort of mirrors what MOJO were saying (you don't work for them do you haha).

    What sort of difference did you notice from the 32s? Marginal improvement, huge? I haven't tried any big boys suspension so only have my old reba RL dual airs to compare to.

    My 32's were 150mm travel so they flexed quite badly but 100mm forks should be fine. Any damper is big improvement on the Open bath EVO system Fox use on entry level forks, so the new FIT4 will be a big improvement.

    If I worked for Mojo I'd have a new 34 and DPS shock already but sadly I don't! :lol:

  • Clockworkmark31Clockworkmark31 Posts: 1,053
    lawman wrote:
    lawman wrote:
    Had a quick spin on some 2016 Fox 34's and they felt really, really good. My 36's are also great and I liked my 2011 32's as well, aside from the flex. I think it'd be a decent upgrade to the FIT4 cartridge tbh, worth going for over a Reba IMO.

    Thanks, this sort of mirrors what MOJO were saying (you don't work for them do you haha).

    What sort of difference did you notice from the 32s? Marginal improvement, huge? I haven't tried any big boys suspension so only have my old reba RL dual airs to compare to.

    My 32's were 150mm travel so they flexed quite badly but 100mm forks should be fine. Any damper is big improvement on the Open bath EVO system Fox use on entry level forks, so the new FIT4 will be a big improvement.

    If I worked for Mojo I'd have a new 34 and DPS shock already but sadly I don't! :lol:

    Thanks I hear what you are saying though. In my mind I was comparing my forks to REBAs, as that is all I had in the past to compare against, other than budget forks. The guys at MOJO clearly pointed out my fork was basic compared to a REBA (hard to understand on my part as a FOX cost more and seems to be the desired). But they are highlighting the same positives that you are mentioning.

    How did you find small bump compliance and braking or heavy braking on the new FIT4? These are my biggest issues with the entry fox fork. If these issues disappear then I am sending them off for upgrade.

    If I tap on the front brake atm I nose dive or bottom out and I haven't even put M785 brakes on yet (that would be interesting) and small bumps just don't seem to entertain the forks.

    Sorry for all the questions, but this is the cheaper/maybe better route and I am wanting thoughts before I spend the cash. I could even buy the damper unit for £162 and fit it myself even more of a saving. But I am trying to justify the best upgrade for myself........buy right, buy once.
  • RockmonkeySCRockmonkeySC Posts: 15,247
    I don't understand why Fox are so much more expensive than Rockshox or Marzocchi. They aren't any better, they ride different so people have their preferences. Fox feel more plush but I prefer Marzocchi's damping and build quality.
    I certainly couldn't justify the cost of a 36 over a Rockshox Pike or Marzocchi 350ncr.
  • oxomanoxoman Posts: 9,306
    Hi Clockwork, silly question they are set up correctly I assume. I have the float CTD performance 120,s on my Anthem and they seemed harsh until somebody in the know set them up for me in terms of rebound and correct sag etc, transformed the way the bike handled. Not happy with the time between maintenance, but will run forks until they give problems or the bike gets its annual service.
    Too many bikes according to Mrs O.
  • lawmanlawman Posts: 6,868
    How did you find small bump compliance and braking or heavy braking on the new FIT4? These are my biggest issues with the entry fox fork. If these issues disappear then I am sending them off for upgrade.

    If I tap on the front brake atm I nose dive or bottom out and I haven't even put M785 brakes on yet (that would be interesting) and small bumps just don't seem to entertain the forks.

    Sorry for all the questions, but this is the cheaper/maybe better route and I am wanting thoughts before I spend the cash. I could even buy the damper unit for £162 and fit it myself even more of a saving. But I am trying to justify the best upgrade for myself........buy right, buy once.

    The FIT4 has adjustable low-speed compression damping in the open mode, which allows you to increase the damping to support the fork under braking or on steep terrainso it doesn't dive as much. It's almost always a trade off though; too much low speed compression and the forks will become harsh on small bumps, too little and the fork dives but feels smoother over bumps so it's about finding the best compromise. On my new Fox 36's which have a similar low-speed adjuster, I've been able to find a pretty good spot where small bump sensitivity is good and I don't have a huge amount of brake dive. As others have said it can take a while to tune to preference but at least you have the option to do so. You will notice a big improvement, Evolution series fox forks are for want of a better word shite, but the FIT cartridges are much, much better. Giving the fork a service and fitting Fox's low-friction seals and new oil will also help massively with small bump sensitivity and it's worth keeping on top of keeping the seals and foam rings clean and lubricated as any dryness or grime will significantly reduce the forks suppleness.

  • FerralsFerrals Posts: 785
    I don't understand why Fox are so much more expensive than Rockshox or Marzocchi. They aren't any better, they ride different so people have their preferences. Fox feel more plush but I prefer Marzocchi's damping and build quality.
    I certainly couldn't justify the cost of a 36 over a Rockshox Pike or Marzocchi 350ncr.

    In terms of top end XC forks price wise it's much of a muchness: 2016 Fox Factory 32's are £730, DT swiss ODl is the same, Mazocchi a bit more expensive at £830 (rrp £950) and Rockshox SIDs you can get cheaper at £650 (though the rrp is over £900).
  • FerralsFerrals Posts: 785
    random thought, given that mid-top end forks cost the same as a lower end mtb, are there places where you can test forks on your current bike before buying? guess it would be a bit of a faff but it would be pretty cool. I'd be dubious paying north of £500 without testing anyway!
  • lawmanlawman Posts: 6,868
    Ferrals wrote:
    random thought, given that mid-top end forks cost the same as a lower end mtb, are there places where you can test forks on your current bike before buying? guess it would be a bit of a faff but it would be pretty cool. I'd be dubious paying north of £500 without testing anyway!

    Fox have test centres around the UK where you can try certain forks, usually 34's or 36's though.

  • paul.skibumpaul.skibum Posts: 4,068
    I had the much maligned Fox 34 Evo's on my Bronson and they were hateful, horrendous pieces of under engineered, poorly thought out censored . I looked at ways to improve them and the only options seemed to cost the same as a set of Pikes with promises of only minor improvements to the problems they caused out on the trail (no small bump, ramping up on repeat hits, diving on big hits, numb hands).

    I personally would not give Fox any money for any of their products after having had these 34's. I don't actually care how many good reviews I hear or read of the 36's or new 34's I refuse to give them any more money.
    Closet jockey wheel pimp censored .
  • BloggingFitBloggingFit Posts: 919
    I would be reluctant to ride on anything else compared to my Fox 36 at the moment. Even my Pike feels inferior and almost harsh in comparison now.
    Bird Aeris : Trek Remedy 9.9 29er : Trek Procaliber 9.8 SL
  • Clockworkmark31Clockworkmark31 Posts: 1,053
    oxoman wrote:
    Hi Clockwork, silly question they are set up correctly I assume. I have the float CTD performance 120,s on my Anthem and they seemed harsh until somebody in the know set them up for me in terms of rebound and correct sag etc, transformed the way the bike handled. Not happy with the time between maintenance, but will run forks until they give problems or the bike gets its annual service.

    Hi OXO,

    I would like to think that I have set them up correct. Usually run 20-25% sag (set up with rebound off and CTD in D mode) then I have the rebound 4 clicks from the slowest option. Given my weight this seems to be the best setup I can manage. Then adjust CTD as necessary. Trail is firm and decent is too soft IMO.
  • Clockworkmark31Clockworkmark31 Posts: 1,053
    lawman wrote:
    How did you find small bump compliance and braking or heavy braking on the new FIT4? These are my biggest issues with the entry fox fork. If these issues disappear then I am sending them off for upgrade.

    If I tap on the front brake atm I nose dive or bottom out and I haven't even put M785 brakes on yet (that would be interesting) and small bumps just don't seem to entertain the forks.

    Sorry for all the questions, but this is the cheaper/maybe better route and I am wanting thoughts before I spend the cash. I could even buy the damper unit for £162 and fit it myself even more of a saving. But I am trying to justify the best upgrade for myself........buy right, buy once.

    The FIT4 has adjustable low-speed compression damping in the open mode, which allows you to increase the damping to support the fork under braking or on steep terrainso it doesn't dive as much. It's almost always a trade off though; too much low speed compression and the forks will become harsh on small bumps, too little and the fork dives but feels smoother over bumps so it's about finding the best compromise. On my new Fox 36's which have a similar low-speed adjuster, I've been able to find a pretty good spot where small bump sensitivity is good and I don't have a huge amount of brake dive. As others have said it can take a while to tune to preference but at least you have the option to do so. You will notice a big improvement, Evolution series fox forks are for want of a better word shite, but the FIT cartridges are much, much better. Giving the fork a service and fitting Fox's low-friction seals and new oil will also help massively with small bump sensitivity and it's worth keeping on top of keeping the seals and foam rings clean and lubricated as any dryness or grime will significantly reduce the forks suppleness.


    Yeah kind of finding out now that the Evolutions are a POS and there I was being naive when I got the bike thinking wow Fox forks they must be good....oh well.

    Now I aren't a fan boy of any forks as long as they do what they should. Think fitting the FIT cartridge and new low friction seals and the new oil will be the cheapest option for me.

    What are the differences roughly between evolution and factory forks? Cartridge, kashima? Wouldn't have thought the air spring would be different.

    I don't know how a pike or the 36s feel, but the more I dig into reviews on FIT4 they compare it to them or better.
  • JayKay3000JayKay3000 Posts: 163
    I don't like my evos up front on my trance. I'm saving for some rockshox too. I thought, like most people fox were the intel of mtb. It really does depend on the price range, but I enjoyed my simpler rockshox on my old bike.

    I've not ridden the bike in anger for a few months so that could change. They felt better after a service and tires make a big difference to how your bike rides. Just took off my winter hans dampfs for my worn nobby nics and hadling is like night and day. Shocks still suck a bit.
  • Dick ScruttockDick Scruttock Posts: 2,533
    Pikes well engineered, thats a laugh.
  • RockmonkeySCRockmonkeySC Posts: 15,247
    Pikes well engineered, thats a laugh.

    Like most things, a great design compromised for mass production. There seem to be good Pikes and bad Pikes, quality seems a bit variable. They are so much cheaper that Fox that I would buy the Pike and get it tuned.
  • Dick ScruttockDick Scruttock Posts: 2,533
    Pikes well engineered, thats a laugh.

    Like most things, a great design compromised for mass production. There seem to be good Pikes and bad Pikes, quality seems a bit variable. They are so much cheaper that Fox that I would buy the Pike and get it tuned.

    RS are basically moving to fully disposable forks as if you wear the stanchions replacement bushing are not available so you basically throw away the whole fork as a new one would be cheaper than new lowers and a new CSU.
  • RockmonkeySCRockmonkeySC Posts: 15,247
    Pikes well engineered, thats a laugh.

    Like most things, a great design compromised for mass production. There seem to be good Pikes and bad Pikes, quality seems a bit variable. They are so much cheaper that Fox that I would buy the Pike and get it tuned.

    RS are basically moving to fully disposable forks as if you wear the stanchions replacement bushing are not available so you basically throw away the whole fork as a new one would be cheaper than new lowers and a new CSU.

    Or you send them to TF tuned who will make and fit new bushings. I forget the price but it's only well under £150 including a full service. I just had it done on my 2013 BoXXers which I somehow completely forgot about ever servicing although I give my XC fork a lower lube every other month.
  • Antm81Antm81 Posts: 1,406
    I'm no fox fan, didn't like the evolution series 32s that came on my Trance, however I'll admit certain things seem to have more quality such as the maxle (shimano I believe) and the things like the air valve cover and ctd lever had a nice feel. But they do cost far too much combed to what the RS equivalents can be picked up for.
  • RockmonkeySCRockmonkeySC Posts: 15,247
    Having seen the internals of an X Fusion shock (and I work in precision CNC) I would say they are extremely well made forks. The components appear to be precision parts with a quality finish and fit. Once they get their dampers right they could be one of the best. They aren't far off now.
  • Clockworkmark31Clockworkmark31 Posts: 1,053
    Don't think I am any clearer on a decision. Upgrade makes financial sense and if the yields are good like people are saying then win win.......do I bite the bullet and see the results for myself or hold off, save some more money for some new forks with the maxle system and get the mavic rims I am wanting. If I wanted to get a tapered fork what would be involved with the headset?
  • Antm81Antm81 Posts: 1,406
    Depends on your head tube but possibly just a new lower headset. Google the cane creek headset finder and input frame, new forks etc and input will tell you what type of headset is needed
  • FerralsFerrals Posts: 785
    Antm81 wrote:
    I'm no fox fan .... however I'll admit certain things seem to have more quality such as the maxle (shimano I believe)

    The RS Maxle is the biggest piece of cheese. I've had to re file the edge about three times as it keeps rounding off or bending.

    However both RS and Fox are now offering allen bolt through axles which personally i like the idea of better and if mine gets too much worse I will consider buying one.
  • RockmonkeySCRockmonkeySC Posts: 15,247
    Rockshox have finally changed the maxle with a much better version.
    http://www.competitivecyclist.com/image ... 01K/BK.jpg
  • Clockworkmark31Clockworkmark31 Posts: 1,053
    Without starting a new thread was reading about the SKF low friction seals in MBUK and thought I need them. They look a slight green color in MBUK but most of the online search ones appear black, is there a difference. And how would I know if I have them already, mine do have SKF stamped on them but I wouldn't call them low friction.
  • RockmonkeySCRockmonkeySC Posts: 15,247
    SKF make loads of different seals. My SKF low friction seals are green and cost around £30 at trade cost (I have an SKF account at work) so retail would be around £70ish.
    Low friction seals have much more effect than kashima coating.
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